Super light blonde color for IPA

[Little_Lebowski]

Do you siphon with co2?
Meaning do you push it into the keg with co2?
Similar to this:

http://www.metabrewing.com/2014/08/avoiding-oxygen-when-kegging-co2.html?m=1

I do not have the ability to do that yet. Been wanting to but don't honestly recall my beers getting darker during this phase in the game.

 

[jerbrew]

Keep in mind if you reduce the intensity of your flame you're reducing the amount of heat going into your kettle. while you're boiling if there's less heat then there's less evaporation. So if you're at a vigorous boil and that's where you're getting your boil off rate you may find it will change at a less vigorous boil. Something to think about when collecting your wort.

 

[Little_Lebowski]

These two beers are from a Lord Hobo 6 pack of a Citra Session IPA.
Don't remember the name.

As you can see things can get wonky with beer...

If you've used 2-row and oats as the grain bill you should be able to get a lighter color. It's either ph, oxidation and/or packaging causing your issue.

I appreciate what you're saying but I def have to rule out pH. As I said before.. I monitor it closely. Secondly, before I even started getting into specifics with water additions my pH levels were even lower than they are now.

 

[leesmith]

Ok...then when you dry hop is fermentation over with or do you add at the tail end of fermentation?

Also...when do the beers take on a deeper color?

 

[Little_Lebowski]

Keep in mind if you reduce the intensity of your flame you're reducing the amount of heat going into your kettle. while you're boiling if there's less heat then there's less evaporation. So if you're at a vigorous boil and that's where you're getting your boil off rate you may find it will change at a less vigorous boil. Something to think about when collecting your wort.

Sorry you lost me a little there... You're saying ultimately lower the heat?

 

[Little_Lebowski]

Ok...then when you dry hop is fermentation over with or do you add at the tail end of fermentation?

Also...when do the beers take on a deeper color?

I dry hop twice. Once at the tail end and once a few days before I keg

im not quite sure but I'd bet it was outta the kettle mostly and possibly out of the mash as well. Maybe a combination of both. Maybe I am boiling too strong and too hot.

 

[Little_Lebowski]

Post boil of the hop hands recipe. This is a 7.5 gallon kettle which I'm
Upgrading to a 15 gallon later this month (anything to do with it??). Also I collect about 6.5 into the kettle which is pretty close to the top and you can see where I ended up there. And that includes the displacement with the chiller submerged also

 

[JordanKnudson]

I appreciate what you're saying but I def have to rule out pH. As I said before.. I monitor it closely. Secondly, before I even started getting into specifics with water additions my pH levels were even lower than they are now.

Last little question before you rule out pH (only because this is an elusive problem and we're having to check every possible nook and cranny). Do you adjust your pH readings for temperature? pH reads differently based on temp (like gravity), so for example, if you are measuring a 5.3 pH at mash temp, it may actually be 5.6-5.7 at room temperature. Depending on the actual numbers, this could or could not cause problems.

 

[Jwin]

It is possible I'm boiling too hot but like I said everywhere I've read and heard urges a vigorous boil.

Listen to the latest episode of Brew Strong on BN about thermal load. You'll hear some naysayers of vigorous boil including some guy named Jamil and some guy called Jon Blickman.

 

[jerbrew]

Sorry you lost me a little there... You're saying ultimately lower the heat?

Sorry I think i commented thinking I was at the end of the thread but there was a whole conversion after. Someone said to reduce the boil and boil longer to eliminate DMS not boil rigorously. It's easy to end up with way too much wort at the end of a boil if you have numbers for what you usually dothen reduce your heat significantly. that is all i'll hang my head in shame now...

 

[Little_Lebowski]

Last little question before you rule out pH (only because this is an elusive problem and we're having to check every possible nook and cranny). Do you adjust your pH readings for temperature? pH reads differently based on temp (like gravity), so for example, if you are measuring a 5.3 pH at mash temp, it may actually be 5.6-5.7 at room temperature. Depending on the actual numbers, this could or could not cause problems.

My meter is supposed to automatically adjust for temp. Whether it does or not I sure hope so

 

[m1k3]

As for the pils, I may look into that again. Used it once for a Gandhi not clone two years ago but even that was darker Amber color

100% Pils should not be "amber"

This beer is Pils + Mosaic SMaSH (but then dry hopped with 4oz Citra in 5 gallons).

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1468617627.653642.jpg

 

[JordanKnudson]

100% Pils should not be "amber"

I thought the same thing, based on his wording, but in a later post he mentioned that that beer had also used darker specialty malts, making that particular example of his moot as far as this thread is concerned.

 

[eric19312]

Any reason to suspect your grain source? Those all seem pretty orange for the grain bills mentioned. I do a direct fire mash which adds some caramelization and vigorous boil and still end up with this in a recipe that is 78% 2-row, 14% marris otter, 8% C20 and 5.9% ABV (1.055 OG).

Also I don't worry about HSA (I freely recirculate with exposure to atmosphere) and don't purge kegs with CO2 before filling.

 

[Little_Lebowski]

100% Pils should not be "amber"

This beer is Pils + Mosaic SMaSH (but then dry hopped with 4oz Citra in 5 gallons).

View attachment 362213

I don't recall saying 100% pils. I fact I did mention there were other specialty malts to get it to an orange color

 

[m1k3]

I don't recall saying 100% pils. I fact I did mention there were other specialty malts to get it to an orange color

It said you used Pils in the "Gandhi not clone". But no percentage.

Guess I was just looking for an excuse to show off that photo of my beer!
I love Pils and use it 100% quite often.

 

[arnobg]

Golden Promise.....end of debate.

 

[arnobg]

100% Pils should not be "amber"

This beer is Pils + Mosaic SMaSH (but then dry hopped with 4oz Citra in 5 gallons).

View attachment 362213

That looks and sounds delicious. I have a bunch of Citra and Mosaic to use, how did it turn out?

 

[Little_Lebowski]

I'm pretty sure after all the talk it's going to be a combination of getting raising my efficiency, controlling a hot rapid boil, and utilizing lighter malts... Specifically malted oats which I know the beers I'm drinking from TH are using

 

[hopbrad]

beer that is cloudy will look a bit lighter too. you mentioned tired hands. their hop forward beers are great. try using their yeast wyeast 1318 or conan, they notoriously dont floc well so you should get some cloudiness, along with the oat and wheat.
i thought o2 exposure could be your problem but since you keg and your process sounds good. make sure you purge the headspace too (if your not already doing so)
I still think Pils, wheat(or in this case, oats) and sub in .5-1lb of sugar will get you where you want. go for a lower abv like 5.5-5.8% range. big hop stand with mosaic, conan or wyeast 1318...a la tired hands type of brew.
i never thought of the scorching factor, but give a less strong boil a try too. 75-90 min boil with pils just to make sure.
give the Northeast style IPA thread a read.

 

[Little_Lebowski]

beer that is cloudy will look a bit lighter too. you mentioned tired hands. their hop forward beers are great. try using their yeast wyeast 1318 or conan, they notoriously dont floc well so you should get some cloudiness, along with the oat and wheat.
i thought o2 exposure could be your problem but since you keg and your process sounds good. make sure you purge the headspace too (if your not already doing so)
I still think Pils, wheat(or in this case, oats) and sub in .5-1lb of sugar will get you where you want. go for a lower abv like 5.5-5.8% range. big hop stand with mosaic, conan or wyeast 1318...a la tired hands type of brew.
i never thought of the scorching factor, but give a less strong boil a try too. 75-90 min boil with pils just to make sure.
give the Northeast style IPA thread a read.

All but one of the photos I posted above were 1318... The other one was Conan

 

[leesmith]

The automatic temperature compensation isn't meant for taking ph samples at mash temp. All samples should be done at room temperature....
Please refer to this thread if you need a better explanation of ph meter calibration:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=302256
IF you take a measurement in hot wort your not getting an accurate reading...ATC is not meant for that...your getting a false reading.

 

[hopbrad]

nice, my ipas look about your color. OG usually in the 1.064+- then bump it with some cane sugar to about 1.067-1.070. Usually 90% CMC 2-row, 10% CMC white wheat.
My hoppy Pale ales look similar to leesmith, 1.050-1.054 range. usually a combo of 2-row and pils with a touch of wheat.
edit: conan for my IPAs and S-05 for my pale ale
Curious to what your gravity was @leesmith for that beer.
when you figure out your problem lebowski, please update, always nice to learn something new!

 

[Jwin]

Here's my 48/48 white wheat/2row

Picture doesn't do that t justice
Probably should have turned another light on...

View attachment 1468641686233.jpg

 

[leesmith]

nice, my ipas look about your color. OG usually in the 1.064+- then bump it with some cane sugar to about 1.067-1.070. Usually 90% CMC 2-row, 10% CMC white wheat.
My hoppy Pale ales look similar to leesmith, 1.050-1.054 range. usually a combo of 2-row and pils with a touch of wheat.
edit: conan for my IPAs and S-05 for my pale ale
Curious to what your gravity was @leesmith for that beer.
when you figure out your problem lebowski, please update, always nice to learn something new!

Gravity for that beer is:
1.058 og
1.010 fg

 

[Little_Lebowski]

The automatic temperature compensation isn't meant for taking ph samples at mash temp. All samples should be done at room temperature....
Please refer to this thread if you need a better explanation of ph meter calibration:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=302256
IF you take a measurement in hot wort your not getting an accurate reading...ATC is not meant for that...your getting a false reading.

So he says... In many many many many words. If this is the case then what is the point of ATC in the first place?

 

[Little_Lebowski]

Earlier we were talking about vigorous boils and the +/- of them... Check out the video a couple posts down in this thread and tell me if you guys consider it to be vigorous or too vigorous or just right or what. I'll tell you for sure mine is not rolling that rapid at all. Somewhere smack in between simmering bubbles that what you see in the video is how I set mine

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=345229

 

[mlafnitzegger]

I get light color by using 2 row, corn sugar, and flaked oats... Also no more then 60minute boil.

 

[Jwin]

Earlier we were talking about vigorous boils and the +/- of them... Check out the video a couple posts down in this thread and tell me if you guys consider it to be vigorous or too vigorous or just right or what. I'll tell you for sure mine is not rolling that rapid at all. Somewhere smack in between simmering bubbles that what you see in the video is how I set mine

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=345229

I would consider that a very vigorous boil. Dial it back to just a bit of surface motion and see if that helps. I think the correct pH and dialing back the boil will get you what you are looking for. Just be sure to adjust for slightly less boil off. Unless you have the head space, then don't worry bout it

 

[govner1]

Take a look at the Four Peaks HopKnot clone