Substitute yeast for a "Mexican Lager" (Negra Modelo)

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Have you had German lagers in Germany?

I have, actually, and it's kind of what convinced me "OK, that's it, I guess I just hate lagers". These were in Switzerland actually, but were German beers from not too far over the border.

I recall liking Urquell a lot. I don't recall butteriness or diacetyl. Interesting. I more remember liking the hoppiness and the hops, and the relative lack of the mystery flavor which I dislike.

I haven't had them in a while, but I recall liking Becks and Heineken. And tend to dislike Saisons, they are ales of course but share something with the lagers I dislike.

I guess after all that I'm just hoping for a lager yeast or two that work for me. The yeasts least likely to give the flavors I wish I could better describe.

 

[Bramling Cross]

C-150 and S-189.

That's how you get the roast that has a hint of sweetness and the roundness before the yeast clamps down.

 

[Ramjet]

Dos Equis Amber is also a vienna lager I think Negra Modelo leans more towards a Munich Dunkel

 

[beersk]

I have, actually, and it's kind of what convinced me "OK, that's it, I guess I just hate lagers". These were in Switzerland actually, but were German beers from not too far over the border.

I recall liking Urquell a lot. I don't recall butteriness or diacetyl. Interesting. I more remember liking the hoppiness and the hops, and the relative lack of the mystery flavor which I dislike.

I haven't had them in a while, but I recall liking Becks and Heineken. And tend to dislike Saisons, they are ales of course but share something with the lagers I dislike.

I guess after all that I'm just hoping for a lager yeast or two that work for me. The yeasts least likely to give the flavors I wish I could better describe.

If you don't like lagers, why not just brew with a really clean ale yeast? Or you could use 34/70 at ale temps, or try the Lallemand Novalager yeast which ferments warm, or use Nottingham at 58-60F, or for liquid yeast, brew with Kolsch yeast like Wyeast 1007, 1010, 2565. You can get really clean beer without "that lager flavor". Honestly, I've brewed some fantastic beers with Wy1007 German ale.
I can understand that you don't like those German and Swiss beers. They all have that German lager flavor, the "It" flavor that low oxygen brewers are chasing. Totally get not liking that.
Do you like American brewed lagers? None that I've had have that flavor. None.

 

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It's not that I hate all lagers, just a bunch of them. I did some examples but I recall liking Urquell, basically like the Mexican beers, etc. (Enough to try and emulate Negra Modelo at home). I don't like Helles apparently. I have a spreadsheet, actually, but those were the ones that stood out. Haven't tried any American lagers in a while, save Coors light that my F-I-L loves, and I don't recall any bad tastes specifically (just a general lack of taste).

I'll be drinking my recent brew with the Bohemian soon, maybe today, will see how it goes. I need to make it to a store for a DIY 6-pack for a bottle of NM and can grab some others there too to compare.

 

[beersk]

It's not that I hate all lagers, just a bunch of them. I did some examples but I recall liking Urquell, basically like the Mexican beers, etc. (Enough to try and emulate Negra Modelo at home). I don't like Helles apparently. I have a spreadsheet, actually, but those were the ones that stood out. Haven't tried any American lagers in a while, save Coors light that my F-I-L loves, and I don't recall any bad tastes specifically (just a general lack of taste).

I'll be drinking my recent brew with the Bohemian soon, maybe today, will see how it goes. I need to make it to a store for a DIY 6-pack for a bottle of NM and can grab some others there too to compare.

Well, I was talking more about American craft brewed lagers rather than BMC beers. So for you, look for anything brewed by Summit for local. I love Summit's beers. Or you could try Firestone Walker Pivo Pils. If you don't like those, then you probably just don't like lagers in general. And there's not a thing wrong with that. You can still brew those styles but with a clean ale yeast.

 

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American / Locally, Grain Belt Nordeast is fantastic, has none of my mystery flavor. I haven't had their normal beer in a long time though. Sam Adams Boston Lager works for me.

New Glarus 2 Women I didn't like, I don't recall Spotted Cow specifically. Pryes Pragmatic is awful for me, billed as a Czech / Bohemian pilsner. Earth Rider Precious Material (a Helles) was awful for me. Surly Hell also not a good one.

Generically speaking, Oktoberfests and Marzens are iffy for me, they tend to have the "thing" going on more often than not. There's a chance it's a grain driven parameter I don't like and I confuse it with the yeast's contribution.

I'll have to do a DIY 6-pck or two soon.

 

[beersk]

American / Locally, Grain Belt Nordeast is fantastic, has none of my mystery flavor. I haven't had their normal beer in a long time though. Sam Adams Boston Lager works for me.

New Glarus 2 Women I didn't like, I don't recall Spotted Cow specifically. Pryes Pragmatic is awful for me, billed as a Czech / Bohemian pilsner. Earth Rider Precious Material (a Helles) was awful for me. Surly Hell also not a good one.

Generically speaking, Oktoberfests and Marzens are iffy for me, they tend to have the "thing" going on more often than not. There's a chance it's a grain driven parameter I don't like and I confuse it with the yeast's contribution.

I'll have to do a DIY 6-pck or two soon.

Agree on Surly Hell. It's an awful beer. I'm not even sure it's a lager. But that beer sums up American made pilsners for me. Over hopped and under malted.

It really sounds to me like your palate just doesn't want lagers especially if you don't like New Glarus. They make some of the best lagers I've had from any American brewery.

Dude, don't sweat it. Seek out some Czech pils, as that seems to be what you're favoring. Try the Summit Twins Pils. And in brewing your own, just use a nice clean ale yeast. Totally recommend Wyeast 1007. Brewing is fun and great but when you make something you don't like, it's a total bummer and it's not worth risking 5 gallons because you took a gamble on yeast you most likely won't care for.

 

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I wanted to follow up on this. A month or so after brewing, first sips, I didn't like the yeast choice at all (Bohemian). It had that flavor that I didn't like (tried describing it above, not all lagers have it but when I taste it it's only in lagers). I don't think it fit the style at all.

Now that it's been maybe another month, that flavor has greatly diminished, and the beer is pretty enjoyable. So I will of course finish it, but wont' be using it again. I bet it's great in other beers and for the taste buds of other people, but it does not at all go well in a Mexican inspired beer, not to my palate anyhow.

Next time I brew this recipe it'll be with a "Mexican" yeast, and if that yeast isn't available I'll make a different beer altogether.

 

[dmtaylor]

I wonder whether you might have been happier with the 2278 yeast.

 

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Perhaps. If I'm forced to substitute again I'd try it next. Might try it in a "cold IPA" inspired recipe for fun as well.

 

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Following up on this thread - I made my recipe again but with the Omega OYL-113 Mexican Lager yeast and even just 4 weeks from brewing it's simply wonderful. I still can't say what is a good substitute, and may try some options someday, but am also inclined to think that if I can't find the "right" yeast I'll just brew something else.

Obviously different yeasts give different results, but - wow. It's the right one if you're aiming for a Mexican lager, for certain.

 

[beersk]

OYL-113 is such a great yeast. I wish there was a dry version available.