Switchcraft's plug and outlet option

[Mojzis]

From http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/spx-series/nl4fx

Attention

speakON is NOT to be used as an AC mains or power supply connector!

I just sifted through the arguments and found this stated earlier. :smack:

What's the consensus on being able to attach these securely? Or should one go with the 20A and 30A power cons?

 

[augiedoggy]

I just sifted through the arguments and found this stated earlier. :smack:

ok... says that manufatuer and there is no reason for that statement... 30a ans 1500v is 30a and 1500v... as long as it rated that at a continuious load it makes no difference what its powering=speaker, amplifier, heating element or otherwise...

manufacturers also often say not use a competitors product with theirs.... they make ridiculous statements about not having best results that often have no real basis.... And for reasons like that you have people that wont mix brands... for example I know a guy with a Dell computer that thinks he needs dell branded mouse and keyboard... and how many people thing you need to use a samsung brand dvd player with a samsung tv.... you may think its funny but people are impressionable especially when they feel intimidated about a product or technology. Otherwise intelligent people dont alway think for themselves in cases like this.

Whats the difference between 14 gauge speaker wire and 14 gauge power wire??

Marketing and price.

 

[jeffmeh]

I just sifted through the arguments and found this stated earlier. :smack:

What's the consensus on being able to attach these securely? Or should one go with the 20A and 30A power cons?

Probably repeating what has already been said. The Neutrik PowerCons are officially rated for purpose (mains power). Unfortunately, last time I looked they only made a 3-pole version, so it would not be suitable for powering a 4-wire control panel. It is certainly a good solution for a 3-wire control panel, and for powering the heating elements.

 

[Mojzis]

Thanks augie.

FWIW Neutrik sells the NAC3FX-W:

The powerCON TRUE1 is a locking waterproof 16/20 A true mains connector. It replaces appliance couplers wherever a very rugged solution in combination with a locking device is needed in order to guarantee a safe power connection.

The powerCON TRUE1 is a connector with breaking capacity (CBC), i.e. it can be connected or disconnected under load or live.

True mains connector with breaking capacity (CBC)
Lockable 16 A single phase connector (USA: 20 A)
Dust and water resistant according to IP65 in mated condition
Easy and reliable twist lock system
Extremely robust and reliable
Unique Neutrik cable retention
ENEC certified according to IEC 60320
UL recognized components

On a quick search i'm seeing ~9$ for the male connector.

Edit: I didn't check if these were also 3 pole.

 

[iijakii]

Man, I didn't know they were that cheap. I was expecting them to be more along the lines of the ridiculous flanged receptacles and ~30 bucks a pop.

 

[whoaru99]

Whats the difference between 14 gauge speaker wire and 14 gauge power wire??

Marketing and price.

Depends...

Two things come immediately to mind, abrasion resistance of jacket and voltage rating of insulation.

"Power wire" almost certainly can be used for speaker wire, but "speaker wire" may not be appropriate for power wire.

 

[alien]

Temperature rating of insulation may also be a factor. For connecting to hot things like electric elements butyl insulation is often recommended. AFAIK this is not available for speaker wire.

 

[augiedoggy]

Depends...

Two things come immediately to mind, abrasion resistance of jacket and voltage rating of insulation.

"Power wire" almost certainly can be used for speaker wire, but "speaker wire" may not be appropriate for power wire.

Yes this is true. I wasnt thinking about that.... But the speaker wire if anything would have inferior insulation yet will almost always cost more than lamp cord or power wire of the same gauge which has better insulation...and that was my point.

Realistically the insulation type is a non issue in most enviroments when it comes to that kind of power wire... if your going to be replacing a lamp cord or light appliance cord the real wek point is at the plug end or the end where is may be spliced together with an existing cord. still, point made and I stand corrected.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I know that this is a REALLY OLD THREAD and all, but...in the off-chance that someone comes upon this and thinks that these switchcraft plugs are the bees knees...

I installed these on my electric rig around July of 2013. I installed male plugs on the ends of my cables for both the BK and HLT and installed female receptacles on the control panel and on small electrical boxes that connected to the vessels via weldless methodology (nut, o-ring, washer.)

Around May of 2014 the receptacle that was on my BK failed me during a boil, which was really frustrating. I think it was the contacts on the inside of the receptacle not contacting with the contacts on the male plug. I was wanting a way to remove the BK heating element for better cleaning anyway, so instead of replacing the receptacle with a new switchcraft receptacle I purchased a Brewhardware heating element enclosure with the soldered tri-clover thingy and got rid of the electrical box. Ugh! The nasty crap that was hiding behind that nut! If you have weldless connections on your boil kettle or mash tun, then it's a really good idea to remove them periodically and clean them thoroughly!

So this past weekend my HLT wasn't able to get up to temp, and I couldn't figure out why. I'd turn off the PID, unplug the cable, plug it back in, turn on the PID, and then it would work some more getting the temp higher, but it wouldn't get to my mash temps. Fearing once again that the receptacle failed me, I decided to bypass the male plug and female receptacle and wired the cord directly to the heating element and voila...it worked. I haven't fully investigated yet if the male plug malfunctioned or the female receptacle malfunctioned or maybe both. The crimp connections looked fine, so I'm pretty sure it wasn't that.

I'm now going to replace the HLT heating element connection with the same BrewHardware connection and am going to replace the switchcraft connectors with the more robust (and expensive) Neutrik PowerCon connectors.

These switchcraft plugs work, for a while. They never really do "lock" into place, though. Had to resort to other means to make sure that they stayed snugly connected to the control panel and vessels. I wouldn't ultimately recommend them.

 

[Mojzis]

Sucks that you had such a bad experience with them. I've been using them for a year now and love them. I think i'm using ~5 sets, including one to connect or disconnect from the back of the boil kettle which I unplug every brew day.

All of my connections lock into place well and so far haven't failed. Now i'll be weary and have a spare ready.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have had no issues either besides the fact that they dont "lock" as already mentioned... I have read many times that the Neutrik PowerCon connectors are made better and they look like they would lock better.
If I ever replace mine I am likely going with military/aviation connectors. I use some of these on a panel I'm building and they are heavy duty, compact and have a screw on retainer ring.

 

[Handsaw]

I have been using the Switchcraft connectors between my control panel and my mash/boil (I do BIAB) kettle since sometime in 2013 and I have had one failure where I let the element get dry and so got really hot and melted the female part of the connector so that I couldn't remove the cable. I really don't call that a failure on the part of the connector so much as a failure on the part of the operator for failing to put any rice hull in the mash and grinding the grain to about the size of grits.

My connectors have never failed to lock into place and I am careful to never plug or unplug them when the control panel is powered on.

How do we know that the Neutrik PowerCon connectors are more robust?

 

[LandoLincoln]

How do we know that the Neutrik PowerCon connectors are more robust?

Looking at the assembly instructions for the PowerCon plug and receptacle, it has screws instead of tabs for female spade terminals. That alone gives me more confidence in the connectors. I'm not a big fan of depending on spade terminals inside cables that move around.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have been using the Switchcraft connectors between my control panel and my mash/boil (I do BIAB) kettle since sometime in 2013 and I have had one failure where I let the element get dry and so got really hot and melted the female part of the connector so that I couldn't remove the cable. I really don't call that a failure on the part of the connector so much as a failure on the part of the operator for failing to put any rice hull in the mash and grinding the grain to about the size of grits.

My connectors have never failed to lock into place and I am careful to never plug or unplug them when the control panel is powered on.

How do we know that the Neutrik PowerCon connectors are more robust?

one look at a side by side comparison seems to show this, plus the fact that the switchcraft ones are cheaper copies of the Neutrik connectors from what I have read...
also theres another thread floating around where someone with a lot of experience with both of them from use in the music industry has stated the switchcraft connectors do not have the consistent fit and finish as the other...
I noticed now there are other neutrik clones from china on ebay...

I now unplug my elements at the kettle where I use short pigtails with nema connectors I had laying around so my switchcraft connectors usually stay plugged in without any issues. they support the weight of the hanging cord fine but mine certainly do not "lock" and I have 2 of them which I ordered from mouser..

 

[Mojzis]

Maybe its because my panel isn't on the wall and not much dead weight is pulling down, but my connectors snap into place. I haven't tried pulling on them.

Certainly the nicer Neutrik connectors with metal tabs would be better than plastic.

I also looked at the Neutrik knock-offs on eBay. But I was concerned because none that I found gave you any indication of the electrical parameters besides how many poles.

 

[Homercidal]

What would be the price for something that can handle about 30A? The Neutriks I was looking at seemed to be around $30

 

[LandoLincoln]

What would be the price for something that can handle about 30A? The Neutriks I was looking at seemed to be around $30

Mouser has the plugs at $20.67 and the receptacles for $14.86.

 

[Homercidal]

Mouser has the plugs at $20.67 and the receptacles for $14.86.

Excellent! Thank you!

I may try this route with a bit more reading.

 

[orangehero]

Don't forget about NEMA twistlock connectors. My elements are removable with a 2" TC housing, then about a 12" long pigtail with a NEMA male connector. I use an extension cord with NEMA female and male ends to hook up the element to the panel which also has a female twistlock receptacle.

They may be a little bulkier than the PowerCON's, but I'm confident that they are secure and made to carry the current. If you shop around on eBay you can pick up each connector for $5-10.

 

[Rivenin]

Excellent! Thank you!

I may try this route with a bit more reading.

took a gamble on these recently (8 bucks for 2 pairs, couldn't beat it)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151020494634?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131165975077?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

worked perfectly on the last brew... took about 3 weeks to get here, but no complaints at all

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

I got a buddy who's a roadie (well guitar tech) and I asked him about switchcraft vs Neutriks, and he recommended Neutriks. They feel pretty solid to me, but never used the switchcraft.

There are quite a few knock offs out there, but you do still get what you pay for, mostly

 

[augiedoggy]

Mouser has the plugs at $20.67 and the receptacles for $14.86.

wow they went up! they were about $7-10 a piece when I bought mine a year and a half ago....

 

[augiedoggy]

theres always 3 pole aviation connectors like these for much less... They actually stay secure with a screw ring in most cases..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-250V-30A...072?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4adbc33420

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PCS-P20-p...632?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8e1659d8

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PCS-P20-3...302?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8dc37d9e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/500V-30A-SP...328?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f149cdc0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250V-25A-3P...927?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4193c7b0d7