Summit rhizomes

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sweetcell

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i suspect the hop growers don't have the clout or resources to enforce a recall - they're not a multinational like Monsanto. they might not have the will, either. who knows.

they may well *ask* you to return them, they might send a threatening letter from their lawyers, but i don't see them raiding anyone's garden. the price of summit hops has been declining, so it's not like they've got a lot to protect. i could see them getting a lot more excited about simcoe, citra, amarillo, etc., but not summit.

also, we did nothing wrong. we bought the summit rhizomes in good faith under the assumption that they were legal to buy. methinks at a minimum they'd have to compensate us. i wonder if they'd be willing to swap for a citra rhizome... ;)
 

strumke

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i suspect the hop growers don't have the clout or resources to enforce a recall - they're not a multinational like Monsanto. they might not have the will, either. who knows.

they may well *ask* you to return them, they might send a threatening letter from their lawyers, but i don't see them raiding anyone's garden. the price of summit hops has been declining, so it's not like they've got a lot to protect. i could see them getting a lot more excited about simcoe, citra, amarillo, etc., but not summit.

also, we did nothing wrong. we bought the summit rhizomes in good faith under the assumption that they were legal to buy. methinks at a minimum they'd have to compensate us. i wonder if they'd be willing to swap for a citra rhizome... ;)

You take a citra, I'll take an amarillo, and we can talk next season :mug:
 

pm5k00

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I was thinking we should start referring to our summits as something else to attract less attention. Something similar like peak, zenith, apex, climax, or crest. The last two would make it a "C" hop which I find fitting. Or something stupid like Tangerine Mountain.
 

sweetcell

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we have summit/cascade/climax :ban:

sprout2.jpg
 

sweetcell

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If i would have ordered just a little earlier I'd have some illegal hops. It's a well known fact that illegal hops taste better in beer
thanks for naming my fall batch: TIPA (Triple IPA - Illegal Imperial India Pale Ale :rockin:)

it'll be dry-hopped with a lot of climax, obvs.

edit: correction - it will be wet-hopped with a lot of climax :ban:
 

jester5120

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thanks for naming my fall batch: TIPA (Triple IPA - Illegal Imperial India Pale Ale :rockin:)

it'll be dry-hopped with a lot of climax, obvs.

edit: correction - it will be wet-hopped with a lot of climax :ban:

haha excellent
 

sweetcell

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we have summit/cascade/climax :ban:
quick update: we still have summit/climax. i'm taking cascade out of the mix because compared to my known/confirmed cascade, this one looks quite different. granted both plants are still relatively young so anything is possible, but they have quite a bit of ground to make up before one could be confused for the other.

summit 30april'12-1.jpg


summit 30april'12-v2.jpg


summit 30april'12-v3.jpg
 

strumke

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I have HOPS! Of the 6 plants I have, Summit is the only one that has started to grow flowers (they are all in the same area). Maybe it's because it's a dwarf and reached a certain length? It's still growing, but now there are lots of fuzzy growths and a few are baby hops :mug:
 

sweetcell

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I'm itchin' for an update on the "climax"
i'll post some pix at some point, but the summit/climax is coming along. we had a bit of a disaster: i told SWMBO that Dawn dish soap, mixed with water, is a good insect repellant for plants. she immediately went out and bought some. a few days later i see her spraying some of the plants in the garden and i ask to borrow the sprayer so i can get the summit which was showing signs of buggy-ness. come back the next day, and almost all the leaves on the summit are wilted and dead! turns out SWMBO made a mix of 25% soap and 75% water, instead of like 1-2% soap... so the spray chemically burned the leaves. SWMBO felt horrible about it (she knows how much i cherish the summit) but it was my fault, i didn't tell her how much was needed in the mix. anyhoo, the plant has recoup'ed and is now almost 3 feet tall. still just a single bine, but the leaf-holocaust led to some new climbers that sprouted from the lower leaf nodes. growth hasn't been as vigorous as my cascade, but the summit is chuggin' along (despite the curveballs i've thrown at it).

I wonder if it is possible to clone from one leaf?
i don't believe that you can from just a leaf. i believe you need a piece of bine.

Here's Matilda doing her thing.
you name your hops? awesome :mug: mine are named "mrs" + their variety... so i have mrs. cascade, mrs. summit, mrs. santiam, etc.

i see that your summit is also a single bine. interesting. is this typical for hops started from new rhizomes? my summit is my only rhizome, all other hops were started from crowns.
 

Paulasaurus

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you name your hops? awesome :mug: my are named "mrs" + their variety... so i have mrs. cascade, mrs. summit, ms. santiam, etc.

i see that your summit is also a single bine. interesting. is this typical for hops started from new rhizomes? my summit is my only rhizome, all other hops were started from crowns.

This is the only one i've actually given a name, only to protect her identity :D

Yes, fairly common for rhizomes to only grow from the single bine the first year. You might see some other bines coming up later in the season. Next year all hell will break loose i'm sure.
 

jester5120

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Brent_in_Aurora said:
I wonder if it is possible to clone from one leaf?

You can clone from a bine cutting. If anyone would like to do this I'd give them money and beer and possibly a high five
 

jester5120

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sweetcell said:
i'll be happy to hook you up next year, but after dishsoapgate i'm not taking anything off my baby. she needs everything she's got...

Cool thanks. I hope it pulls through and you get some sort of production
 

ADHA

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Re: Summit™ Hop Rhizomes

Greetings from The American Dwarf Hop Association (ADHA)

As the owner of the Summit™ Hop patent, we at the ADHA frequently monitor Internet discussions that are centered on Summit™ Hops, whether it be questions on availability, brewing practices and of course any action that maybe detrimental to the longevity of our intellectual property.

The ADHA Hop Breeding program, to date, has generated one new cultivar for use in the public hop programs. This single cultivar (Summit™) required many years of plant crosses, germination of more than 200,000 seeds and evaluation of disease and pest resistance on all just to get a single new cultivar. The manpower, greenhouses, lab time and land prep has cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars.

There are two ways to recoup expenses to help defer the cost of providing new varieties to the Brewing Community. The most common method is to keep tight control of rhizomes, grant access to no others, have a single point of entry to the market and charge the highest price the market will absorb. Or you can do as the ADHA has chosen, that is to provide rhizomes to Hop Growers and Processor Agreements to reputable Merchants via a license mechanism. We believe that the Grower/Processor method is in the best interest of the Brewing Community ….Greater availability and the lowest sustainable cost.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f92/summit-rhizomes-162543/index11.html

I can see from your current HomeBrewTalk.com thread that each of you are aware that you have been put in harms way by a Hop Merchant who has no legal access to Summit™ Rhizomes. This Merchant knowingly delivered to you patented plant materials without considering the effects of the legal ramifications of possessing these plant materials.

We have exhausted attempts to reach a mutually acceptable resolution with the Merchant in question but at this time the next steps are in the hands of our Legal Council.

At this time we are asking for your assistance in limiting the damages to our program by returning all Summit™ rhizomes to the ADHA. We are aware that you to have a financial investment for which shipping costs and replacement rhizomes (free trade/no patented plants) should be made available to those who choose to help.

Please feel free to contact me directly
Leslie Roy
Managing Partner ADHA
[email protected]
 

sweetcell

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this heat has just about cooked all my hops. not sure which ones will pull through, but all those started from rhizomes - like my summit - were on the edge of death when i last saw them on sunday.
 

sweetcell

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The ADHA Hop Breeding program, to date, has generated one new cultivar for use in the public hop programs.
hello ADHA,

question: how is this a "public" hop program, when the public does not have access to this hop?

you have every right to seek a return on your investment in this plant, i support you in this, but how is this program "public"? seems like a misnomer.

fyi, when we describe varieties such as summit, citra or simcoe we use terms like "patented", "protected"... or "private".
 

strumke

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Unfortunately (or fortunately, given that legal letter) my summit plant cooked in the 100+ degree DC heat a few weeks ago. I've since replaced it with a horseradish plant that needed more space, but I never though to save the dead plant parts when I repotted the other plant.
 

mooshimanx

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I'm still kind of laughing at the idea that some Farmer's collective is going to come to your house, force their way in and seize your personal hop plants.
 

sweetcell

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breakdown doors, no.

threats of, or actual, lawsuits... maybe. they can make a decent legal argument which could well get them - and any current summit owners - in court. people tend to panic when they see a court summons or subpoena. i suspect they are banking on the fact that a lot of people won't want to go through the trouble and expense of going to court (regardless of the actual merit of their claim).

some people will voluntarily give up the plants because it's the legal thing to do. for the others... i wonder how ADHA will prove that someone is growing their protected hop. i don't think they can get warrants to invade your garden and take samples of every plant (which even then would then have to analyze the DNA = $$$).

not that any of this is a concern of mine anymore... my summit is now officially kindling :(
 

mooshimanx

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breakdown doors, no.

threats of, or actual, lawsuits... maybe. they can make a decent legal argument which could well get them - and any current summit owners - in court. people tend to panic when they see a court summons or subpoena. i suspect they are banking on the fact that a lot of people won't want to go through the trouble and expense of going to court (regardless of the actual merit of their claim).

some people will voluntarily give up the plants because it's the legal thing to do. for the others... i wonder how ADHA will prove that someone is growing their protected hop. i don't think they can get warrants to invade your garden and take samples of every plant (which even then would then have to analyze the DNA = $$$).

not that any of this is a concern of mine anymore... my summit is now officially kindling :(

Sure, except a lot of the plants are dead by now and in a mulch pile somewhere. What are they going to do when you tell them that? Root around in the soil to look for the dead plant matter?
 

sweetcell

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Sure, except a lot of the plants are dead by now and in a mulch pile somewhere. What are they going to do when you tell them that? Root around in the soil to look for the dead plant matter?
herein lies the likely downfall of their case: how are they going to prove that you're growing, or that you've ever grown, their patented plant materials? they can bark but i'm not sure that they will have any bite. as i pointed out above, sometimes bark is enough.

i wish them the best. they're just looking to protect their investment.
 

mooshimanx

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herein lies the likely downfall of their case: how are they going to prove that you're growing, or that you've ever grown, their patented plant materials? they can bark but i'm not sure that they will have any bite. as i pointed out above, sometimes bark is enough.

i wish them the best. they're just looking to protect their investment.

My guess is that it doesn't happen very often given the nature of these patented hop varieties and when it does it ends up in another commercial environment - at that point its easy for the patent holder to find out what's up since commercial farmers have to sell the hops to do anything with them.

I would feel more bad for them if it weren't for the fact that some people I know who work in small breweries are starting to mutter that the hop industry has cut back on hop harvests for the upcoming year to raise prices and a 2008-like hop shortage is coming since almost everything is already contracted out. I don't know how true that is though, but I've heard the complaint a few times.
 

ArrowheadHops

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Unfortunately I’m not a large grower with patented varieties and I'm not sure about a "artificial shortage” but look to smaller growers for a better availability since most wont have huge contracts to fill and maybe a nice personal touch. I've got a nice crop of Centennials (the real thing) and a few others coming nicely. Follow us on FB for details on our harvest.
 

sweetcell

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I would feel more bad for them if it weren't for the fact that some people I know who work in small breweries are starting to mutter that the hop industry has cut back on hop harvests for the upcoming year to raise prices and a 2008-like hop shortage is coming since almost everything is already contracted out. I don't know how true that is though, but I've heard the complaint a few times.
i doubt this is the case. there is no hop-growing cartel. farms have no way of ensuring that if one farm or group of farms cut back on production, another farm/group won't swoop in and fill the demand.

given my understanding of the current hop market, a 10% cut in production would not yield a 15% increase in price (numbers arbitrary here, but you get the point: a production decrease is not offset by a price increase). overall revenues are increased by increasing production.

farms have huge fixed costs: land, machines, insurance, etc. again, this isn't conducive to taking a chance on lowering production on a crop that has a healthy demand.

i don't doubt that your brewer friends feel that they're being squeezed by the big farms, but i doubt this is a conspiracy to manipulate supply and demand. with demand naturally high and the big brewers signing long-term contracts, prices are going to rise without needing to limit production.
 

lurker18

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The limiting production after a crop is in the ground has been tossed around years ago up in Canada by grain farmers to go on a "strike". If I refuse to sell the grain, the stocks will become limited, and the prices go up. True that would work, but like hops, the crop is in the ground and needs to be taken off. Even if the hop farmer wants to hold back supply, they still need to go through the effort to get this years crop off the fields, so they are still doing the same work ($$$). Now if they all agreed to not release a percentage of their crops, the price goes up, UNTIL the one greedy guy jumps on the rising prices, dumps his production on the market, and sends the prices back down. No matter what anyone thinks, these farmers can't hold on to an ideal, when the bank is knocking on the door for it's payments. They need to make the money in the good times, to cover the losses in the tight years. Natural decline in production is unavoidable, but to limit sales of a product that has a rather short shelf life and can not be held back for years to sell when the prices are more to their liking, will not happen.
 

pm5k00

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Well I had to dig up my rhizomes mid season to move and my summits did not make it :( so if anyone trims back their summits and is willing to send me some rhizomes I would be most grateful, and compensation is negotiable of course.
 

pm5k00

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Well I had to dig up my rhizomes mid season to move and my summits did not make it :( so if anyone trims back their summits and is willing to send me some rhizomes I would be most grateful, and compensation is negotiable of course.

I am still interested if anyone has summit growing and thriving, I will pay for shipping if anyone can help. Thanks.
 

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I'd be interested in Summit F1 seeds if anyone has any, either due to having some of the plants themselves or "having found some in their whole leaf hops".

I don't have many seeds to trade but next year I should have plenty. Despite the quotation marks I actually did get a lot of seeds that way and I don't really care for the "real thing" myself. Breeding is more fun.
 
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