Stupid CO2 Leaks - How to Know?

[ScrapRoomBrewer]

I just got home to my 2nd empty 5# CO2 tanks in as many weeks. Fortunately I also have a 20# tank for force carbing to use as a backup. Bottled CO2 here in the middle of the Pacific is not cheap, so I am annoyed.

I found the cause of the first leak when my first tank ran empty last Wednesday (PRV on a newly connected keg) and added some keg lube, reseated it, sprayed with dish soap and water - leak solved. After 2 days of testing by turning off the tank, all was good, opened tank, and moved on. Today, same thing. Empty tank. Turns out, somebody (likely me) bumped the PRV on the keg either Tues or Wed, and that re-opened the leak.

I'm sure I can repair this leak. That's not the question. What I would like to know is if there's any way to know that I have a leak before the whole tank is gone? I am comfortable with my fittings at the regulator, manifolds, and QDs. They have been tested many times. The variable is always the kegs. Is there such a thing as an in-line flow meter for the CO2, so I can see how much gas is currently moving through the lines? Or at least the volume of gas that has gone through the lines over a short period of time? Or do I need to slather every keg with soapy water or StarSan every time I hook one up, plus occasionally afterward?

I am aware that I could also weigh the tank at intervals. This seems a bit impractical given my current setup, but if it's the only way, I'd certainly consider it.

Have any of you had similar problems and come up with a solution?

 

[jeff62217]

I had a leak that was driving me nuts because I couldn't find the source of it. Sprayed star san all over and no signs of leaking gas. Finally I ugraded my regulator from the cheapo single gauge that came with my haier kegerator to a taprite dual with a tank gauge. Problem solved, a 5# tank used to last a month to month an a half if I was lucky, now it's 5-6 months, even fast carbing kegs at 30 psi.

Kind of hard to test if your regulator is leaking internally or otherwise but it's something to consider.

 

[ScrapRoomBrewer]

Thx for the quick reply. I hear ya, and that's how I found the leak. I'm more asking about if there's a way to preemptively know there's a leak before my CO2 tank is empty.

As I said, tank connection, regulator, manifolds and QDs have been checked early and often. I just want to know if there is a way to know the keg is leaking slowly before I find an empty CO2 tank.

EDIT: Just saw the update there. I had a cheapo regulator, no issues (other than kegs) and oddly just upgraded to a TapRite dual regulator and love it! No issues (other than kegs). As for the leaky regulator, I won't say it's impossible. But since I found a leak at the PRV of a keg, I'll say it's unlikely at this point. Question still stands. Also, to add more info, I do use Keg Lube.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

That's the tough part about co2. It's stored as a liquid, so as soon as the tank gauge starts to move... start making preparations to have it refilled. When you have a leak, you won't really know until that needle moves, and by then you've wasted quite a bit of gas. It sucks, and I can almost guarantee every kegger has been there.

Every time you swap something out or move something, give it a spray afterwards. Use oetiker clamps on all lines instead of worm clamps, and make sure to use those little plastic gaskets in swivel nuts where required. I've had way too many leaks in the past from stripped out worm clamps.

Good luck!

 

[SGTSparty]

Agreed w/ k1ngli1ves Hard to track a leak. They make flow meters for the beer (think Kegbot) but IDK if they are readily available for the CO2 and if you can find them it seems like it would be cheaper to replace the keg lids, and by default the PRV. It sounds like you've checked everything else multiple times so if that's your failure point might be worth just replacing the lid. F/U question, what kind of kegs are you using? My PRV's are protected by a little rubber guide, the ring on the PRV sits into the grooves on the guide so its rather hard to bump/open them on accident.

 

[mongoose33]

That's the tough part about co2. It's stored as a liquid, so as soon as the tank gauge starts to move... start making preparations to have it refilled. When you have a leak, you won't really know until that needle moves, and by then you've wasted quite a bit of gas. It sucks, and I can almost guarantee every kegger has been there.

Every time you swap something out or move something, give it a spray afterwards. Use oetiker clamps on all lines instead of worm clamps, and make sure to use those little plastic gaskets in swivel nuts where required. I've had way too many leaks in the past from stripped out worm clamps.

Good luck!

I recently bought a couple packets of Oetiker clamps and the clamp tool. They're much nicer than the worm clamps, IMO. Smaller form factor, no "tongue" hanging off the clamp to get in the way or even cut my hand if I'm not careful.

I've taken to using MFL connections where I can--I like that positive seal on the barb piece with that little plastic washer. I can also change the size of the barb.

 

[SGTSparty]

I recently bought a couple packets of Oetiker clamps and the clamp tool. They're much nicer than the worm clamps, IMO. Smaller form factor, no "tongue" hanging off the clamp to get in the way or even cut my hand if I'm not careful.

I've taken to using MFL connections where I can--I like that positive seal on the barb piece with that little plastic washer. I can also change the size of the barb.

I actually really like these:

Got them on accident from my LHBS on an online order/in store pickup order. I've had leaks w/ Oetiker clamps both on my IC and my Kegging set up. These take up a bit more room but I love the ability to give them a quick turn test/tighten.

 

[mongoose33]

I actually really like these:

Got them on accident from my LHBS on an online order/in store pickup order. I've had leaks w/ Oetiker clamps both on my IC and my Kegging set up. These take up a bit more room but I love the ability to give them a quick turn test/tighten.

I've got a few of those--one I have is rusting.

I was using it to disconnect a gas line from a QD so I could add CO2 to the fermenter while racking. It's getting difficult to use, and I'll convert to an Oediker clamp here at some point when I get an extra QD.

 

[maltmeister]

This may not be exactly the info you're looking for but this is what I've done to leak test (after squandering several tanks of CO2 into my basement!). I usually don't have the time/patience to spray everything down after every change I make to the hookups.

I basically get my keg system set up. Everything hooked up like I'm about to carb or serve except I' dont hook the gas line to the keg. I pressurize the system to whatever level I'm planning on doing then simply turn off the main valve to the CO2 tank (leaving the regulator untouched). I come back a day or two later and then check the pressure gauge. If it's still pressurized you're golden, no leak. If it has dropped (or more likely, has zero pressure), then you know there's a leak.

This method doesn't tell you where the leak is, but if it holds pressure for a few days, you can be pretty certain that there isn't a leak. The only area "untested" with this method is the keg seals and gas connection. I just spray those to check. If you hook up the keg in this scenario, the pressure may dissipate but it could just be CO2 dissolving into the beer and not a true leak.

 

[ScrapRoomBrewer]

Thanks again for all the great info on clamps. I'll be sure to check out the Oetiker clamps for future use. But I found the leak, I believe I fixed it, but the point is: How can I know that I truly have no leaks in my system other than waiting for my CO2 tank to be empty? Is there a way to measure CO2 usage other than finding an empty tank?

Thx SGTSparty for the comment about the CO2 flow meter. I agree it would likely be pricey. I was just wondering if there were any other options the folks here have employed besides a CO2 flow meter.

 

[ScrapRoomBrewer]

This may not be exactly the info you're looking for but this is what I've done to leak test (after squandering several tanks of CO2 into my basement!). I usually don't have the time/patience to spray everything down after every change I make to the hookups.

I basically get my keg system set up. Everything hooked up like I'm about to carb or serve except I' dont hook the gas line to the keg. I pressurize the system to whatever level I'm planning on doing then simply turn off the main valve to the CO2 tank (leaving the regulator untouched). I come back a day or two later and then check the pressure gauge. If it's still pressurized you're golden, no leak. If it has dropped (or more likely, has zero pressure), then you know there's a leak.

This method doesn't tell you where the leak is, but if it holds pressure for a few days, you can be pretty certain that there isn't a leak. The only area "untested" with this method is the keg seals and gas connection. I just spray those to check. If you hook up the keg in this scenario, the pressure may dissipate but it could just be CO2 dissolving into the beer and not a true leak.

Thank you for addressing the question!

This has been my MO to date. It works 90% of the time. But as you said, a drop in pressure could be CO2 dissolving into the beer. It could be someone pulled a pint or two when I wasn't there. And it requires at least one day or more to know if you have a small leak. Are there any other methods?

 

[SGTSparty]

More to the original point of the OP: Does anyone know if a full 10# tank of CO2 is ACTUALLY 10 pounds heavier? If so couldn't you just put your CO2 set up on a scale? I feel like this is way too low tech to work but just in case no one has thought to ask it I'll be that guy.

 

[day_trippr]

It doesn't matter how much the cylinder and gas weigh, or if it's half empty.
Just set it up on the scale, pull up a chair, sit back and wait.
And note you can't pour beer while you're sitting there, so fill a growler or something first...

Cheers! ("Fun Times" )

 

[ScrapRoomBrewer]

It doesn't matter how much the cylinder and gas weigh, or if it's half empty.

Just set it up on the scale, pull up a chair, sit back and wait.

And note you can't pour beer while you're sitting there, so fill a growler or something first...



Cheers! ("Fun Times" )

Agreed about the quantity, doubly agreed about the growler.... I suppose weight does seem to be the best metric to use based both on cost and reliability.

Thank you all for your input. I am off to buy a scale.

 

[Justintoxicated]

I guess you could do weight, or you could just shut off the gas after you pressurized the system. If it dops to 0 overnight, you have a leak.

We have all been there, I went though about 6 tanks until I found my leak, one was a hose clamp that wouldn't seal (replaced it with oetiker clamp). But that wasn't the only problem.. I had another very very small leak coming from a valve handle.... that one was very hard to find. Oetiker clamps are the way to go as they create a constant seal unlike your typical hose clamp that leaves a bit of a gap under the tightening mechanism where the metal overlaps. You could also buy fancy constant tension hose clamps, but for small clamps I like the oetikers myself.

 

[55x11]

I just got home to my 2nd empty 5# CO2 tanks in as many weeks. Fortunately I also have a 20# tank for force carbing to use as a backup. Bottled CO2 here in the middle of the Pacific is not cheap, so I am annoyed.

I found the cause of the first leak when my first tank ran empty last Wednesday (PRV on a newly connected keg) and added some keg lube, reseated it, sprayed with dish soap and water - leak solved. After 2 days of testing by turning off the tank, all was good, opened tank, and moved on. Today, same thing. Empty tank. Turns out, somebody (likely me) bumped the PRV on the keg either Tues or Wed, and that re-opened the leak.

I'm sure I can repair this leak. That's not the question. What I would like to know is if there's any way to know that I have a leak before the whole tank is gone? I am comfortable with my fittings at the regulator, manifolds, and QDs. They have been tested many times. The variable is always the kegs. Is there such a thing as an in-line flow meter for the CO2, so I can see how much gas is currently moving through the lines? Or at least the volume of gas that has gone through the lines over a short period of time? Or do I need to slather every keg with soapy water or StarSan every time I hook one up, plus occasionally afterward?

I am aware that I could also weigh the tank at intervals. This seems a bit impractical given my current setup, but if it's the only way, I'd certainly consider it.

Have any of you had similar problems and come up with a solution?

Once the kegs are carbed, I periodically shut off CO2 from the tank (just past regulator). The pressure on secondary regulators should remain constant - if there is a leak anywhere downstream from the primary regulator, the pressure will drop. Usually 24-48 hours is a good test.

Note that the pressure will also drop if:
1. The kegs are still being carbonated (and CO2 goes into the solution)
2. If you are drawing sufficient amount of carbed beer, which has to be replaced by CO2.

You can also close or disconnect individual kegs if you want to narrow your "leak" down to specific keg.