Sweetener

[Inodoro_Pereyra]

Ok, so, today I went to Wal Fart, and while on the sugar aisle, I started reading the ingredients of all the sweeteners available, initially to see if they carried any lactose. They don't.
But I found a sweetener that lists as ingredients dextrose and maltodextrin, nothing else.

Has anybody tried using this sweetener for their beer?
Is it fermentable?
Advantages? Disadvantages?

 

[shawnbou]

I'm not familiar with exactly what product you're talking about, but dextrose and maltodextrin are both pretty common ingredients in homebrewing.

Dextrose is the same as what most of us call corn sugar. Of course it is fermentable, but generally used mainly for priming. Too much in the wort is said to lead to cidery flavors but will boost your ABV.

Maltodextrin will have the opposite effect. It is a non-fermentable sugar and can be added to improve body, mouthfeel, and creaminess without increasing alcohol.

Not sure what you'd get by adding the stuff you're looking at, but you probably would want to use it sparingly.

 

[dttk0009]

Seems to be. Cooper's sells a Dextrose/Maltodextrin mix as 'Brew enhancer'. The dextrose will ferment out completely without adding any taste (as long as its not a significant amount of the beer), while the maltodextrin is intended to improve body/mouthfeel of the beer.

 

[Inodoro_Pereyra]

Thanks! that's exactly what I wanted to know.:rockin:

Basically, I'm looking for a way to sweeten my future beer. I know for most of you hop addicts here that may sound like blasphemy, but the fact is I don't like bitter stuff.
I've been looking for lactose everywhere around my place, but nobody carries it, so the idea of having something to sweeten the beer and at the same time to increase mouthfeel right where I buy most of my stuff is great.
I guess I will be buying a bag, soon.

 

[brewit2it]

Thanks! that's exactly what I wanted to know.:rockin:

Basically, I'm looking for a way to sweeten my future beer. I know for most of you hop addicts here that may sound like blasphemy, but the fact is I don't like bitter stuff.
I've been looking for lactose everywhere around my place, but nobody carries it, so the idea of having something to sweeten the beer and at the same time to increase mouthfeel right where I buy most of my stuff is great.
I guess I will be buying a bag, soon.

Are you sure there is nothing else in it? Maltodextrin is often in artificial sweeteners. Whats the name of the product? You should be able to find it online and read about it.

 

[Inodoro_Pereyra]

Well, I didn't pay as much attention to the name, as I paid to the ingredients...
It was a "Great Value" sweetener, that came in a big bag. In the bag it only said dextrose and maltodextrin. Don't they have to list all the ingredients when it comes to foods?

 

[Inodoro_Pereyra]

Ouch, found it.
I messed up, it was maltodextrin and sucralose.

Here it is:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-No-Calorie-Sweetener-9.7-oz/10533728#Ingredients

So...what's up with the sucralose?

 

[PolishStout]

sucralose = artificial sweetener

You've basically found generic Splenda. they use maltodextrin as a filler material because the sucralose is so incredibly sweet. the maltodextrin will ferment, but the sucralose likely will not because it's a higher complexity molecule that yeast likely won't be able to break apart (unless you added beano or amylopectin or whatever it is I recently stumbled upon people using). so you will end up with a very sweet beer.

 

[emjay]

sucralose = artificial sweetener

You've basically found generic Splenda. they use maltodextrin as a filler material because the sucralose is so incredibly sweet. the maltodextrin will ferment, but the sucralose likely will not because it's a higher complexity molecule that yeast likely won't be able to break apart (unless you added beano or amylopectin or whatever it is I recently stumbled upon people using). so you will end up with a very sweet beer.

A few inaccuracies here I figure I'll address (and might as well expand on!)

Maltodextrin will NOT ferment unless it's broken down into certain smaller sugars. At least, not by conventional ale/lager yeast. However, certain other yeasts - in particular, various species of Brettanomyces - will ferment it. But Brett is only used in an extremely small percentage of recipes and commercially available beers (Orval being probably the most well-known) and is usually considered to be a beer-spoiling organism. So maltodextrin is referred to as unfermentable, and is usually added to beer in order to add body to a possibly thin beer. Although some people specifically add it to lambics and similar beers in order to provide food for other microorganisms so that the main yeast can't hog and consume everything all by itself, since Brett and other critters work much more slowly.

Also, the enzyme you "stumbled on" is called amylase. Amylopectin (or just "pectin") is pretty much the opposite of amylase, because it's an unfermentable starch - this particular one actually being associated with (and present in high levels in) fruit, not grain. It is broken down, if necessary, by an enzyme nearly identical to amylase called pectinase.

Amylase is found in a specific form in Beano that is generally considered a very poor substitute for the stuff you can get from a homebrew supply shop, and educated homebrewers would all tell you not to use Beano. Heck, most people shouldn't even use pure powdered amylase unless they really know what they're doing because it will keep breaking down saccharide chains until there's nothing left to do, or the brewer manages to denature it. And speaking of denaturing, amylase carries a risk of introducing an infection to your beer because it cannot be effectively sanitized without counterproductively denaturing it (rendering it completely ineffective).

 

[maffewl]

I currently have a stout that I used Splenda on because our LHBS didn't have any lactose, nor did I want to wait for an order to be shipped. It will work fine for sweetening the beer as the yeast won't mess with it. But use the sweetener very sparingly as a little goes a long way. To get an idea of how much to add, I prepared a gallon of water and mixed small quantities of the Splenda in until I got the hint of sweetness I was looking for. Then took note of that amount and adjusted the number to my final batch size and added it at the end of the boil. It's not the perfect substitute for lactose, but for adding sweetness in a pinch, it'll work fine.

 

[Inodoro_Pereyra]

Thanks everybody for taking the time. I will be buying some soon, and try it on my chick pea brew, see how it goes.

Emjay: just a question about amylase: I was under the impression that you completely denatured the amylase, along with all the other enzymes in the wort, when you boiled it (actually, when you went over 170*F). Am I wrong?

 

[shawnbou]

+1 to what maffewl said. I've heard of people adding Splenda to backsweeten after fermentation, primarily with ciders and meads, but I'm sure it would work for a beer in a pinch.

On a more important note, I would LOVE to see your chickpea brew recipe. I love anything with those things in it.

 

[brewit2it]

Well, I didn't pay as much attention to the name, as I paid to the ingredients...
It was a "Great Value" sweetener, that came in a big bag. In the bag it only said dextrose and maltodextrin. Don't they have to list all the ingredients when it comes to foods?

That's what I figured. You probably don't want to add that to your homebrew. Actually in the 70's in the Great Brittain homebrew scene it was actually common to add a couple of artificial sweetener tablets to batches, but it's not something I would do.

If you really want to make your beer sweeter the easiest way (and cheapest) is to just cut down on the amount of hops. Other things you can do is increase malts with mostly unfermentable sugars like crystal malts. In fact you can make your own crystal malt and it comes out a lot like honey malt and will definitely increase sweetness, body and mouthfeel. The last thing is you can add lactose which will increase sweetness but again will increase body and viscosity. If you want to make a light color and body beer that is sweeter I would start with decreasing the bittering hops and work from there.

 

[emjay]

Thanks everybody for taking the time. I will be buying some soon, and try it on my chick pea brew, see how it goes.

Emjay: just a question about amylase: I was under the impression that you completely denatured the amylase, along with all the other enzymes in the wort, when you boiled it (actually, when you went over 170*F). Am I wrong?

You're right, but that's generally with regards to the amylase present in the grain. When people buy amylase powder, it's almost exclusively used in the fermentor, post-boil.

 

[Inodoro_Pereyra]

On a more important note, I would LOVE to see your chickpea brew recipe. I love anything with those things in it.

Once I get a half good recipe, I'll PM it to you. Don't see a lot of people here interested in that stuff...

If you really want to make your beer sweeter the easiest way (and cheapest) is to just cut down on the amount of hops. Other things you can do is increase malts with mostly unfermentable sugars like crystal malts. In fact you can make your own crystal malt and it comes out a lot like honey malt and will definitely increase sweetness, body and mouthfeel. The last thing is you can add lactose which will increase sweetness but again will increase body and viscosity. If you want to make a light color and body beer that is sweeter I would start with decreasing the bittering hops and work from there.

Ok, now's the time for you to provide a WHOLE LOTTA EXTRA INFO!!!
Seriously though, is there a site where I can find data on the differences between each type of malt, and how to malt them? I'd definitely LOVE to do some experimenting on that.

You're right, but that's generally with regards to the amylase present in the grain. When people buy amylase powder, it's almost exclusively used in the fermentor, post-boil.

Oh, didn't know that. But what's the purpose of using amylase in the fermentor?

 

[Ravenshead]

Once I get a half good recipe, I'll PM it to you. Don't see a lot of people here interested in that stuff...

That's just because we don't know to be interested. You need to post that one for all to see.

 

[Inodoro_Pereyra]

That's just because we don't know to be interested. You need to post that one for all to see.

Ok, will do. But I won't post a recipe of the swill I've been brewing so far...

 

[Ravenshead]

Concur, but you might want to start a chickpea brewing thread to get the rest of the mob involved. Sounds like a cool niche.

Full disclosure: I will probably never brew a chickpea based beer. That being said, someone else should not only do it but perfect it.

I will watch the fun until I can't stand not to join it.:fro:

 

[Inodoro_Pereyra]

Well, I wouldn't call it a chickpea "beer". I never used hops, nor barley, so technically it's not.
So far, the first batch I made (in which, curiously, I made basically every mistake in the book), was the best tasting one.

But we'll see. In a couple of weeks I'll taste my 4th batch. If it's half good, I'll post it.

 

[brewit2it]

Once I get a half good recipe, I'll PM it to you. Don't see a lot of people here interested in that stuff...



Ok, now's the time for you to provide a WHOLE LOTTA EXTRA INFO!!!
Seriously though, is there a site where I can find data on the differences between each type of malt, and how to malt them? I'd definitely LOVE to do some experimenting on that.



Oh, didn't know that. But what's the purpose of using amylase in the fermentor?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart

Here you go. You are looking for the ones that have an X in malty and sweet. You can steep them or use them along with base grains in partial mash or all grain recipes. I am talking about in beer, as far as making chick pea malted beverages you are on your own there:cross:

 

[shawnbou]

Well, I wouldn't call it a chickpea "beer". I never used hops, nor barley, so technically it's not.
So far, the first batch I made (in which, curiously, I made basically every mistake in the book), was the best tasting one.

But we'll see. In a couple of weeks I'll taste my 4th batch. If it's half good, I'll post it.

Can't wait. I am really excited about this idea. No pressure! :rockin:

If you don't wanna call it a beer, can we call it a chicha? Chickpeas are close enough to corn, right?

Maybe I just like that because my Sicilian grandparents call chickpeas "ciciri" (pronounced chee-char-ee). The idea of making a Ciciri Chicha is just ... awesome.

 

[Inodoro_Pereyra]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart

Here you go. You are looking for the ones that have an X in malty and sweet. You can steep them or use them along with base grains in partial mash or all grain recipes. I am talking about in beer, as far as making chick pea malted beverages you are on your own there:cross:

Thanks a lot! I've been reading on it, especially on how to make crystal malt. Tons of good info...:rockin:

Can't wait. I am really excited about this idea. No pressure! :rockin:

If you don't wanna call it a beer, can we call it a chicha? Chickpeas are close enough to corn, right?

Maybe I just like that because my Sicilian grandparents call chickpeas "ciciri" (pronounced chee-char-ee). The idea of making a Ciciri Chicha is just ... awesome.

I personally call it "chikka", as "chicha" is already taken. But then again, with the results I've been getting so far, you might as well call it "rat poison"...

 

[Carlitomarron]

Hi guys,
Writing from France. Any tips on a chickpea brew ? Looking for a recipe.
Thanks
O.


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