Ten gallon logistics

[Brewer dad]

For those who have gone from smaller to ten gallon batches, what were some logistical considerations you encountered but did not expect? This could be recipe planning, hot side, cold side, or general equipment issues.

I’m also interested in if you went to using one fermenter for the whole batch, or split it between two five gallon fermenters. If you use a single fermenter that is not a high dollar conical, what are you using?

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I started with a 3v gravity rig for 5 gallon batches, then built my current 3v2p herms rig for 10 gallon batches. While I had to get new everything for that rig, I'm still using the same 6.5 gallon Italian glass carboys for fermentation, and the same kegs. I did upgrade my Reverse Osmosis system from 50gpd to 100gpd so I could still fill the rig on the eve of a brew day.

I don't recall there being much of an issue with recipe creation - BeerSmith makes a lot of that pretty trivial as it will do most of the work to scale a recipe from 5 to 10 gallons.

Cheers!

 

[Brewer dad]

@day_trippr

Thanks! Yeah I figure most things will be linear for recipes. I’ve got a good amount of kegs now so that’s covered too. Just wondering if people do one FV to one keg, a larger FV to fill two kegs.

 

[Yooper]

@day_trippr

Thanks! Yeah I figure most things will be linear for recipes. I’ve got a good amount of kegs now so that’s covered too. Just wondering if people do one FV to one keg, a larger FV to fill two kegs.

I tend to do smaller batches now, but I did mostly 11 gallon batches for years. I used two fermenters, as I just don’t have the strength to haul bigger fermenters around. My brewery area was pretty far from my fermenting area, so things had to get moved around depending on ambient temperature and what type of beer (ale vs lager) so I needed the portability.

If I had a 14 gallon glycol fermenter that was easily temperature controlled and gravity draining, I would have used one fermenter.

 

[MaxStout]

I mostly brew 5-6 gallon batches, BIAB, but occasionally brew 10-11 gallons. I split those in two, and pitch different yeasts into each. I ferment in 7 gal Brew Buckets.

I use BeerSmith to scale up the recipe.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I started with 5 gallon batches, then ten and another leap to 15. That was over a course of ten years of brewing.

I'm now comfortable with ten gallon batches and doing so for twenty plus years. I brew on a 4v system that has changed slightly over the years. Five gallon batches were buckets. The 10-15 gallon days I used conical and modified Sanke kegs. I have settled in with a Spike conical now.

My standard brew system is still capable of 15 gallon batches. I'm good with ten. All of my beer is kegged

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I do certain styles in 10-gal batches. I use 2 fermenters as one would be too heavy for me to handle. Your efficiency will drop a bit, and the days a bit longer only because of taking more time to heat/chill more water volume.

 

[Climb]

When I moved to all grain, I built a 3v system using keggles, one pump and using a half barrel sanke as a fermenter. I mostly do one fermenter per batch unless I plan on a parti-gyle. Then I ferment the parti-gyle batch in a plastic bucket with no temperature control as my fermentation fridge is maxed out with the half barrel sanke and two sixtels being purged with fermentation gas.

 

[kevin58]

I use brewing software so scaling recipes was not a problem. I suggest using a boil kettle that is 15 gallons or larger.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I use brewing software so scaling recipes was not a problem. I suggest using a boil kettle that is 15 gallons or larger.

Larger kettles are the way to go. With a 15 gallon batch my 25 gallon kettle was OK but could have been larger. Ideal for ten gallon batches. I use natural gas for it

 

[Willy]

I do mostly 10 gal now but used to do all 5 gallons until I found it easier to double up so I could have more of an excellent batch. Ha.

You will still probably use 5 gal batch fermenter sizes (7 gal brew bucket for example.) I got myself a "Y" splitter to put between my kettle and the fermenter. Each side has a ball valve for flow control. Basically, you want to make each ferm buckets of wort as similar as possible... And the splitter helps make this possible.

Other considerations - you might be required to get a bigger kettle. You'll need more headroom to avoid boilovers and you may need to sparge because you don't have the room. Or ... You can add some fermentable to the boil (LME, DME, brown sugar etc) ... To reach the expected ABV if your space is too tight for a lot more grains needed in the mash.

It depends. What sizes (kettle, fermenter) do you have as a starting point?

 

[pvpeacock]

Once I bought a Grainfather G40, I switched from brewing mostly 5 gallon batches to mostly 10 gallon batches. That is because it has a larger capacity than my previous Blichmann brew kettle and has a pump so I don't have to worry about lifting heavy containers of water/wort.

What I like most about brewing 10 gallons is being able to create two separate and distinct beers with the same wort by fermenting it in two separate conical fermenters and using different yeasts and temperatures. For example, I recently made 5 gallons of saison and 5 gallons of California common using the same 10 gallons of wort. The saison fermented at 74 F using Belle Saison yeast and the California common fermented at 62 F. Both came out great but distinctly different.

I have also done this with hoppy beers making one IPA fermented at 64 F using a traditional ale yeast (S04 etc.) and the second batch fermented at 74 F or higher using Kviek yeast.

I have even made batches where the underlying wort did not have a lot of hops, but I added a few ounces of hop pellets to one fermenter when I transferred the wort to finish chilling it to fermentation temps and before I added the yeast (kind of a hybrid between a whirlpool and dry hop) and then dry hopped that batch heavily later on. The hop addition batch was an IPA and the other, non-hop addition batch was a kolsch or even a lager.

 

[Broken Crow]

In your other post: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/electric-system-build-hardware.736441/ you were leaning toward a 15G kettle...DON'T. Go with 20G. Even in my 15G keggle, I had a few boilovers with only a 6.5G batch....I have to be very very very cautious doing 10G in it. Get at least a kettle that has space above the 20G mark.

 

[Brewer dad]

Thanks all! I probably should have included in my OP I have a 20 gal kettle, which is part of why I’m looking at 10 gal batches. I plan to do either 5 or 10 gal batches in my new system depending on the beer.

 

[Dland]

I brew 10 gallon batches with a 3V system made of 15G keggles and a 12.5 gallon conical fermentor. I started out doing 5 gallon batches, but found it took about the same amount of time and effort to do the 10 gallon ones, so 10G it is. One thing that helps is pumping finished wort into fermentor, so I avoid carrying heavy containers up & down cellar stairs.

My conicals were not high dollar since I bought them used on ebay.

 

[Deadalus]

I do 6's and 10's in my 3V. My MT was a keggle and is now 10 gal SS Brewtech. I sometimes max out the MT for high gravity or high adjunct brews @10 gal batch size. There are some additional times added but not particular notable. A little more time to boil and some additional time fly sparging. Double the grinding time. A little more time heating strike water, HLT stays the same volume with the HERMS coil. This depends on your power or flame source some too, plus your procedure. I recently built a 120V e-kettle, vs my 240V, and I'm finding it may actually be slower for a 2.5 gal batch vs a 5 in the bigger boil kettle. It's an almost 4000W difference. I don't have to wait to start the power in the small BK, but I do have to wait to cover the element. I can cycle the power while fly sparging on the bigger one, as I keep the sparge water hot. But getting to boil after sparging is pretty quick on 5-6 gallon batch.

I used to use two carboys, but now two smaller unitanks or the bigger one (first choice).

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

In your other post: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/electric-system-build-hardware.736441/ you were leaning toward a 15G kettle...DON'T. Go with 20G. Even in my 15G keggle, I had a few boilovers with only a 6.5G batch....I have to be very very very cautious doing 10G in it. Get at least a kettle that has space above the 20G mark.

For sure!

I could very easily have a boil over in my 25 gallon kettle doing ten gallon batches. The bigger the better, you can't go wrong!

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

For those who have gone from smaller to ten gallon batches, what were some logistical considerations you encountered but did not expect? This could be recipe planning, hot side, cold side, or general equipment issues.

I’m also interested in if you went to using one fermenter for the whole batch, or split it between two five gallon fermenters. If you use a single fermenter that is not a high dollar conical, what are you using?

For the most part, things are pretty linear. Everything scales up just about the same.

A few points though...

• Weight. Everything weighs more at 10g than 5g. Which often means some of the things you might get away with using gravity start to get unwieldy. For myself and my former brew partner, we had a mishap trying to raise an imperial stout mash to a level where we could use gravity to drain, broke the wooden dowel we were using to hoist it, and spent the rest of the afternoon cleaning his garage floor -- after that day we went to a single tier system with 2 pumps.
• Time... Heating and cooling will just naturally take longer. This to me isn't a big deal for heating, but when you start trying to cool 10 gallons of wort, you may have to change methods. An immersion chiller won't work as quickly, and probably isn't the best option. Counterflow or plate chillers start to make a LOT more sense. But that introduces things like needing screens/filters perhaps for a plate chiller to keep it from clogging.
• If you're not kegging... You need to start. Bottling 5 gallons of beer is a bit of a nightmare. Well guess what happens when you double it?

For fermenting, I use a 15.5 gallon Sanke keg with this fermentor kit. Works well for me, and I use the blow-off port to push CO2 for transfer, so I can transfer under pressure. Once the keg goes in my fermentation fridge, it doesn't come out until the beer has been emptied into serving kegs.

 

[Brewer dad]

Edited to remove double quote.

For the most part, things are pretty linear. Everything scales up just about the same.

A few points though...

• Weight. Everything weighs more at 10g than 5g. Which often means some of the things you might get away with using gravity start to get unwieldy. For myself and my former brew partner, we had a mishap trying to raise an imperial stout mash to a level where we could use gravity to drain, broke the wooden dowel we were using to hoist it, and spent the rest of the afternoon cleaning his garage floor -- after that day we went to a single tier system with 2 pumps.
• Time... Heating and cooling will just naturally take longer. This to me isn't a big deal for heating, but when you start trying to cool 10 gallons of wort, you may have to change methods. An immersion chiller won't work as quickly, and probably isn't the best option. Counterflow or plate chillers start to make a LOT more sense. But that introduces things like needing screens/filters perhaps for a plate chiller to keep it from clogging.
• If you're not kegging... You need to start. Bottling 5 gallons of beer is a bit of a nightmare. Well guess what happens when you double it?

For fermenting, I use a 15.5 gallon Sanke keg with this fermentor kit. Works well for me, and I use the blow-off port to push CO2 for transfer, so I can transfer under pressure. Once the keg goes in my fermentation fridge, it doesn't come out until the beer has been emptied into serving kegs.

Great response, thank you!

Im building out an electric BIAB system, so plan to use a hoist to pull the bag. 5500w burner should help with some of the time considerations on the hot side. Ironically the same day I started this post I also started this one talking about using immersion and plate chillers possibly in conjunction.

The short of it is I now have both, and since I’m already poking holes in my kettle I think I’ll go ahead and add a dedicated filtered port for use with the PC.

Been kegging for a few years now thankfully. That’s a nifty kit for the sanke, will have to keep my eyes peeled for a deal on one.