The Cheap Aproach - Possible?

[terodox]

Hello All!

I've posted a few times while building out my RIMS toolbox, but I'm preparing to move inside and go all electric (and possibly HERMS, although not yet decided on that).

ebrewsupply.com has 1 PID 30a BIAB DIY kits. They support a single heating element. My question is this: can I utilize this kit, splitting after the SSR to a selector switch with two elements. One being the HLT and one the BK. I have zero intention of running both at the same time, and hence I don't feel the need to go with a whole hog with a 2 PID and 2 SSR setup.

I'm fairly certain it should be possible, but I want to get a more knowledgeable opinion before I pull the trigger.

Thanks guys!

 

[Brumateur]

It's. possible however your selector switch should be at least 25A rated or you need a second contactor and low amp selector switch to control two contactors.
Also you will need a second rhermoprobe and a selector switch to choose which one is connected to PID.

 

[terodox]

The thermoprobe situation is a manual solution, two thermowells, and move the probe.

I understand the 25A rating for the selector switch, but why do I need a second selector and contact?

The switch will be on the hot side of the circuit so shouldn't that be all I need?

 

[Brumateur]

You need either 25+ Amp selector switch or low amp selector switch plus contactor.

 

[atoughram]

I'm electrifying my BK with one of these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140553987088?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

25a rated switches are expensive - Why not two cheap SSR's and low power rated switch?

 

[Bobby_M]

There's no reason you have to move the sensor to the boil kettle. You'll just put the PID into manual mode for the boil and it will show you the temperature of the room when the HLT is empty. I suppose it's a novelty to watch the temp rise to boiling, but that gets old quick.

Cheapest? Just shut the power down, unplug HLT element and plug in BK element. Re-energize the panel.

 

[terodox]

Bobby. I like the way you think. That IS the cheapest, and probably the way I'm going to go.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm electrifying my BK with one of these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140553987088?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

25a rated switches are expensive - Why not two cheap SSR's and low power rated switch?

Because that doesn't ensure that both legs to the disabled element are cold. Also, cheap SSRs fail closed and then you are pulling 40 amps. The breaker should trip, but it's not ideal.

 

[jCOSbrew]

that kit already includes 2 qty 40 amp contactors. You could buy 1 extra or just skip the main input power contactor in your build.

You will also want a 3-way switch to select BK, OFF, or HLT.

 

[atoughram]

Also, cheap SSRs fail closed and then you are pulling 40 amps. The breaker should trip, but it's not ideal.

Not arguing, but what types of SSR's do you consider "Cheap"?

 

[Brumateur]

Not arguing, but what types of SSR's do you consider "Cheap"?

This one for example www.ebay.com/itm/New-Solid-State-Relays-SSR-AC24V-AC480V-40A-3-32VDC-D4840-NEW-DC-AC-/331084563189

 

[atoughram]

This one for example www.ebay.com/itm/New-Solid-State-Relays-SSR-AC24V-AC480V-40A-3-32VDC-D4840-NEW-DC-AC-/331084563189

I'm still not trying to argue but does anyone have data on which brands are more reliable?

Or is it subjective?

I've used Crydom, Auber, and Fotek and never had a failure.

 

[Brumateur]

Actually It's the same SSR Auber selling.
There are many counterfeit Fotek SSR on Whatsoever.

 

[augiedoggy]

http://m.ebay.com/itm/281233498579?nav=SEARCH
Under $4 shipped...its what I'm using with no issues.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm still not trying to argue but does anyone have data on which brands are more reliable?

Or is it subjective?

I've used Crydom, Auber, and Fotek and never had a failure.

The cheaper ones are more likely to be bought by those who wire them incorrectly or without properly connected heat sinks this makes the failure rate of the cheap ones seem higher than they really are... I bought three and they all work perfect.
You will see threads were people go through three of them before learning the error was theirs and rarely do they report back admitting it.

 

[Bobby_M]

Not arguing, but what types of SSR's do you consider "Cheap"?

All of the ones we commonly buy can fail and when they do, it's common to fail in the "on" position. I'm not making an argument for buying higher quality SSRs but rather not to ever rely on the SSR to ensure that your elements are OFF when swapping plugs, or draining tanks.

 

[augiedoggy]

All of the ones we commonly buy can fail and when they do, it's common to fail in the "on" position. I'm not making an argument for buying higher quality SSRs but rather not to ever rely on the SSR to ensure that your elements are OFF when swapping plugs, or draining tanks.

another reason a main selector switch is a good idea along with a light to indicate when the element is powered...

 

[jeffmeh]

another reason a main selector switch is a good idea along with a light to indicate when the element is powered...

Or a dedicated, switched, DPST, NO, contactor for both hot legs before the element, rather than a main power switched contactor, or both. The key is to make sure one has a means to insure that for the element power, off means off, and an SSR alone cannot do that.

 

[augiedoggy]

Or a dedicated, switched, DPST, NO, contactor for both hot legs before the element, rather than a main power switched contactor, or both. The key is to make sure one has a means to insure that for the element power, off means off, and an SSR alone cannot do that.

that is what I meant although I didnt explain it well...
I use a three position on/off/on switch to control two relays... one for each ssr/ element this way only one element can be powered at a time of course as well... all together this adds about $20 to the total cost of the build but worth its weight in gold for safety.