The $3.41 Challenge - Lobuck

[jezter6]

bird: why are you leaning away from this?

drouillp: The point of not needing BJCP is that this isn't a style competition. It's just for fun, maybe a little prize money. It's not really a 'who made the best beer' it's a thinking game to see what you can come up with on the cheap. Really good but expensive beer defeats the entire point of the 'cheap brew 2007' competition. Sure, you could open it up to any and every beer, get hundreds of entries, but when 95% of the beers are not what the game was about, it's lost the focus.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

Here's the thread for the "Rules Committee"

The 2007 Lobuck Homebrew Challenge

I think bird is just getting intimidated by the confusing nature of a very long thread. Eventually the rules will be reduced to a simple word document that will be very easy to understand. In the mean time, I can't really blame him for being skeptical.

As for a BJCP, I think it'd be great to bring in their tasting expertise. I think they'd be able to more or less turn off that "style" portion of their brain and just focus on taste. But it's probably not required. We'll see what happens when we look for volunteer judges.

 

[the_bird]

Honestly, though, I have no real desire to make a $1.35/gallon batch of beer. Maybe I'm not clever enough, but basically cutting my cost of ingredients by 60%? If you can make something tasty at that price point, bully to you.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

I think brewers fall into two categories- those who do it so they can brew what they like, and those who seek out a challenge.

I don't think the beers are going to be bad. I think the final results are going to surprise a LOT of people with how tasty the final products really are. This may cause people to rethink the currently-common procedure of just dumping in a ton of DME/LME to produce a strong beer. I think people like to believe that a complex, expensive beer is the only way to get a good beer. Some brewers seem to rely on "brute force" of ingredients rather than focusing on the delicate balance that those ingredients play upon one another. In short, I think that taking this challenge will make you into a better brewer.

Of course, I could be wrong.

 

[Orfy]

I don't think my $1.34 recipe will make bad beer. I think it'll probably be a lot better than BMC.

If I can get the ingredients here for a similar cost I think I'll try it.

Another consideration.

Can I dry hop a beer then rack my "****" beer onto that yeast cake and hops?

 

[Torchiest]

Can I dry hop a beer then rack my "****" beer onto that yeasy ckae and hops?

Hey, I think you're getting a little too clever for your own good. On that note, if we don't count starters, or leftovers on the yeast cake, you could make a 2 gallon starter, or leave a few gallons of your last beer on the cake, and really "save" money. :cross:

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

I think some brewers are going to be incredibly astonished when they take a sip and their eyes get big and they think to themselves, "Holy cow... this is cheaper than water!"

As for adding the dry hoppings and yeast to your **** beer.... I dunno. On the one hand, that is consistent with the challenge of the competition since that's how the "big boys" would do it. On the other hand, it is inconsistent with the typical practices of most homebrewers who only do one batch at a time. So I would tend to say no, but I'd be willing to revisit the issue once the rulesmakers and judges were in place to consider the matter properly as a group.

Besides. How the heck would anybody be able to replicate that recipe??!!!!

 

[Orfy]

I have 4 brews on the go, so it is the way I'd normally make beer.

On any one day I normally Brew, rack from primary to secondary and keg.
I have session beers that go straight from primary to keg and bigger beers that go to secondary, so I normally have a yeast cake to use.

I think any homebrew method that is realistically achievable should be used. If it's a new or alternate method then I say all the better, You're talking about pushing brewers to use new and different methods to normal anyway to achieve a cheaper better beer.

 

[jezter6]

I would agree, except that you're adding ingredients that did cost you money in your last batch to this batch for nothing. The goal is cost, and we need to get a (somewhat) accurate cost of what this batch actually costs if I were to take your ingredients and replicate your beer. I can't do that without replicating your first beer you're pitching onto.

Personally, I think that means we should require new/unused yeast...but like toot, i'm torn over making that kind of rule change.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

well, maybe only allow it if the yeast cake came from the same beer that you are putting it into. In other words, if you made a barrel of **** beer, you can use the yeast cake from the **** beer for another round of **** beer.

Maybe...

 

[olllllo]

Reusing yeast is a process that ANY recipe can use, therefore the cost savings is not an indicator af anything particular to the recipe.

Selection of a strain and it's cost or whether to use dry or not is a critical factor in the recipe. I think the cost should apply, unless you're going lambic.

 

[Orfy]

KISS.....

Keep it simple "stupid" I'm just sounding off ideas.

I'd say use any method you want and estimate the cost
Like "toot" says. if you reuse the yeast then factor 1/3 cost. If you don't then use full cost. As for hops residue then any residual flavor is free, along with any unfermentable flavours in there.

 

[Brewpastor]

How does and should this be related to Toot's Lobuck challenge? It seems to be the same idea.

 

[jezter6]

It is the same idea, we just needed a thread specifically to discuss certain rules elements to be put together in a single place, as well as a place to discuss the competition in general terms.

 

[Brewpastor]

It is the same idea, we just needed a thread specifically to discuss certain rules elements to be put together in a single place, as well as a place to discuss the competition in general terms.

Then why not join the two so it is clearer, or at least ust the same contest name as a reference? I can merge them if it would be helpful.

 

[jezter6]

Actually, we split them *because* it was becoming difficult to keep rule discussion away from general discussion. The split was supposed to clarify.

Although I agree, the 2 threads should have smilar titles.

 

[Brewpastor]

I have taken the liberty of adding "- Lobuck" to this title to help others understand there is some connection here. If it is a problem I will gladly remove my addition.

 

[jezter6]

Thanks BP!
Maybe this should be moved to general, as it's no longer an 'extract' thing...

 

[Pedro-]

The point of not needing BJCP is that this isn't a style competition.

This was exactly why I mentioned a mission statement, I had previously thought this was for a specific style as well as being el cheapo.

As for not having a BJCP judge intentionally? I think this could be a mistake. If the opportunity arrives, such a judge might be able to pinpoint a taste in recipes that keep it just, "OK, but not all that great". If it was because of poor procedure, then the recipe isn't to blame! It could have been a dynomite recipe with pisspoor precedure and the recipe could be completely dismissed. On the contrary it could be from some specific ingredients and no matter what you do you will still have that "off flavor" to it. I say that in the spirit of discovering some very good tasting beer that is also very cheap.

Not to say someone who loaded a beer with DMS or diacetyl but had a great recipe should be considered by any means a winner, but that could be noted as to why the judges did not like the beer rather than simply stating, "I might drink it if it were at a friends house, but I wouldn't do it more than once".

Is this getting too techincal? Maybe. That's a question for the organizer, how deep this thing will go.

</rant> :cross:

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

drouillp. I agree with your assessment. I want the experience of a BJCP. There is NO WAY this is going to be some sort of pretentious competition, but it will require someone with a broad and experienced palate, particularly someone who can identify flaws and recognize off flavors and stuff. And more importantly, I want those people to be able to offer constructive criticism to all participants.

 

[dantodd]

the whole reason for BJCP guidelines is to ensure that you are comparing similar beers. To have stouts vs. ESBs vs. light lagers all in the same area is not very helpful.

I'd want to see the competition stay as an american lager competition.

As for BJCP judges, I think we should do everything we can to recruit them. They would actually have the experience to judge the beers and understand the beer beyond, "I really liked 'that one' best"


Heck... as long as you're at it we could just go all out and make it a multi-style competition (pick 3 or 4 styles) and seek BJCP sanctioning.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

The problem with a lager competition is that nobody would be able to refine or improve their recipe in time for an April 1 deadline.

Besides, as lame as this sounds, this is my first time organizing something like this over the internet and I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. If the results are positive, maybe it can be an annual thing.

 

[ALPS]

Sorry for jumping in here and not reading through 100+ posts...

...but I'm sure I could brew a 9% Belgian trippel for $2.11/ gallon.

I've bought grains and hops in bulk already so my costs, though they are estimates, are quite close:


12# Belgian Pils......North country malt.... $.70/lb ...................... $8.40
3# cane sugar .......grocery store ...........5# for 2 .....................$ 1.20
4 oz various hops....Hops Direct...............18#/ $75 ....................$ .96
Belgian yeast ........ free with a trappist beer ..............................n/a
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
............................5.5 gallons at 1.085 OG ...............................$10.56


Oh, LP gas is from the house so add on a buck or so and then brew some good, strong beer!!

 

[Pedro-]

the whole reason for BJCP guidelines is to ensure that you are comparing similar beers. To have stouts vs. ESBs vs. light lagers all in the same area is not very helpful.

Very true, but for all intensive purposes like I had said before I believe a BJCP would be most effective for detecting specific flaws be it recipe or procedure. Something to think about is if there are 5 or 6 absolutely amazing tasting beers, albiet completely different styles, there are still separate factors such as least expensive and ease of brew (i.e. in extract, concentrated boil, full boil, CT mashing, etc.)

As for BJCP judges, I think we should do everything we can to recruit them. They would actually have the experience to judge the beers and understand the beer beyond, "I really liked 'that one' best"

I absolutely agree.

Heck... as long as you're at it we could just go all out and make it a multi-style competition (pick 3 or 4 styles) and seek BJCP sanctioning.

This sounds great! I agree with toot's response though, there is not enough time for lagering, and I don't really think there is enough time to organize a comp. of that caliber. BUT!!! This could be a very good pilot for that, and like toot said this could turn into an annual comp.

Remember toot you had a great idea of using this forum as a source for the consultation, and there are plenty interested obviously. Should you continue as the organizer for this use anyone here possible. delegate, delegate, delegate :cross:

And for all we know, we could be shaking toot's hand at a future GABF as the founder of a new sect of homebrewing. :rockin: I'm sure we have all thought about this one time or another, it simply takes initiative.

ohh and to close a little off topic, dantodd, I am enjoying that moldy red as I type. tastes amazing. no problems, shared some too. Grows better and better every day. I only wish I could trust aging this one.

Cheers

 

[clindt]

I thought this was a contest to see who could brew a better BMC beer. In that case, shouldn't the style of beer that we all make reflect such? I think it would be too hard to judge taste if every beer was of a different style.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

I thought this was a contest to see who could brew a better BMC beer. In that case, shouldn't the style of beer that we all make reflect such? I think it would be too hard to judge taste if every beer was of a different style.

If the challenge is to brew a better beer than BMC, then pretty much ALL types of beer would qualify!