Max nailed it. There's no hate here. Maybe some "well of course that's what you got," but no hate at all.
Stuck Dry Irish Stout - Options?
- Thread starter Woodbrews
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Woodbrews
Well-Known Member
Can you guys be a little more specific about what's wrong with the recipe? Regardless of the target style, what exactly is wrong with the recipe?
10 lbs. pale malt (UK)
2 lbs. chocolate malt
2 lbs. roasted barley
1 lb. white wheat malt
2 oz. Goldings at 60 min.
2 oz. Goldings at 15 min.
Yeast was Wyeast Irish Ale 1084
For the record, I found this recipe online and did not design it myself. But if I'm going to learn something from this brew, I need more specificity about the problems you see with the recipe.
Thanks, OP.
10 lbs. pale malt (UK)
2 lbs. chocolate malt
2 lbs. roasted barley
1 lb. white wheat malt
2 oz. Goldings at 60 min.
2 oz. Goldings at 15 min.
Yeast was Wyeast Irish Ale 1084
For the record, I found this recipe online and did not design it myself. But if I'm going to learn something from this brew, I need more specificity about the problems you see with the recipe.
Thanks, OP.
Sure, but first off, what were you hoping this would turn out like? Like a Guiness, or something else?
The only real issue for most would be the huge % of roasted grains, but all the other potential issues depend on what you wanted out of it.
The only real issue for most would be the huge % of roasted grains, but all the other potential issues depend on what you wanted out of it.
26% Roasted grains is a lot. That would be my primary concern with the recipe. A very harsh and bitter tasting beer is likely. It's hard to know what recipes are good and which are not when starting out. After a while you'll know what to look for in various styles you enjoy making or drinking.
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Have you ever tried this recipe - or one like similar in grain bill percentages? how do you know it would likely be harsh and bitter - might be super sweet and heavy on the mouth.
If it doesn't attenuate it'll be sweet! OP's got to get that one figured out.
This is a discussion forum. We all give advice based on our experiences. Opinions are going to be all over the place, so the best we can hope for is a lot of replies, and the consensus will rise to the top. That's all I see going on here.
If this thread was only open to people who have brewed that exact beer, it would be pretty lonely in here
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Firstly, it's NOT an Irish stout. Not a DRY Irish stout anyway. It's OG is way too high. It might be a really nice stout in the end, but I doubt it would fall into the dry category unless some unusual measures were taken (Amylase Enzyme added, or maybe a champagne yeast).
IMO you are using too much roasted malt. My experience, and probably the experience of many others, is that you gain a lot of harsh roast bitterness when you add too much dark roasted malts. No experimentation is necessary to find this out; it's been documented many times before. Unless you change something else to counteract this, you are not going to achieve a different result.
Also, 4 lbs of roast malt, out of a TOTAL of 15 lbs of malt, is only 26%, not 36%. That's still a bit high but not incredibly high. I think most stout recipes prefer to be in the 10-20% range, but that really depends on the particular roast malt. Some are more roasty than others.
I'm going to have to agree with Gavin's advice to NOT aerate the wort again. There is no guarantee that the yeast will pick up all of the oxygen now. They've budded out and are likely not going to be able to use all of the oxygen with the food left to consume.
The OG was very high for a dry stout. When you consider the potential attentuation of the yeast, at the percentage given you will end up with a higher FG. Again, I'd recommend a different yeast. One that has a higher attenuation rate, and higher alcohol tolerance. Do a small starter to get them used to the alcohol level, and pitch that.
Or try Amylase Enzyme. They are quite good at chopping up the longer sugars, making it available for the yeast to eat. Not a lot of people use it, so you would be performing a bit of experimentation here. But you might even end up with a high alcohol version of a Dry Stout. An Imperial Dry Stout, if you will.
IMO you are using too much roasted malt. My experience, and probably the experience of many others, is that you gain a lot of harsh roast bitterness when you add too much dark roasted malts. No experimentation is necessary to find this out; it's been documented many times before. Unless you change something else to counteract this, you are not going to achieve a different result.
Also, 4 lbs of roast malt, out of a TOTAL of 15 lbs of malt, is only 26%, not 36%. That's still a bit high but not incredibly high. I think most stout recipes prefer to be in the 10-20% range, but that really depends on the particular roast malt. Some are more roasty than others.
I'm going to have to agree with Gavin's advice to NOT aerate the wort again. There is no guarantee that the yeast will pick up all of the oxygen now. They've budded out and are likely not going to be able to use all of the oxygen with the food left to consume.
The OG was very high for a dry stout. When you consider the potential attentuation of the yeast, at the percentage given you will end up with a higher FG. Again, I'd recommend a different yeast. One that has a higher attenuation rate, and higher alcohol tolerance. Do a small starter to get them used to the alcohol level, and pitch that.
Or try Amylase Enzyme. They are quite good at chopping up the longer sugars, making it available for the yeast to eat. Not a lot of people use it, so you would be performing a bit of experimentation here. But you might even end up with a high alcohol version of a Dry Stout. An Imperial Dry Stout, if you will.
As was already said, the OG is too high, and the dark grain bill is really high (though, that can simply be personal preference, too) for a dry Irish stout. With all of the dark roasted grains, you're already going to have a tough time getting the yeast to chew through it to get to a low enough FG to make it dry. In addition, the high mash temperature will further lead to a fuller body and less dryness. For most stouts, a high mash temp is preferred. However, if you want a dry stout, you want the mash temp lower so that you will have more beta amylase activity, which will dry it out.
Woodbrews
Well-Known Member
I added 2 tsp. of amylase enzyme last night (5 gal. batch) and saw activity this morning. I'll test the gravity tonight and again each night until it is stable. I'll also give it a taste and report my findings. Thanks for the info about the recipe -- this hobby is all about learning experiences!
The OG is fairly standard for what used to be a regular stout quite a while ago. If you were rebreweing I'd drop the roast malts to 2lb total and up the pale malt (consider adding some Brown malt). Mash a few degrees lower. Otherwise it all looks ok.
You might have got into something funny going on with pH with that amount of roast malts. You might have had some bad luck with the yeast packing early. Who knows. It's kind of hard to point at any single cause, so you might as well drink it and brew another one to see what happens.
Woodbrews
Well-Known Member
OP here. I added 2 tsp. of amylase enzyme and saw significant krausen within the first 24 hours. Activity continued for the better part of 5 days. I tested the FG again tonight and it is stable at 1.020, which is the target for the recipe. The beer tastes surprisingly good, strong chocolate flavor initially, but has a bitter, astringent finish that reminds me of a heavily tannic wine. I will go ahead and keg it and carbonate it, and I think it will turn out fine, if not to everyone's liking.
Nice Job @Woodbrews
Thanks for the update. Great to know this works so well.
Thanks for the update. Great to know this works so well.
chickypad
lupulin shift victim
Good to hear. It may improve some with age. I've overdone it before on the dark roasted malt, though not quite to your degree, and that astringent bite mellowed quite a bit over time though it did take a number of months.
I think you learned a few important things about attenuation and ingredients. The learning is so important. Sounds like a resounding success. Thanks for closing the loop on this.
I imagine it will smooth out quite a bit with some cold time. Stouts always do.
Hope it turns out OK.
Hope it turns out OK.
Road Apples, huh? Strangest thing I've heard on HBT all month.
tennesseean_87
Well-Known Member
Were you replying to my post? It looks like it's been deleted. It may have been a bit over the top.
The useful stuff I said:
1. 3711 and Belle Saison are monster attenuators. I'm curious to know what would have happened if a starter of one of those had been pitched.
2. If you've got too much roasted malt in there, try blending it with another beer. You can still do this--half a glass of this and half a glass of pale ale should get you close to the roast percentage of your average stout.
