Switching to debittered malt in my dry stout

[Peleus74]

I need some advice. I love drinking a good dry stout, but I've noticed that my homebrew versions always have one of two flaws. Either they are (1) good and dark but too astringent or (2) they taste nice and smooth but are not dark but brown. So I've been working long and hard on my level of 500L roasted barley to hit the perfect amount.

I've done various things with no full success such as using 300L roasted barley (Papazian book), or using a coffee grinder and late mash addition of the roasted grains (Jamil's book). I've also toured the range of yeasts including Notty, Chico, 1084, and Windsor.

My next attempt will be switching out the 500L roasted barley with debittered roast malt. I've searched and scoured this forum high and low and I've failed to come up with anyone discussing their experience doing exactly this. I know that I cannot be the only person who ever wanted to try it....so can anyone tell me about their experience before I end up with 3 gallons of this?

Style: Dry StoutOG: 1.037
Type: All Grain FG: 1.011
ABV: 3.34 % IBU's: 25.41
Efficiency: 75.00 %Boil Size: 4.06 Gals
Color: 28.2 SRM Batch Size: 3.00 Gals

AmountPercentageName
3.25 lbs70.27 %Pale 2-row Malt
1.00 lbs21.62 %Barley, Flaked
6.00 ozs8.11 %Dingeman's De-Bittered Black Malt

Hops
AmountIBU'sName Time
1.00 ozs25.41Williamette45 min

 

[riderkb]

I need some advice. I love drinking a good dry stout, but I've noticed that my homebrew versions always have one of two flaws. Either they are (1) good and dark but too astringent or (2) they taste nice and smooth but are not dark but brown. So I've been working long and hard on my level of 500L roasted barley to hit the perfect amount.

I've done various things with no full success such as using 300L roasted barley (Papazian book), or using a coffee grinder and late mash addition of the roasted grains (Jamil's book). I've also toured the range of yeasts including Notty, Chico, 1084, and Windsor.

My next attempt will be switching out the 500L roasted barley with debittered roast malt. I've searched and scoured this forum high and low and I've failed to come up with anyone discussing their experience doing exactly this. I know that I cannot be the only person who ever wanted to try it....so can anyone tell me about their experience before I end up with 3 gallons of this?

Style: Dry StoutOG: 1.037
Type: All Grain FG: 1.011
ABV: 3.34 % IBU's: 25.41
Efficiency: 75.00 %Boil Size: 4.06 Gals
Color: 28.2 SRM Batch Size: 3.00 Gals

AmountPercentageName
3.25 lbs70.27 %Pale 2-row Malt
1.00 lbs21.62 %Barley, Flaked
6.00 ozs8.11 %Dingeman's De-Bittered Black Malt

Hops
AmountIBU'sName Time
1.00 ozs25.41Williamette45 min

Sorry I can't help with this question. Please let us know if you get it dialed in. I'll make a batch when you do. Seems like 25 IBU from the hops is a lot if you are also getting grain bitterness as well.

 

[soupfist]

Yeah that will get you smooth and dark, but you're also kind of ripping the heart out of something that I would call a "stout." Debittered gets you color but not much flavor. Think of it as "brewer's food coloring."

You do want *some* presence of roasted barley in the stout IMHO. Try doing 3 oz. roasted barley and 3 oz. debittered and see what that does for you.

If you haven't already, you might consider your "astringency" problem might actually be tannins coming from a low pH in your mash (for which dark beers are especially known). Are you measuring & keeping the mash at 5.2 pH? I used to not bother with pH at all and with the low-alkalinity water in our area, I made a lot of mouth-puckering stouts in my day...

 

[william_shakes_beer]

I use black patent in my guiness and get black without bitteress.

 

[riderkb]

Yeah that will get you smooth and dark, but you're also kind of ripping the heart out of something that I would call a "stout." Debittered gets you color but not much flavor. Think of it as "brewer's food coloring."

You do want *some* presence of roasted barley in the stout IMHO. Try doing 3 oz. roasted barley and 3 oz. debittered and see what that does for you.

If you haven't already, you might consider your "astringency" problem might actually be tannins coming from a low pH in your mash (for which dark beers are especially known). Are you measuring & keeping the mash at 5.2 pH? I used to not bother with pH at all and with the low-alkalinity water in our area, I made a lot of mouth-puckering stouts in my day...

I thought that astringency was caused by high pH, not low.

 

[Malticulous]

It should taste more like a schwarzbier than a stout. Nothing wrong with that. I think my best stout was a 50:50 blend of Briess 300L and 500L roasted barley (at 10% of the grain bill.) I really like Crisp roasted barley too. I dislike Hugh Baird. I never could dial that stuff in.

 

[GRBC]

I've been there too. I now replace half the roasted barley with debittered black or midnight wheat in my dry stout to get the color without all the astringent, ashy flavor from the roast barley. By the way, I find 500L roasted barley to be smoother than 300L roast or chocolate malt which is a bit counterintuitive to me.

Also, I mash around 155 and aim to keep the IBU below 40 with an OG of 1.045 so I don't get bitter + roasty + dry which can be too much of a good thing for me.

 

[MrSnacks]

God I love that ashy flavor. That's what a stout is supposed to taste like!