Super Simple 15G Plastic Conical

[jcorn]

Just remember the 15 gallon ones are Medium Density Polyethylene (MDPE) - not suitable for long term beer storage due to oxygen permeation. Make sure you source HDPE for longer term storage/aging.

I swear I never noticed the medium density description when I bought mine 2 years ago. I wonder if they were hdpe then. The picture looks alot different then the one (decals and design) I bought back then.
How long is medium density good for holding such acidic beers?

 

[FredTheNuke]

Per Wild Brews MDPE has very high oxygen permeation - the chart is posted earlier in this thread. The only 2 verified HDPE Conicals I have found online are the Den Hartog Ace Roto blow molded 35 and 60 gallons models that come with bolt on legs.

 

[jcorn]

Per Wild Brews MDPE has very high oxygen permeation - the chart is posted earlier in this thread. The only 2 verified HDPE Conicals I have found online are the Den Hartog Ace Roto blow molded 35 and 60 gallons models that come with bolt on legs.

Are we even sure that food grade plastic fermenters are not mdpe? I mean mdpe is still considered a food grade. I have amazing beers with my plastic fermenters. Although I would guess that they are all hdpe (7.9 gallon wine buckets used for beer. Plenty of headspace)

 

[SavoryChef]

MDPE is made from a mixture of LDPE and HDPE

http://books.google.com/books?id=Km...density polyethylene oxygen permeable&f=false

 

[jcorn]

MDPE is made from a mixture of LDPE and HDPE

http://books.google.com/books?id=Km...density polyethylene oxygen permeable&f=false

I wonder why they still call it food grade if it is oxygen permeable?

I wonder how long you could ferment in that type of fermenter without alot of oxygen leaking into it?

Couldn't you just paint it to protect it from exposure? Or cover it with something? All of mybrews have turned out good in the 15 gallon and I have left them in there upto 3 weeks before kegging and that is without tightly sealing the thing.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Read here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/hdpe-solera-231285/index3.html#post5592254

The homebrew buckets are HDPE but allow 220 cc/L of O2 in per year. The conical HDPE allows only 20 while a glass carboy with silicone stopper is at 17. A wine barrel is at 8.5 - which is exactly what you want for a non sour. I'm am guessing a sour will be ok with a bit of acetic acid per the 20 rating. We shall find out as my Solera ages...

We shall see if the new American Sours book has more detailed information.... Old Sock - hint - hint...

 

[Oldsock]

The big issue with buckets is the lid, not the plastic in my professional opinion.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Here is more oxygen permeability information for HDPE fermentation tanks.

http://www.flextank.com.au/PDF_Files/Brochure 2010 Screw-Tops.pdf

http://www.flextank.com.au/PDF_Files/Cube Brochure 2010.pdf

Been researching further looking for more sources of HDPE conicals. The Den Hartog ones are good but I'm always game for a newer/better/cheaper variation - especially if I can find a way to fit more conicals in my brewery....

 

[allclene]

If any of you have Beersmith and get the newsletter, the newest newsletter I received was all about plastic versus glass fermenters. They said that the plastic disadvantage is that it will scratch eventually and make it harder to sterilize (bacteria loves to hide in the scratches). Other than that food grade plastic is just fine for fermenting as long as you can seal it from outside air like you do a glass carboy and take extra care on sterilization. They did say also that eventually it will absorb flavors etc. as it gets porous enough to do so.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Perfect for a lambic solera. It will harbor the bacteria strains just like a barrel!


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[eaglerisingbrew]

I haven't used my conical yet as the system is not ready. But thanks for all the good discussion about the plastics. Here's the system as of a little bit of welding this afternoon. Still several weeks off from being operational...

 

[DuffyBros]

I have the 15g now.. Looking to get a 40gallon for my new 1BBL system. Anyone know why they advertise the IN0040-24 as a "full drain" even the it's the open flow style? To my knowledge the don't even make a INFD40-24.. The next full drain size is the 55G and that's probably too big


Duffy & Sons Brewing DuffyBeer.com

 

[SavoryChef]

Open flow is full drain I believe

 

[DuffyBros]

As far as I know INFD40 would be Full Drain..


Duffy & Sons Brewing DuffyBeer.com

 

[eaglerisingbrew]

I was able to get some more welding done on my frame and it all fits in the fridge. Now to get the thermowell in the tank and the heat source mounted.

 

[KingBubbaTruck]

Looking good!

 

[roadrocket13]

i dont know if some on mentioned this yet. but you can get these ace rotomold tanks at ruralking.com and they have free shipping on orders over $49. i just got my 30gal full drain there. also a good place for cheap SS ball valves is directmaterial.com i got a 1 1/2" SS one piece ball valve for $28.52,

just thought the info might help someone

Good find! thanks for the share. some good prices here.

 

[Artifishal]

Sorry if this has been discussed. I read every word up to page 7 then got antsy for my answer. Is there any reason not to drain the trub early and often? I'm on day 4 of my first batch and really want to open that valve to see what comes out.

...So, any thoughts on if I should open it or wait a few more days?

Here's my 15 gallon conical in my garage work bench fermentation chamber. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1418938879.659639.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1418938906.511074.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1418938931.416744.jpg

 

[Huaco]

Too late... DON'T dump during active fermentation. You risk dumping yeast that needs to stay in there an finish it's job.

Try this on your next batch...

If you want to dump trub (and it's advised that you do so) then it must be done prior to pitching yeast. Your additions such as Irish Moss or Whirlflock tablets will encourage the cold break proteins to precipitate and drop out of suspension. Give your wort several hours to accomplish this and then open the valve to dump what's there. After the trub is eliminated you should oxygenate and pitch...

 

[Artifishal]

Good to know. Thank you. No it's not too late I have not opened it yet. I will add Irish moss and wait an hour before I pitch next batch. I do not have a way to aerate though. Thoughts?

 

[Artifishal]

I'm also having a 1 1/2" to 3" pvc adapter milled out a tiny bit wider on the 3" side so I can cut the top off of a Nalgene bottle and glue it in with the pvc glue, so I will have a clear trap for next time. Here's a picture of someone else's who used clear pvc. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1418943736.326580.jpg

 

[SavoryChef]

Good to know. Thank you. No it's not too late I have not opened it yet. I will add Irish moss and wait an hour before I pitch next batch. I do not have a way to aerate though. Thoughts?

I use a long whisk.

 

[Huaco]

Aeration can be accomplished by shaking or disturbing the wort violently by other mechanical means. This is only considered aeration and will yield minimal dissolved oxygen into the wort. You can greatly increase the ppm of dissolved oxygen in the chilled wort by using a diffusion stone and pure oxygen from a bottle.

I use medical oxygen bottles with an adjustable regulator to keep the flow at 1 liter per minute. I combine that with a diffusion stone on a stainless steel tube/wand and stir while I inject oxygen for 90-120 seconds.

You can read more in the following links.

http://www.txbrewing.com/storeblog/...aeration-home-brewing-oxygenation-components/

http://byo.com/videos/item/1894-aerating-wort-techniques

 

[Artifishal]

Thank you. I've read about that. Too advanced for me right now. I do have a wine aeration stick that hooks up to a drill but not sure if it is worth the contamination risk.

My Nalgene Fermentation Chaber trub and yeast cake collection vessel is ready. I'm excited to use it on the next batch. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1419015624.570808.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1419015702.990422.jpg

 

[Huaco]

USE THE AERATION STICK.

Sanitize it... the risk is low for infection and the benefits are VAST with quality of finished beer that has been aerated or oxygenated.

 

[Artifishal]

My first experience with the conical did not go as smooth as expected. The beer turned out excellent but the conical did not do its job. I opened the 1 1/2" valve after a week and nothing came out. It was compacted in there so tight not even a drop. I was able to coax it out with a spoon but was not expecting to have to do that. Then when I went to open the bottling upper valve to take a reading nothing came out of that either. Just had to use the thief instead. Their is a brown ale in it now and the Nalgene bottle trap is on this time with the valve open. I can see action of little yeast rockets in it. Very cool imo. To fix the bottling valve issue, a $0.60 3/4" threaded pvc elbow from Menards should block settling yeast cake and Traub from filling and clogging it. I will share how this all goes in a few days.

Please share how your experiences with it have been going and or if you have any tips for me.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Your issue is the reason to install a yeast trap - then you don't get a stuck conical outlet. But you have to make sure your trap is sized big enough to contain maximum trub and yeast for your conical size. worst case it is a bit big and you lose a small amount of beer when switching from your yeast trap to your drain fitting. With a yeast trap there Is no need to use the upper conical drain fitting - you lose even more beer when using it.

 

[Artifishal]

Your issue is the reason to install a yeast trap - then you don't get a stuck conical outlet. But you have to make sure your trap is sized big enough to contain maximum trub and yeast for your conical size. worst case it is a bit big and you lose a small amount of beer when switching from your yeast trap to your drain fitting. With a yeast trap there Is no need to use the upper conical drain fitting - you lose even more beer when using it.

Thank you for confirming that. I hope my trap is big enough. I have only read up to pace nine in this topic so far and several people said a one quart trap is sufficient for a ten gallon batch. I sure hope so. Won't know for a few more days. I checked kit today and it was full, but I can not see where the goo stops and the beer starts due to the pvc.

Once I do remove it, I plan to let it sit in secondary for another week. At the end of that there will be a bit more yeast cake and I assume I can drain that off then go straight to corny with a tube as to avoid mixing too much oxygen in.

Thoughts?

 

[matt99004]

Nice thing about a conical is that it often eliminates the need to move to a secondary. I no longer rack to a secondary at all.

 

[FredTheNuke]

I guess it depends on the type of beer you are brewing but I can tell you that a 4700 mL liquid volume yeast trap is twice as big as you need for a 60 gallon batch of beer.... I can see my Trube level as I have clear PVC in that section. Pictures are in the thread called HDPE conical.