Surly Abrasive clone

[theveganbrewer]

I brewed this a few weeks back, pitched a 2 liter starter. My original gravity was 1.072 so my efficiency was off so i added some extra light dme to kicked it up a few points, but not bad for my first all grain brew! I dry hopped in the secondary with 3 oz of citra for 7 days then added another ounce for the final 3 days. I roused the hops every few days. I bottled this stuff today and peeled off some for tasting. WOW! Just like the real thing, especially the smell, it is right on. As far as I can tell so far, the flavor is damn close, but I won't know for sure until its conditioned, I can't wait!

Awesome, you're lucky to have some real ones close by too. Glad your first all-grain went so well.

 

[Chug]

I brewed this a few weeks back, pitched a 2 liter starter. My original gravity was 1.072 so my efficiency was off so i added some extra light dme to kicked it up a few points, but not bad for my first all grain brew! I dry hopped in the secondary with 3 oz of citra for 7 days then added another ounce for the final 3 days. I roused the hops every few days. I bottled this stuff today and peeled off some for tasting. WOW! Just like the real thing, especially the smell, it is right on. As far as I can tell so far, the flavor is damn close, but I won't know for sure until its conditioned, I can't wait!

Nice, which recipe did you go with?

 

[legasus233]

I brewed the all grain recipe posted by theveganbrewer on page 2 of this thread. It seemed to match Surlys ingredients (listed on the website) the closest and fits the pattern they use for all of their brews.

The real thing came out this past week and so I grabbed a 4 pack for comparison. The color and aroma are spot on, flavor comp is yet to come.

 

[legasus233]

The key is definately mashing low though to achieve the proper dry characteristics of Abrasive. Mine is definately dry which for this beer is perfect. I started my mash (using a 10 gallon Coleman cooler) at just under 150 and after an hour it was down to 146.5. It attenuated all the way down to 1.011!

 

[theveganbrewer]

Thanks for the update on the real Abrasive, gotta keep my eye out for it online. I hope I can find an online retailer that'll have it in stock. I read they are running Abrasive from now through March.

 

[Chug]

Anybody else get that onion-like quality with Abrasive? When I do attempt to brew this, I'm gonna have a hard time not throwing some Summit hops in there.

 

[zachary80]

Thanks for the update on the real Abrasive, gotta keep my eye out for it online. I hope I can find an online retailer that'll have it in stock. I read they are running Abrasive from now through March.

I've seen it at France44 before, last winter I think, but the shipping price kept me from ordering. Shipping beer across the country unfortunately can't be cheap.

Anybody else get that onion-like quality with Abrasive? When I do attempt to brew this, I'm gonna have a hard time not throwing some Summit hops in there.

I haven't tasted that in Abrasive, nor really heard it with the given hops. Normally I see that mentioned specifically with summit hopped beers like Gubna - do you want to add/enhance an onion type flavor?

 

[Chug]

I've seen it at France44 before, last winter I think, but the shipping price kept me from ordering. Shipping beer across the country unfortunately can't be cheap.



I haven't tasted that in Abrasive, nor really heard it with the given hops. Normally I see that mentioned specifically with summit hopped beers like Gubna - do you want to add/enhance an onion type flavor?

I don't want to add or change anything, Abrasive is probably the best IIPA I've ever had! My palate isn't perfect but I have personally gotten a slight hint of onion with Abrasive in the past which leads me to believe they may use some summit. I haven't gotten my hands on this years yet, maybe I need to refresh my memory

 

[legasus233]

Thanks for the update on the real Abrasive, gotta keep my eye out for it online. I hope I can find an online retailer that'll have it in stock. I read they are running Abrasive from now through March.

You would definitely be blown away by it. I have had many good IIPA's, but Abrasive is on a whole other planet, all alone. I would be happy to grab you some and work out a trade if you would like. PM me for more info if you are interested...

 

[theveganbrewer]

Summit is really strong in the onion/garlic department. There are some other hops that can produce onion in a slightly more subdued manner, and Citra is a hop that can actually have oniony notes and Columbus too sometimes.

 

[shizzyraw]

Merwin's has Abrasive in stock now.

http://www.shopmerwins.com/893354001096.html

Just received mine today. Tastes so good it makes me want to learn to brew just so I can make nothing but this. That's kinda how I found this thread....

 

[theveganbrewer]

Merwin's has Abrasive in stock now.

http://www.shopmerwins.com/893354001096.html

Just received mine today. Tastes so good it makes me want to learn to brew just so I can make nothing but this. That's kinda how I found this thread....

Merwin has a good reputation? Have only read about France44 and been waiting on them to put abrasive up forever. With a min. order of 40 bucks at Merwin, that's coming to 75 to ship to me for two 4 packs of Abrasive and a 4 pack of coffee bender. 6 bucks a beer, not too bad really. But I can make 15 gallons of this for 50 bucks.

 

[shizzyraw]

Merwin has a good reputation? Have only read about France44 and been waiting on them to put abrasive up forever. With a min. order of 40 bucks at Merwin, that's coming to 75 to ship to me for two 4 packs of Abrasive and a 4 pack of coffee bender. 6 bucks a beer, not too bad really. But I can make 15 gallons of this for 50 bucks.

Yeah Merwin's is most definitely on the up and up. A bit more low key than France44 which is a very good thing. WET came and want so fast on 44 that most people assumed it never went up which could be what happened with Abrasive.

 

[brplatz]

Planning on making an Abrasive Clone, anyone used this recipe in a while?

 

[theveganbrewer]

Planning on making an Abrasive Clone, anyone used this recipe in a while?

I've done my version twice now and love it. I've never had the real thing though. I am getting a shipment of Abrasive Friday and will taste and see if my recipe was right or not and brew it again this weekend or next.

 

[brplatz]

I've done my version twice now and love it. I've never had the real thing though. I am getting a shipment of Abrasive Friday and will taste and see if my recipe was right or not and brew it again this weekend or next.

Awesome, gonna try and find some Citra out here and give it a whirl

No changes to the original setup? Mash at 148 etc?

 

[theveganbrewer]

Not that I know of at this time, my Abrasive will come Friday. I had a bunch of BMC drinkers kick my first keg in less than a day, it's tasty. I think it came out a few points of SRM light based off of another poster's comments, but it's hard to tell in photos. I'd probably try it like it is.

 

[brplatz]

Not that I know of at this time, my Abrasive will come Friday. I had a bunch of BMC drinkers kick my first keg in less than a day, it's tasty. I think it came out a few points of SRM light based off of another poster's comments, but it's hard to tell in photos. I'd probably try it like it is.

Sounds good, ill do that.

Can't remember if it was stated or not, but what kinda time did it stay in primary/secondary? I do bottle

 

[theveganbrewer]

Two weeks then dryhop for 10 days, then bottle. If you're not brewing till the weekend, I'll try to remember and post on here Friday night if there was anything off in my recipe that I remember after tasting the real thing. The one thing I found original with this beer was the taste of the oats, so I want to see if it's noticeable in the real thing. Were you able to get them? The Naked Oats?

 

[brplatz]

Two weeks then dryhop for 10 days, then bottle. If you're not brewing till the weekend, I'll try to remember and post on here Friday night if there was anything off in my recipe that I remember after tasting the real thing. The one thing I found original with this beer was the taste of the oats, so I want to see if it's noticeable in the real thing. Were you able to get them? The Naked Oats?

I can get them online for sure, but I am checking my local shop tomorrow. Probably wont brew this weekend. Most likely the next

 

[legasus233]

I emailed Todd Haug from Surly asking for help on this because mine wound up with a "hot" off flavor. My problem was two fold, I fermented too high especially during high krausen (73-75). Also, I used corn sugar. Todd indicated they ferment Abrasive at 66 degrees and also said using brewers crystals is essential to produce the right flavor. Be sure to use Golden Naked Oats, not flaked oats.

 

[theveganbrewer]

I emailed Todd Haug from Surly asking for help on this because mine wound up with a "hot" off flavor. My problem was two fold, I fermented too high especially during high krausen (73-75). Also, I used corn sugar. Todd indicated they ferment Abrasive at 66 degrees and also said using brewers crystals is essential to produce the right flavor. Be sure to use Golden Naked Oats, not flaked oats.

Thanks for the intel. Here's a bit on brewer's crystals in case any folks haven't heard of them:

"Granulated corn syrup solids with dextrose mostly converted to maltose, ~56%. This sugar mimics the fermentable/unfermentable ratio of sugars of barley malt wort. A good gravity booster when additional alcohol and dextrines are desired but additional malt flavor, aroma and color are not.

So when I did the recipe I knew of the BC but couldn't find any. I personally don't think that if they're using less than 5, maybe 10 percent, you won't taste it. Perhaps a reasonable substitute would be a dextrose/malodextrine combo?

I think the key to this recipe is the % of Golden Naked Oats in the recipe. When I crack one today I should be able to tell if my initial percentage was too high or too low, GNO are very unique in taste.

 

[bobbrews]

Then, Brewers Crystals (dextrose converted 56% of the way to maltose) seem like they would just benefit the beer more since we want the yeast to get busy on maltose and maltriose, not so much glucose, sucrose, and fructose.

I think the key to this recipe is the % of Golden Naked Oats in the recipe.

Probably only 3-4% I'm assuming. Or perhaps plain Fawcett Oat Malt.

 

[legasus233]

I sent Todd the all grain recipe from here posted by theveganbrewer after he responded to my initial email. I basically asked him if we were on the right track and he hasn't yet responded. Not sure if that is because he is too busy or that the recipe is so close that he doesn't want to tip his hand

Also, I know that based on my multiple tours of the brewery, Surly relies on 0 minute additions for Furious and Abrasive (in this case Citra) and centrifuge to remove their hops, yeast, etc. This addition really accentuates the unreal hop flavor and aroma that is immediately noticeable. This is one thing for the homebrew version I did that was really missing. The smells and flavors were on and there, just not to nearly the same level as the real thing. There is actually a video on youtube that I have linked. I think this process can't be replicated by homebrewers and will in my opinion make it difficult to come up with an identical clone. Based on the last tour I was on, I was led to believe this centrifuge process really puts the hop flavor and aroma over the top. Brew on friends, Cheers!

 

[theveganbrewer]

Cool video. I wonder what he means when he said they get better aroma when using the centrifuge. I have read some research that says it gives better aroma per unit of hops, giving breweries the ability to use less hops and get the same or more out of them. I think that is what he's getting at, since he goes on later to talk about how the ingredients are all becoming more expensive, and this centrifuge is a way to get the same hop flavor while using less hops.

I think homebrewers can do a few things to get killer aroma and they all happen after the burner gets turned off. First, let the whirlpool hops steep, don't be afraid of letting the beer sit for a while before chilling. Second, think that everything that touches your beer after the burner gets turned off is only out to remove your precious hop aroma. Try to keep the beer out of contact with as much as possible. That also means not dryhopping when the yeast is still in suspension. Third, dryhop warm, 65 degrees or better, for optimal flavor extraction. Lastly, rouse the hops during the dryhop and keep them moving through the beer. You will extract significantly more aroma this way. I prefer dryhopping in a warm keg and letting it sit at room temperature while dryhopping and either shooting a few shots of CO2 through the liquid out tube to rouse the hops or if they're in a weighted bag, rolling the keg gently back and forth every few hours to move it around.

 

[brplatz]

Some awesome info in this here thread! I am looking forward to what Tom has to say in the email back.

I am gonna hit my brew shop here in a few, see what they have and pick up some goodies.

I dont have any yeast starter stuff, so that may be a good idea

 

[theveganbrewer]

The question is, who's going to buy a centrifuge and test this out??

 

[brplatz]

Tried to find my local shop, Aparrently they closed! So that's gone poorly

 

[theveganbrewer]

Tried to find my local shop, Aparrently they closed! So that's gone poorly

Not a good start, hang in there.

 

[theveganbrewer]

Finally tasted the real thing tonight! I'd say after the taste and reading bobbrews, I'd agree, the naked oats need to come down, probably to 10 ounces, or maybe even 8. Mine was quite a bit nuttier than the real thing. As far as hops, you can get this aroma with the recipe, just focus on whirlpool and dryhop warm.