Tank swap question

[bracconiere]

I forgot to bring my scale, because someone else gave me a ride for a 20lb swap...it's a steel tank, without a
TW stamp...

th HP gauge is at 1100psi, so it's got liquid in it.

but the thing only weighs ~48 pounds? that would be good for a aluminum tank, but steel? i see google tells me TW45...did i just get shorted again? or is it possible for a steel tank to only weigh 30lbs?

 

[Golddiggie]

My google fu gave me
" It weighs 24.9 lbs. empty"
So, ~48 pounds means you got at least 20# of CO2 in there. Sounds like you did alright.

Another result shows:
"How much does a steel 20lb CO2 tank weigh?
49 pounds

A full #20 CO2 tank should weigh 49 pounds"

 

[mullet6577]

This shows an empty steel tank weighing in at 45 lbs

https://beveragelements.com/beverag...linders/20-lb-co2-cylinder-steel-recertified/
Are you 100% sure you got steel instead of aluminum? If it is truly steel, you got screwed

 

[IslandLizard]

Is the tank similar to the one you swapped? Maybe you jotted down the TW of that one?

 

[Golddiggie]

I've made it a point to only accept aluminum tanks if they're being swapped. Luckily, the HBS I go to for this now only carries aluminum tanks. It's also helpful to swap them since I have a couple (10# and 20#) that are outside of hydro date, so getting them filled really isn't an option. Well, unless I wanted to get them certified again, which I'd rather not go through. Especially with the lower cost of doing a swap. It also helps that the tanks in the swap pool are not fugly.

 

[bracconiere]

This shows an empty steel tank weighing in at 45 lbs

https://beveragelements.com/beverag...linders/20-lb-co2-cylinder-steel-recertified/
Are you 100% sure you got steel instead of aluminum? If it is truly steel, you got screwed

unfortanetly that's what i was afraid of...which means it just has enough to still have liquid. if this thing starts dropping the HP gauge in a couple weeks, i'll be 'upset', not sure what to do about it. wish i remembered my bathroom scale to double check at the shop....i was kinda in a hurry to get out the door

Is the tank similar to the one you swapped? Maybe you jotted down the TW of that one?

no i swapped aluminium, for steel.....that one a weighed and got like 42lbs, looked it up and it said tare for aluminium was 25, so figured good to go, and when i weighed at 500psi and 85f....it weighed 26lbs, so good fill...but this one makes me nervous! (i didn't tighten my reg on it good enough and noticed after a few hours my scale went down 6ozs, so i'm already getting my ass kicked!

edit: the 6oz loss might have been a fluke though, i might need to reset my scale or something. i would have though a leak that bad would be hissing!


edit 2: this deserves it's own thread, but when i went to use some keg lube on my reg to incase, the little jar was damn near empty? anyone else notice vanishing cream "keg lube"? is this stuff supposed to be kept in the fridge or something?

 

[bracconiere]

once i got a tank that did have a tare weight stamp, and it only had 13lbs...so only getting 11-12lbs wouldn't surprise me....but not much i can do since i got it home already...really got to remember to bring my scale with me! no getting lazy!

 

[IslandLizard]

...but this one makes me nervous! (i didn't tighten my reg on it good enough and noticed after a few hours my scale went down 6ozs, so i'm already getting my ass kicked!

edit: the 6oz loss might have been a fluke though, i might need to reset my scale or something. i would have though a leak that bad would be hissing!

I put 2 turns of (white) teflon tape on the tank nozzle threads for lubrication. It makes the regulator connection nut turn so much easier and smoother. I could not get a positive seal otherwise, even with a big 18" adjustable wrench.

A larger leak on the high pressure connection you should hear, yes. But a smaller one, leaking on oz an hour or so, you may not.

From all your hassles, that outfit selling you those tanks seems shoddy. Is that the only supplier around?
It takes a bit of expertise to fill tanks completely, up to their official fill weight. One of the steps is a pre-purge, by transferring some liquid CO2, then blowing it out. That will chill the tank, so it can be filled easier. Then put it on a scale when filling.

 

[IslandLizard]

edit 2: this deserves it's own thread, but when i went to use some keg lube on my reg to incase, the little jar was damn near empty? anyone else notice vanishing cream "keg lube"? is this stuff supposed to be kept in the fridge or something?

Is that the transparent sticky keg lube (a bit thicker and stickier than vaseline) in a small 1 oz or 2 oz black container labeled as such? No, that does not evaporate. It may get liquid at higher temps and ooze out. But you'd see that.

 

[bracconiere]

I put 2 turns of (white) teflon tape on the tank nozzle threads for lubrication. It makes the regulator connection nut turn so much easier and smoother. I could not get a positive seal otherwise, even with a big 18" adjustable wrench.

A larger leak on the high pressure connection you should hear, yes. But a smaller one, leaking on oz an hour or so, you may not.

From all your hassles, that outfit selling you those tanks seems shoddy. Is that the only supplier around?
It takes a bit of expertise to fill tanks completely, up to their official fill weight. One of the steps is a pre-purge, by transferring some liquid CO2, then blowing it out. That will chill the tank, so it can be filled easier. Then put it on a scale when filling.

i just used a 12" incher, my mistake was try to hold the reg flat while tightening the nut, second time, i snuged it up then tighented it more not used to the new kegco built in washer, but it's better then the tap rite i think....holding steady at 53lbs4.8ozs for a few hours now...(reg and tubing weighs 6-7 pounds on top of tank...

and yeah i looked around for another option...and last time with the tank with a tare weight tamp, i told him on my next swap it only had 13 lbs, he said, you have to let me as soon know as possible, great but with out draining the tank, and weighing empty, i have no argument?

 

[bracconiere]

Is that the transparent sticky keg lube (a bit thicker and stickier than vaseline) in a small 1 oz or 2 oz black container labeled as such? No, that does not evaporate. It may get liquid at higher temps and ooze out. But you'd see that.

it was thick, but white i think 2oz container, white lid...it just seems to have evaporated in the 98f indoor temp or usual 85f....looks more liquidy now?

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, my 20 pound steel siphon tank has a stamped Tare of 28.8 pounds.
I have a feeling you're not going to truly know what the heck happened until you weigh your emptied tank - which sounds like it may not be far off.

As for Keglube I used to get these mini tubs:

...but lately have just been getting tubes of the same stuff (I don't think they sell it in the tubs anymore) and squirting the tube into the tub (which is handier).

And, no, clear silicone grease doesn't evaporate in the tub (or the tube)...

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

last time with the tank with a tare weight tamp, i told him on my next swap it only had 13 lbs, he said, you have to let me as soon as possible, great but with out draining the tank, and weighing empty, i have no argument?

If you suspect an underfill, I would contact them, pronto. Maybe they have a table with tare weights of tank sizes?

holding steady at 53lbs4.8ozs for a few hours now...(reg and tubing weighs 6-7 pounds on top of tank...

So that would be around 47#, minus the "20# fill," leaving 27# for tare weight... Is that reasonable?

 

[bracconiere]

fwiw, my 20 pound steel siphon tank has a stamped Tare of 28.8 pounds.

i hope i do resurrect this thread in 8 or so months with an answer.....not 3-4.....

 

[day_trippr]

Or next week?

I think the 27 pound calculation is reasonable, but it could be far off given the gamut of reported weights for 20 pound steel cylinders which are all over the place! Either find an identical tank with a known Tare or wait it out...

Cheers (Lol - that's a bad pun right there )

 

[bracconiere]

So that would be around 47#, minus the "20# fill," leaving 27# for tare weight... Is that reasonable?

it was 48, some odd, with out the reg on it....it was 53lbs11~, with the reg, until i lost a bit because of the lose reg....i plan on using this thread as a note to the original weight, when it does go dry....

 

[bracconiere]

wait it out...

there's no way i can blow a hair dryer on the side and see where water condenses or something to see the liquid level is there?

 

[day_trippr]

Well...I imagine if you were to open the cylinder valve long enough to chill the head space down via rapid btu-sucking evaporation you'd be able to spray some water on the tank to find the liquid level.

Only you would know if it's worth it...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

Well...I imagine if you were to open the cylinder valve long enough to chill the head space down via rapid btu-sucking evaporation you'd be able to spray some water on the tank to find the liquid level.

Only you would know if it's worth it...

Cheers!

oh my god, i can't even imagine losing a few pounds to worry about not getting a few pounds! and watching it on the scale....i've got 4 refrigerators though, can i put it in one of the emtpies over night, then let it sit at 85f for an hour and do similar?

i shot my ir at the side of thing up and down all the same, would above the liquid level warm up quicker?

 

[day_trippr]

Chilling the tank down, then pulling it out and IR scanning it might be revealing...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

Chilling the tank down, then pulling it out and IR scanning it might be revealing...

Cheers!

damn, you got me thinking....i'm a weakling these days, but i'm going to pull my reg off and shake it...maybe even fill up the bath tub to see if it floats at a certain angle....

(but if the tare weight is higher then the displacment it'd probably just lay totaly on it's side wouldn't it? unless displacement...off to google!

 

[bracconiere]

Chilling the tank down, then pulling it out and IR scanning it might be revealing...

Cheers!

would the gas or liquid be warmer? say i put it in a 40f fridge overnight, while i don't need it...get it out to hook back up in the morning. i'm thinking then the liquid would be warmer then the top gas part?

 

[day_trippr]

The idea would be to chill it down, then pull it out and expect the metal above the liquid line to warm up faster.
At some point there should be enough temperature differential for an IR gun to find.

Your idea is based on the same thing - that liquid would slow temperature changes - but I think my way might be easier and quicker...,

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

The idea would be to chill it down, then pull it out and expect the metal above the liquid line to warm up faster.
At some point there should be enough temperature differential for an IR gun to find.

Your idea is based on the same thing - that liquid would slow temperature changes - but I think my way might be easier and quicker...,

Cheers!

ok...i just poured a glass looked at it, and thought even if 48lbs is UNDER filled, it's still damn heavy, i don't to shake it like a martini glass!

i also had the thought, of opening it a crack and tipping it over until i got liquid....if it's full should be quick?