Sweet Success!

[Jester369]

Umm, no that is not chocolate - it is chocolate malt.

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Umm, no that is not chocolate - it is chocolate malt.

D'oh! I used chocolate. It's going in bottles today so I'll have to see what effects the difference are in 6 weeks. Damn I hope it didn't screw it up....

 

[elproducto]

Really? This should be interesting!

 

[Jester369]

I'm sure it will be fine - just different

 

[ILuvIPA]

This recipe looks great. I'm still intersted in some tasting notes on this on this one. Jester, you started this thread, help the bro out & give us a brew review?

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

I'm sure it will be fine - just different

Damn....Oh well.......

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

ok it's all bottled up now. Had half a bottle left at the end so instead of capping that one me and my buddy decided to sample it. It was so good we each opened a newly capped bottle and drank it! Looking forward to a fully carbonated taste.

I discovered that I lose about 1 1/2 gallons of water during the hour long boil. My plan for batch 2 is to cool the wort with approx 1 1/2 gallons worth of ice instead of using a wort chiller or simply waiting for it to cool. We used about 1/2 gallon worth of ice to speed up the cooling process in batch 1 with no apparent ill effects.

Don't know exactly how different it'll be from the original recipe with my mistake of using real chocolate instead of the chocolate malt, so far so good. I think in batch 2 I'm going to use less hops (about 1/2 as much) with the chocolate malt and real chocolate (hasn't hurt having it in there so far) and see how that pans out.

 

[Brewer_Bob]

Man, that is making me thirsty.

 

[ashort33]

ok it's all bottled up now. Had half a bottle left at the end so instead of capping that one me and my buddy decided to sample it. It was so good we each opened a newly capped bottle and drank it! Looking forward to a fully carbonated taste.

I discovered that I lose about 1 1/2 gallons of water during the hour long boil. My plan for batch 2 is to cool the wort with approx 1 1/2 gallons worth of ice instead of using a wort chiller or simply waiting for it to cool. We used about 1/2 gallon worth of ice to speed up the cooling process in batch 1 with no apparent ill effects.

Don't know exactly how different it'll be from the original recipe with my mistake of using real chocolate instead of the chocolate malt, so far so good. I think in batch 2 I'm going to use less hops (about 1/2 as much) with the chocolate malt and real chocolate (hasn't hurt having it in there so far) and see how that pans out.

That should be about 12lbs of ice... If you put in by volume, you will come out w/o enough water. Also, you can compute the temps with a bit of math: 3.5(212) + 1.5(32 deg) = 5 gal at 158 deg. You are going to need some more cooling...

 

[Jonnio]

Also be very careful with ice -- commercial ice, especially, is pretty prone to being full of bacteria. Your safer to buy a couple gallon jugs of spring water, pour a little out, freeze them and then when your ready sanitize the outside and cut it off.

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

excellent ideas/input, thanks guys. Hadn't really given much thought to the math of the cooling but you're right ashort, it will need more cooling. I think what I'll wind up doing is using all ice to chill and top off at the end of the boil which will bring me to approx 3 1/2 gallons of spring water ice then I'll let it sit outside (it'll be in the low 40's by then) to finish chilling...

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Ok tried a few after 10 days in the bottle to see how it's coming. Not bad, but far from the original Shed. Bearing in mind that I screwed up and used real chocolate instead of chocolate malt and it's only 10 days into a 3 week conditioning, but otherwise I was to the letter in the recipe. It might be a little premature to call it at 10 days but I don't think the complexity is going to drastically change in the next 2 weeks that will bring this any closer to the original Shed we're trying to duplicate.

I'm not a dark beer kind of guy so I was very skeptical when I tried the original Shed Mountain Ale (I find dark beers MUCH too bitter for my taste). I was blown away after the first sip. It was almost like they describe a heroin addiction; one try and you're hooked. So with that experience in mind I can judge what I have bottled now accurately and say it's not close. The hops in this recipe is WAAAAAAAY too bitter, there is zero creamy feel/taste, no hints of chocolate (because I screwed that up), no hints of vanilla and overall the hops overpowers any of these subtle flavors if they do exist in this recipe, which I don't think they do. These are crucial elements of the uniqueness of the original Shed Mountain Ale that make it so good, such a standout. It's as dark as three feet up a bulls ass but it doesn't exhibit any traditional dark beer bitterness shock to the tonque. I'd describe the original as a blend of a dark beer, lager and cream ale and this uniqueness is recognized by it being classified as a "specialty."

On a 10 scale the original is the benchmark 10. This recipe comes in around 6.5-7 on that scale. It's decent, I like it and I'll drink it all but only because I put so much effort and work into it.

The missing elements I described earlier are going to be addressed in my next batch this weekend. And of course I'm not going to make the mistake of screwing up the chocolate malt this time either. I'm completely changing the hops profile to reduce the bitterness by half, adding malto dextrose to try and create the creamy feel on the tongue and adding somewhere between 1/2 to 1 oz of vanilla and see where that takes us...

 

[Jester369]

Interesting that you find it so far from the original mountain ale. We did side by sides and it was clearly a good clone. The hop profile was spot on, and the flavors were very close. I know you did the chocolate thing but I can't believe it would have changed it so much for the worse. Two questions I would ask are what was the volume you boiled (hop utilization) and how long did it condition? Mine was three weeks in the keg before we tapped it. I wonder why your results are so different.

EDIT: just reread your post. 10 days in - got it! I need to read better.

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Interesting that you find it so far from the original mountain ale. We did side by sides and it was clearly a good clone. The hop profile was spot on, and the flavors were very close. I know you did the chocolate thing but I can't believe it would have changed it so much for the worse. Two questions I would ask are what was the volume you boiled (hop utilization) and how long did it condition? Mine was three weeks in the keg before we tapped it. I wonder why your results are so different.

EDIT: just reread your post. 10 days in - got it! I need to read better.

Ya, to me, what I have isn't close to the original Shed. I made another batch today with the aforementioned changes. The ole wait & see game now. I boiled the hops in 2 1/2 gallons and as it's conditioning it's getting stronger and not mellowing at all (had another two today as we were making the new batch...)

FWIW, using ice worked MUCH better than a wort chiller. It cooled the brew pronto. In fact, 2 gallons of ice cooled the 2 1/2 gallon wort from boiling to 50 degrees in 2 minutes! I had to boil & add a pot of water to warm it up to 65 degrees before I tossed the yeast in there.

And the saga continues...

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Interesting that you find it so far from the original mountain ale. We did side by sides and it was clearly a good clone. The hop profile was spot on, and the flavors were very close. I know you did the chocolate thing but I can't believe it would have changed it so much for the worse. Two questions I would ask are what was the volume you boiled (hop utilization) and how long did it condition? Mine was three weeks in the keg before we tapped it. I wonder why your results are so different.

EDIT: just reread your post. 10 days in - got it! I need to read better.

Ok, just as I thought.... I called the Shed today and talked to the brewmaster about their Mountain Ale. He said "there's very little hops in it. It has an IBU of 35." Take the meaning of "very little hops in it" as you wish, but the IBU of 35 is WAAAAAAAAAAAY far from the 76 this recipe claims. I knew it was MUCH too strong on the hops to be anywhere close to the original. The hops is too overpowering and you lose any ability to enjoy all the other flavors the original has.

Batch #2 is in the fermenter now and I went with a hops combo in the 25-30 IBU range, used the correct chocolate malt and a couple other additives that I felt were missing by comparison.

After talking to the brewmaster today I'm very excited about being headed in the right direction now...

 

[moostash]

Was so excited to see this recipe here! Do you think it's necessary to do a secondary?

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Was so excited to see this recipe here! Do you think it's necessary to do a secondary?

I don't know what others have done, but I didn't. I let it go in the primary for 2 weeks then bottled. It has gassed up very nicely...

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

OK this stuff has been in the bottle exactly 3 weeks now and it has turned out fantastic! It's not the same as the original Shed Mountain Ale but it's a very good unique taste in the same family of uniqueness found in the original. That is to say it's close, it's very good (everyone that has tried it has loved it, even non dark beer drinkers) and many of those that have tried it want me to make them a batch and if I try to meet the demand I'll have to cook up at least 100 gallons!

Here's where I went with my changes to the recipe:

2 oz. Briess Black Patent Malt (by the ounce)
2 oz. Muntons Chocolate Malt (by the ounce)
1 lb Carastan
8 oz. Caramel Wheat
2-3.3 lb Munton's Amber Liquid Malt Extract
2 lbs Muntons Wheat Dried Malt Extract (by the pound)

1 oz. Cascade Hops (US) - 1oz. Pellets
1 oz. Saaz Hops (Czech) - 1oz. Whole
1 oz. Tettnang Hops - 1oz. Pellets
Malto Dextrin - 4 oz.
1 lb KreamyX - Priming Sugar
1 oz. Vanilla Extract
Safael U.S. 50 yeast

Steep grains @ 155 degrees (get water to temp then turn off heat) for 45 minutes dunking in & out of water like tea bag
Bring to boil & add both 3.3 lb. cans of Amber LME & 2 lbs of DME
Toss ¾ oz of Cascade hops in boil for 60 minutes
Toss ½ oz of Saaz 20 minutes to flame out
Add 4 oz of Malto Dextrin 15 minutes to flame out
Toss ½ oz of Tettnang hops 5 minutes to flame out

Fill primary fermenter with 2 gallons of ice & 1 oz of Vanilla Extract.
Add wort to primary fermenter straining through screened funnel then fill with filtered water to 5 gallon mark on bucket to top off.
Cooled wort needs to be between 60 & 72 degrees.
Toss Yeast when wort is to temp.
Slap lid & air lock on it and wait 2 weeks then bottle and wait another 3 weeks.

The next batch is going to have the following changes to the above:

Use Dark malt extract instead of Amber (I ordered Amber by mistake)
Use 2 oz of vanilla instead of 1
Add 8 oz of 2 row to try to get better mouth feel

I'm planning to cook this next batch in about a week and I'll post the findings in a couple months.

Happy New Year everybody!

 

[mxwrench]

brewed this at 32 IBU. came out perfect

 

[Jette]

Amazing head, as others have said. It looks very delic!

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

brewed this at 32 IBU. came out perfect

I agree, it's WAAAAAAAAAY better at a lower IBU. The addition of Malto Dextrin gives it a sweet aftertaste that everyone has noticed and really liked. The vanilla I added helps to give the caramel more body and works really well also.

Amazing head, as others have said. It looks very delic!

I use Kreamy-X priming sugar and get a head like that every time. Great stuff.

Gonna cook up another batch this weekend with a few more little tweeks and see where that takes me...

 

[Amnesiac503]

OK this stuff has been in the bottle exactly 3 weeks now and it has turned out fantastic! It's not the same as the original Shed Mountain Ale but it's a very good unique taste in the same family of uniqueness found in the original. That is to say it's close, it's very good (everyone that has tried it has loved it, even non dark beer drinkers) and many of those that have tried it want me to make them a batch and if I try to meet the demand I'll have to cook up at least 100 gallons!

Here's where I went with my changes to the recipe:

2 oz. Briess Black Patent Malt (by the ounce)
2 oz. Muntons Chocolate Malt (by the ounce)
1 lb Carastan
8 oz. Caramel Wheat
2-3.3 lb Munton's Amber Liquid Malt Extract
2 lbs Muntons Wheat Dried Malt Extract (by the pound)

1 oz. Cascade Hops (US) - 1oz. Pellets
1 oz. Saaz Hops (Czech) - 1oz. Whole
1 oz. Tettnang Hops - 1oz. Pellets
Malto Dextrin - 4 oz.
1 lb KreamyX - Priming Sugar
1 oz. Vanilla Extract
Safael U.S. 50 yeast

Steep grains @ 155 degrees (get water to temp then turn off heat) for 45 minutes dunking in & out of water like tea bag
Bring to boil & add both 3.3 lb. cans of Amber LME & 2 lbs of DME
Toss ¾ oz of Cascade hops in boil for 60 minutes
Toss ½ oz of Saaz 20 minutes to flame out
Add 4 oz of Malto Dextrin 15 minutes to flame out
Toss ½ oz of Tettnang hops 5 minutes to flame out

Fill primary fermenter with 2 gallons of ice & 1 oz of Vanilla Extract.
Add wort to primary fermenter straining through screened funnel then fill with filtered water to 5 gallon mark on bucket to top off.
Cooled wort needs to be between 60 & 72 degrees.
Toss Yeast when wort is to temp.
Slap lid & air lock on it and wait 2 weeks then bottle and wait another 3 weeks.

The next batch is going to have the following changes to the above:

Use Dark malt extract instead of Amber (I ordered Amber by mistake)
Use 2 oz of vanilla instead of 1
Add 8 oz of 2 row to try to get better mouth feel

I'm planning to cook this next batch in about a week and I'll post the findings in a couple months.

Happy New Year everybody!

Reviving a thread here but I had a question about this recipe. I really want to give it a try but I was curious as to what your target OG and FG were? Also, did you make another batch using the 2 oz of vanilla instead of 1 oz, and if so which one turned out better do you think? Thanks!

 

[Jester369]

I appreciate all the dialog with regards to my beer, but I think it is time for a new thread with Rolling Thunders variation. I respect your opinions, but I have to say that I like my recipe just fine. Cheers!

 

[Amnesiac503]

I'm going to make Rolling Thunder's recipe and my friend is going to make yours and we are going to compare, don't worry I'm not picking one over the other. Cheers to you too sir

 

[cg17]

*adds RT's recipe to list*

 

[Jester369]

I'm going to make Rolling Thunder's recipe and my friend is going to make yours and we are going to compare, don't worry I'm not picking one over the other. Cheers to you too sir

Not worried at all, picking is fine! Not everyone is going to like every recipe.

I just think that RT's recipe is different enough that it deserves it's own thread. For me, the hop bill is a nice balance to the malt. The only time I felt the hops were too much was the one time I did a full boil and didn't adjust for the extra hop utilization. Drinking a (properly done) batch right now that, to me, seems very well balanced.

 

[Amnesiac503]

I didn't see either one of your guys recipes in the recipes forums or else I would have asked there for sure. What is your target OG and FG with your recipe Jester? I must say your brew looks delicious, love the contrast between a dark dark beer and milky head (that sounded wrong). Since you have made many batches of this what have you found is the right amount of time in the primary and how long do you let it condition in the bottles?

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Reviving a thread here but I had a question about this recipe. I really want to give it a try but I was curious as to what your target OG and FG were? Also, did you make another batch using the 2 oz of vanilla instead of 1 oz, and if so which one turned out better do you think? Thanks!

I didn't take OG measurements so I don't know, regretably. I did make another batch with the changes you're asking about, however, changes are as follows:

One 3.3 lb can of Liquid Amber Extract
One 3.3 lb can of Liquid Dark Extract
3 ozs of Chocolate malt
8 ozs of 2 row
2.5 ozs of vanilla

Everything else was the same. Believe it or not this batch has been fermenting for 4 weeks!! It just settled down yesterday and I plan to bottle this weekend so I won't know how this turned out for about 3 weeks.

Interstingly something I forgot to mention was the color in the brew I wound up with wasn't the dark black as seen in Jester's pic. I wound up with a rich Amber color that produced the same head. That got me thinking about what might be possibly wrong with the recipe as it relates to the original Shed which led me to think about how to darken both the color and taste but drive it in a palatable direction that honors the original Shed Mountain Ale. This was the reason for the change in the liquid malt extract to one Amber & one Dark and the addition of an extra ounce of chocolate malt, the 2 row & vanilla.

The batch previous was VERY well received and of the dozen people that tried it only 1 didn't like it and he prefers a much stronger IBU, which apparently Jester does too. In fact that batch was so well liked I've been pestered almost daily since I ran out about when this batch is going to be ready. It's gotten so bad I didn't tell anyone I made this batch so I can avoid the constant nagging...lol They're like a bunch of crack addicts! In retrospect it was a good thing I didn't let them know I made this batch. The 4 week fermentation of this batch would have made them berserk with anticipation.

Jester- my apologies. I didn't mean to stomp through your garden. Your recipe gave me a good starting point/base to work from. I'll start a new thread and continue the journey there.

Have a great weekend!

 

[Jester369]

Jester- my apologies. I didn't mean to stomp through your garden.

No apologies needed! I just felt that we are talking about two very different beers at this point.

 

[Toasted678]

What is a good temp to ferment this monster at?

Also, what yeast is prime for this bill? Jester you said Safale 56... was that supposed to be Safale 5?

I too am super glad this thread got resurrected because this is now my on deck brew.

Thank you as always Jester!
-You're like the HomeBrewTalk MVP.