Temperature Control

[roger_tucker]

So I've been doing this for about 8 months or so and I've have have some pretty good success. I want to have GREAT success. So I want to refine my technique a little more. I think my cleanliness is pretty good and I'm patient. However, other than the fact that I know the room where I keep my carboys is around 70 degrees, I haven't been doing anything or really even paying attention to temperatures during fermentation. I know 70 is a few degrees on the high side for ales. So what are people doing to monitor and control fermentation temperatures? Are the temperature strips you can stick on the side of the carboy good enough? Does anyone have a system to control the temps automatically? (Preferably costing less than $100,000)

 

[Irishpenguin13]

70 is super ok for ales. High 70's is ok too, but not as ok. Seriously, if youre worried go getcha a cheap lil deep freezer and an analog temp controller. My setup was less than $200 and it fits two carboys and has a handy dandy sliding shelf to store hops and whatnots

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[Irishpenguin13]

Oh also the temp strips are ok but doesnt give you exact readings, more like a guess reading

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[roger_tucker]

Seriously, if youre worried go getcha a cheap lil deep freezer and an analog temp controller. My setup was less than $200 and it fits two carboys and has a handy dandy sliding shelf to store hops and whatnots

Can I ask what size your fridge is, just so I have a reference when I look on craigslist. Something that would hold two carboys sounds perfect.

 

[boydster]

Since fermentation generates heat, keeping your carboy in a 70° room is going to be too warm for most ales that aren't Belgians or saisons. Look into getting a fermentation chamber or making a swamp cooler. Most ale yeasts make the best beer when started in the low 60's, and that is beer temp, not ambient. Some like it a few degrees warmer, some cooler, so check the yeast strain you are using and try to keep it on the lower end of the temp range for at least the first few days.

 

[Irishpenguin13]

Not sure about cubic feet but its 3 1/2' long, 32" tall and 22" deep

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[Irishpenguin13]

Since fermentation generates heat, keeping your carboy in a 70° room is going to be too warm for most ales that aren't Belgians or saisons. Look into getting a fermentation chamber or making a swamp cooler. Most ale yeasts make the best beer when started in the low 60's, and that is beer temp, not ambient. Some like it a few degrees warmer, some cooler, so check the yeast strain you are using and try to keep it on the lower end of the temp range for at least the first few days.

Agreed, but ive had good success with low 70's. If its all you can do for now then go with it until you can get a new setup. After all, your still making beer

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[roger_tucker]

Right, so from what I've seen yeast ales should be 67 or so. So I'm not horrible, but boydster is probably right. When I take into account the the added temperature due to fermentation, my beer is probably creeping toward the high side. I really want to build a temperature controlled chamber if I could do it for $200 or so. I'd like to be able to lager at some point and the chamber would allow for that also. My biggest obstacle right now is finding a place to put it. Too much junk in my house. Time to sell off some of my wife's stuff.

 

[boydster]

A swamp cooler is dirt cheap. If someone is looking to make an improvement and is asking specifically about temp control, they are probably ready to make the jump to either that or a fermentation chamber of some sort. IMO, it is one of the biggest things you can do to improve your beer.

OP, you won't be disappointed if you go the fridge route! Those temp strips are usually very close, like within a couple degrees. If you use a temp controller (STC-1000 is used a lot), you can tape the probe to the side of the carboy and insulate it with bubble wrap to help get accurate readings, too. Fridge + temp controller = great results.

 

[brokebucket]

So in summation, you can "make beer" and 70's is "super ok" without temp control.

To really get what you want out of yeast if you are interested in making the best beer you can is the fridge route. Craigslist is your friend. Know the dimensions you need and keep your eyes peeled. Also, online restaurant auctions are a good place to pick up a nice fridge for cheap.

For the temp control, you can pick up a Ranco temp controller for like $140, or put one together from ebay for a third of that. Pair that with a fermwrap heater for $30 and you are controlling your ferment temp to within one degree.

Best of luck, it is a great investment!

 

[brokebucket]

For dimensions, mine is 24" tall 22" deep, 18" wide and fits two ferment buckets including air locks no problem.

It is a Habco ESM-5 I picked up for $15 at an auction.

 

[bja]

So in summation, you can "make beer" and 70's is "super ok" without temp control.

Yeah, you can make beer, but it's not super OK.

 

[Gameface]

I like my 60L Speidel in a 5cu. ft. chest freezer.

I paid a lot less for my speidel then they go for now, but a 5cu. ft chest freeze could still be had for less than $200 and the plastic tank less than $100. Add a temp controller, also less than $100 and you're all set. Way less than $100K.

 

[Irishpenguin13]

Yeah, you can make beer, but it's not super OK.

Righty-o. Just sayin itll work until a more handy setup is acquired

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[roger_tucker]

For dimensions, mine is 24" tall 22" deep, 18" wide and fits two ferment buckets including air locks no problem.

Not sure about cubic feet but its 3 1/2' long, 32" tall and 22" deep

So this is encouraging. I looked up the Habco ESM-5. It's 5.6 cubit feet. That's smaller than what I thought I'd need for two carboys. I have a 4.4 cubic foot kegerator and there's no way I could get two carboy's in there. I could maybe get one 5 gallon carboy in there but nothing bigger than that.

 

[Irishpenguin13]

Two carboys fit good, one carboy and one bucket is snug

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[BigFloyd]

70 is super ok for ales. High 70's is ok too, but not as ok.

Where did you get that idea? 70*F+ ambient air temp is too high for most ale strains. If you use Nottingham at that temp, it will be nasty. Yeast like WLP001 (US-05), S-04, 1056, etc. do best if pitched around 60*F and held at 64*F (beer temp, not air) until the krausen falls. After that, it's good to step them up to 68*F or so to finish.

Craigslist used fridge or freezer + an STC-1000 controller (requires some basic wiring to build the outlet box) will take your beer to the next level.

The STC-1000 is a dual temperature controller. You wire it into a standard 2-plug outlet that you mount in some kind of project box (either homemade or bought at Radio Shack). One (cool) outlet is for the freezer/fridge. If your fermenter chamber is placed where it’s cold (like a garage in winter), you plug some kind of small heater into the warm outlet and then put that heater inside the freezer. Otherwise, just use the cold outlet.

Set the target temp (in Celsius) on the STC-1000. Set the tolerance (default is +/-0.5*C). When the temp (as read by the sensor) climbs 0.5*C above the target, it powers up the cool outlet and keeps it energized until the temp drops to the target and then turns it off. Likewise with the warm outlet if it gets 0.5*C too cool. You tape the sensor on the side of the fermenter and place some kind of insulation like bubble wrap over top of it so that it reads the bucket temp and not the air.


http://www.amazon.com/All-purpose-Temperature-Controller-STC-1000-sensor/dp/B00862G3TQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382149071&sr=8-1&keywords=stc-1000


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/stc-1000-setup-beginners-433985/#post5538096

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/ebay-fish-tank-controller-build-using-wal-mart-parts-261506/


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/ebay-aquarium-temp-controller-build-163849/



http://brewstands.com/fermentation-heater.html

 

[brokebucket]

I snapped a couple pics for you so you can see how it all goes together. Obviously plenty of room with one, but two fits in there as well...they go diagonal.

 

[Irishpenguin13]

No really an idea, mostly cause i used to do it when i had no other option and it always came out great.

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[roger_tucker]

Where did you get that idea? 70*F+ ambient air temp is too high for most ale strains. If you use Nottingham at that temp, it will be nasty. Yeast like WLP001 (US-05), S-04, 1056, etc. do best if pitched around 60*F and held at 64*F (beer temp, not air) until the krausen falls. After that, it's good to step them up to 68*F or so to finish.

Thank you for the videos and links.

My beers have been very drinkable fermenting at 70 degrees. My point is, and I think IrishPenguin, is that I know they can be much better. Now I just have to find a refrigerator. Craig's list has plenty of 17-20 cu ft refrigerators. Most of the minis are too small. I ran into the same thing when I went to build a kegerator.

Here's a follow on question. I live in northern IL, right on the WI border, and I have a unheated detached garage. Winter can be rough. If I were to put a fridge in my garage, would a fermwrap and a temperature controller be able keep the temperature stable in the dead of winter?

 

[BigFloyd]

Here's a follow on question. I live in northern IL, right on the WI border, and I have a unheated detached garage. Winter can be rough. If I were to put a fridge in my garage, would a fermwrap and a temperature controller be able keep the temperature stable in the dead of winter?

Sure. Because of the modest cubic footage and the insulation, it doesn't take much heat to maintain warmth inside a fridge or freezer. Another option for heat inside there in the winter is the DIY paint can fermenter heater.

 

[CryoEng]

If you are mostly fighting heat (trying to stay cool), a small chest freezer and one of the temp controllers is perfect. Set the freezer to fully on (cold) and use the controller to turn the power on and off to the freezer. Simple. I've been using one of the old mechanical controllers since the mid 90's and it's still working fine. You don't need an expensive, 2 stage thing. In fact, heating and cooling will always be a problem getting stability.

Handy/Home/Depot/Walmart/Craigslist is bound to have one of the 7 cubic foot size for sale. That'll hold a couple of carboys and is great for fermentation. My problem is I will wind up with one I want to crash cool and one I just started, so I'd be better off with 2 of the 5 cubic footers.

Eh, always something else to add to the brewery!

Temp control will help you make much better beers. It's a good investment.

Cheers!

 

[BigFloyd]

You don't need an expensive, 2 stage thing. In fact, heating and cooling will always be a problem getting stability.

Well, an STC-1000 is dual temp, automatically activates cooling or heating (as needed to maintain the set temp +/- 0.5*C) and only cost about $20 on Amazon. The other bits to build the outlet box can be had for about $10-12 if you have to buy the project box. Both of my boxes are made from scrap, so each unit w/ outlet ran me about $25 total.

When fermenting, I tape the sensor probe to the side of the bucket and insulate over it with bubble wrap. I don't have issues with temperature stability even if I have the heater in there.

Temp control will help you make much better beers. It's a good investment.

+1000. There's no better brew gear investment IMO.

 

[Corey_SS]

Just a random thought, but one thing that I've found helpful was to set the temp setting on my freezer to the weakest possible. When I had the freezer on a stronger (colder) setting, whenever it turned on it just went balls to the wall and makes a wider temp range than I want. As always, YMMV.

 

[lhommedieu]

+1 on the chest freezer/temperature control system. I've been using a 5 cubic foot chest freezer bought on sale from Home Depot and the DIY STC-1000 unit (a link can be found somewhere back on this thread). Chest freezers can be found cheaper on Craigslist if you are willing to wait.

I've been able to consistently maintain temps for fermentation; the results have been great tasting beer.

One caveat that I would add is to make sure that the height of the chest freezer is sufficient for the airlock, if that's what you use. Even though I thought that I had measured accurately, I found the fit was too tight. I switched to a blow-off tube and bottle instead, and have been happy with the result.

I'm going to get another one in a couple of months as I'm going to start brewing lagers and will need something for lagering as well as for fermenting at ale temperatures.

 

[Ilan34]

Just a random thought, but one thing that I've found helpful was to set the temp setting on my freezer to the weakest possible. When I had the freezer on a stronger (colder) setting, whenever it turned on it just went balls to the wall and makes a wider temp range than I want. As always, YMMV.

I'd love to hear other people's input on this aspect, as I'm new to temp control.

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[brokebucket]

I'd love to hear other people's input on this aspect, as I'm new to temp control.

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There is no high low or medium setting on a compressor (at least that i am aware of), it is either on or off. The temp settings is just at what temperatures it cycles on/off. With a standard freezer or refigerator, there will be a high variance on when the compressor will come on and go off, so you will have temp fluctuations. Also, you are limited on your range....such as you may not be able to get it to run in the 60's.

With a temp controller, you set the temp and the range...then it powers the fridge on/off and/or the fermwrap on/off to maintain the range you programmed. Mine easily keeps +/- 1 degree....the only time it struggles is if it is really cold in the garage, I need to insulate the fermwrap to keep it on the warmer side.

So in summary, I leave my fridge temp controller on the coldest setting possible and let the external temp controller do it's thing.

 

[Ilan34]

There is no high low or medium setting on a compressor (at least that i am aware of), it is either on or off. The temp settings is just at what temperatures it cycles on/off. With a standard freezer or refigerator, there will be a high variance on when the compressor will come on and go off, so you will have temp fluctuations. Also, you are limited on your range....such as you may not be able to get it to run in the 60's.

With a temp controller, you set the temp and the range...then it powers the fridge on/off and/or the fermwrap on/off to maintain the range you programmed. Mine easily keeps +/- 1 degree....the only time it struggles is if it is really cold in the garage, I need to insulate the fermwrap to keep it on the warmer side.

Cool, so what you're saying is that the temperature controller will override the dial in the actual freezer?

 

[BigFloyd]

Cool, so what you're saying is that the temperature controller will override the dial in the actual freezer?

Yep. The controller switches the power to the freezer at the plug on when the sensor gets warmer than the set temp and then turns it back off after the temp drops back to the set point.

 

[lhommedieu]

As mentioned above, the light bulb in the can DIY project is a great way to add heat to the freezer when the temperature in an unheated garage starts to fall. I was able to maintain my fermentation temperatures plus/minus 1 degree in sub-freezing outside temperatures.

 

[brokebucket]

Cool, so what you're saying is that the temperature controller will override the dial in the actual freezer?

You would plug the fridge in to the temp controller and it would turn power to the plug on and off based on the temp. Same thing for your heat, which would plug in to a seperate outlet.

 

[Corey_SS]

There is no high low or medium setting on a compressor (at least that i am aware of), it is either on or off. The temp settings is just at what temperatures it cycles on/off.

Well I learned something new. I suppose that makes more sense anyway.

 

[lhommedieu]

This is mine before the freezer went out to the garage. The light bulb/paint can heater plugs into the other socket. I never got around to putting the unit in a project box, but plan to when I construct a new one for my lager freezer.

The following is the "Mother of all Threads" with respect to the STC-1000 DIY project:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/ebay-aquarium-temp-controller-build-163849/

 

[roger_tucker]

So this is what I'm going to do. I see some freezer chests on Craigslist. My problem is that I have no way to get one home. Sidenote: After I buy a freezer chest I'm buying a beater pickup truck. Home Depot has got a 7.2 cubit foot chest for $229, free shipping. I don't think I'm going to get better than that. I would have liked to do it for under $200, but I can still do it for under $300 I think.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-7-0-cu-ft-Chest-Freezer-in-White-FCM7SUWW/203547578?cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-203547578&skwcid&kwd=&ci_sku=203547578&ci_kw=&ci_gpa=pla&ci_src=17588969