The bottle fermentation dilmena : how do I avoid the second cloudy glass of beer?

[mangler]

I own a decent sized kegging system, and I keg most of the beer I have brewed so far. But I brew a few festabrew kits that have 6.5 gallons of finished beer, so it is handy to keg 5 gallons and bottle the rest, with priming sugar.

The bottles (1l flip top) come out fine (always well carbonated, no oxygen issues), but the second pint from the bottle is always quite cloudy, no matter how carefully I pour. Is there a trick to make the deposit "stick" to the bottom? Gelatin? I would not mind a little harder clean up, if it meant I could get a decently clear second glass out of each bottle.

 

[Mexibilly]

I would get a bigger glass ��

 

[markstache]

I usually bottle in 22oz crown cap bottles. I pour two glasses immediately after opening the bottle. Since bottles are coming out the fridge, allowing the second glass to warm up on counter while I drink the first one isn't a big deal as the temperature after 30 minutes is probably better anyway.

 

[ChelisHubby]

I also use 22s when I bottle but my mugs are 24 so it is no problem. Most of my home brews can warm up for a while and still taste damned good!

 

[MaxStout]

Bigger drinking vessels.

 

[iijakii]

Those are pretty big drinking vessels alright.

 

[mangler]

No matter the size of the drinking vessel, It would get cloudy near the end of the pour (because of the bottle fermentation yeast deposit).

What I am asking is if there is something I could mix in that would make the deposit stick to the bottom of the bottle so I can easily avoid it without wasting beer.

 

[slym2none]

Time, and temperature.

3 days in the fridge compacts the bottle-trub, and some yeasts really compact better than others. I have used Nottingham a few times now, and I find that if properly chilled, I can up-end the bottle and not get any cloudiness in my glass.

 

[northwestcoast]

+1 on popping them in the fridge a few days before you want to drink them. It'll help any chill haze settle out as well.

But also... a bit of yeast in suspension never hurt anyone! Especially if you've already had a glass or two...

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Crash chilling and gelatine fining in the fermenter before bottling will result in a lot less sediment in the bottle. The longer you chill, the less sediment you'll get.

 

[gbx]

This is the single biggest reasons to kegs. If you aren't ready to for that kind of investment yet, there are yeasts that are better than others. Some of the british yeasts like wy1968 or wy1469 are incredible flocculators and form really tight cake on the bottom of a bottles. They are also taste decent with some the yeast in suspension (I really dislike the taste of any of the dry yeasts if they are not clear). In dry ale yeasts, nottingham or S04 are probably your best bets. US05 is my favourite dry yeast but I wouldn't attempt to bottle condition with it as its too dusty. The other thing you can do is pour it all in one go into a pitcher or a growler.

 

[Resonator]

Use smaller bottles or bigger glasses.

You disturb the bottles yeast after the first pour. Ideally you want to pour the whole beer in one tip of the bottle and stop before the yeast comes out. There should be about 1/4" of beer and yeast left after the pour.

 

[mangler]

OK, I get it now. I do like my 2 pint bottles, but they do pose a bottle tipping problem, at least with my "normal glasses".

I guess I'll get my skull crushers out for the next bottle pour, and see if it helps!

 

[ol-hazza]

Crash chilling and gelatine fining in the fermenter before bottling will result in a lot less sediment in the bottle. The longer you chill, the less sediment you'll get.

I second this, and also believe that gelatin helps to stick the sediment to the bottom of the bottle.

Another point to add which I don't think has been raised is to leave the last 1/2 oz of beer in the bottle.

*shudders at the waste of sweet sweet beer*

 

[DurtyChemist]

Give gelatin a shot and see how it goes or use a Beergun. Carbonate in the keg then bottle from the keg once it's how you want it and you won't have to worry.

 

[andrewmaixner]

There has to be some trick, because I've seen multiple commercial beers where the conditioning yeast sticks to the bottom like glue. An example is a case of Boulevard Irish Ale I had a few years ago -- zero sediment in pour, lots stuck to bottle.

(Boulevard Irish Ale made me unable to drink smithwicks, by the way. It's that much better)

 

[Resonator]

There has to be some trick, because I've seen multiple commercial beers where the conditioning yeast sticks to the bottom like glue. An example is a case of Boulevard Irish Ale I had a few years ago -- zero sediment in pour, lots stuck to bottle.

Lots of time sitting for it to compact?
Maybe the type of yeast used?

 

[ba-brewer]

Get one of these for your 6.5gal batches.
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/1-GALLON-COMPACT-BALL-LOCK-KEG-P3984.aspx

or

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/6-GALLON-COMPACT-BALL-LOCK-KEG--P3985.aspx

 

[WrQth]

Filter it with .5 micron to remove your fermentation yeast then add Danstar CBC-1 dry yeast in racking bucket with priming suger to do the bottle conditioning, very flocculant and sticks to the bottom well.

 

[gbx]

Filter it with .5 micron to remove your fermentation yeast then add Danstar CBC-1 dry yeast in racking bucket with priming suger to do the bottle conditioning, very flocculant and sticks to the bottom well.

no, just use a better flocculating yeast like wy1968 for primary fermentation, leave it in the primary a few extra days until it drops clear and be careful not to rack any sediment in when bottling.

 

[MaxStout]

Pouring technique can reduce the amount of yeast that's disturbed. Carefully tip the bottle so that the beer is coming out in a smooth stream. Too much downward angle and air sucks inside making it go glug glug glug, which agitates the yeast on the bottom.

 

[gnef]

A more tedious method would be to force carb in a second keg, and then bottle from the keg. I have a beergun, and some have built their own setups, or you can also use a counter pressure bottling setup. If you cleared in the keg first, you could have debri-free bottles.

 

[slym2none]

No kegging. This is about bottles only. Hence "bottle fermentation" in the thread title.

 

[Bellybuster]

Bottle in smaller bottles, problem solved.......thank you. Bask in my awesomeness.

Kidding, this is exactly why I went to kegs, there is no full solution.

 

[Singletrack]

There has to be some trick, because I've seen multiple commercial beers where the conditioning yeast sticks to the bottom like glue.

I agree that there is a trick used by some breweries. I suspect some use a different yeast for conditioning than the one used for fermentation based on stickability coefficient. Also, maybe fresh yeast is stickier?

I think a lot of the problem is excess trub, not conditioning yeast. I had fewer issues when I used a secondary, I think.

Apparently, I need to start cold crashing the primary before racking. I'm not going back to a secondary.

 

[blizz81]

Pouring technique can reduce the amount of yeast that's disturbed. Carefully tip the bottle so that the beer is coming out in a smooth stream. Too much downward angle and air sucks inside making it go glug glug glug, which agitates the yeast on the bottom.

That and if it's a bigger bottle going into more than one glass, I'll hold the bottle as horizontal as possible while I grab the second glass. Between this and crashing in the fridge longer, controlling sediment is generally pretty easy.

 

[slym2none]

Bottle in smaller bottles, problem solved.......thank you. Bask in my awesomeness.

Kidding, this is exactly why I went to kegs, there is no full solution.

This isn't about kegging. This is about bottles only. Hence "bottle fermentation" in the thread title.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

I have always had nice tight little cakes in the bottom of my bottles. No finings. Up until recently I have done all my batches bottle conditioned. I send the wort to the fermenter through a SS seive to remove the kettle trub (no finings, no whirlpool) I use an autosiphon stuck at the bottom of the fermenter to transfer to the bottling bucket. At this point there is virtually no sediment in the batch, so any sediment in the bottle is from conditioning. I do 4 weeks primary, no secondary, 4 weeks bottle conditioning and 24-48 hours chilling. My bottles can be compeltely upended with no sediment transferred to the glass. All my bottles are 12OZ, so they go into the glass in one pour. I am confident that if I were to do 22 OZ bottles the same way I could do multiple pours without sediment. That's how I roll.

(I really like a big malty blond with tight little cakes)

 

[andrewmaixner]

I have always had nice tight little cakes in the bottom of my bottles. No finings. Up until recently I have done all my batches bottle conditioned. I send the wort to the fermenter through a SS seive to remove the kettle trub (no finings, no whirlpool) I use an autosiphon stuck at the bottom of the fermenter to transfer to the bottling bucket. At this point there is virtually no sediment in the batch, so any sediment in the bottle is from conditioning. I do 4 weeks primary, no secondary, 4 weeks bottle conditioning and 24-48 hours chilling. My bottles can be compeltely upended with no sediment transferred to the glass. All my bottles are 12OZ, so they go into the glass in one pour.

No post-fermentation finings at all?
Which yeast is this with?

 

[slym2none]

No post-fermentation finings at all?
Which yeast is this with?

I only cold-crash, and I have found Nottingham gets very compact & dense. Like the poster above, I can up-end my bottles totally and not get any yeast into the glass.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

No post-fermentation finings at all?
Which yeast is this with?

This is independent of the yeast strain. My current ranch includes samples of the followings yeasts:
Nottingham
WLP002
WLP004
WLP028
WLP775