Stuck at 1.020

[Redmanll34]

So I have brewed this beer 2x times now and can not get it past 1.020 looking for some advice.


v1 Citra

og 1.067
fg 1.020
ibu 76.4

5.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
5.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -

6 lbs 10.8 oz Pearl Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 3 47.8 %
5 lbs 11.5 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 41.0 %
1 lbs 8.9 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 5 11.1 %

1.20 oz Apollo [17.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 6 66.3 IBUs
0.30 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 7 -
1.00 oz Falconer's Flight 7C's Blend [9.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 10.2 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

1.0 pkg Conan (gigayeast gy054)

2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs


So this was the first time I brewed this I mashed 152 for 60min and slightly overpitched my yeast on this one. it ended exactly at 1.020.

Citra V2
og 1.068
fg 1.020
ibu 76.5

6.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
5.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
4.00 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -

6 lbs 11.2 oz Pearl Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (3.0 SRM) Grain 4 49.5 %
5 lbs 11.4 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 42.2 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 6 7.4 %
2.0 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 7 0.9 %

1.20 oz Apollo [17.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 8 65.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Falconer's Flight 7C's Blend [9.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 10.1 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs

1.0 pkg Conan (GigaYeast #GY054) Yeast 11 -

2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs

For V2 I mashed in at 149 for 90min (trying to help attenuate further) and pitched the correct amount of gy054. I also aerated w/ pure 02 right before pitching.

Both times the beers were fermented at 68 degrees and ramped up to 72 degrees.

From Gigyeast : Attenuation Medium Gravity 78% – 82% unless my math is off I should at least be getting down to 1.015

Both beers used the same yeast, I built up my original package of yeast then saved and froze some of it. I used starters for both.

I'm not sure what else I can do to get this beer lower

 

[robopp]

I've been having attenuation issues with Conan too, but not that bad. Granted I was fermenting at 63F and I've read that you need around 66F to get decent attenuation. Obviously, that not you're problem. I've heard that later generations attenuate better so maybe try that?

Conan is a finicky yeast but when it works, it makes a delicious beer. I wonder how Kimmich deals with the attenuation?

 

[GuldTuborg]

How are you measuring FG? More importantly, how do they taste?

 

[andrewmaixner]

Does it taste too sweet, or taste good?
--Try to ramp up fermentation temperature slowly after reproduction phase is complete?
--Try a lower mash temp, or a two-step mash (146, 154), and see if that gets you the lighter body you want?

 

[Redmanll34]

How are you measuring FG? More importantly, how do they taste?

Measuring FG with a Hydrometer. I like the beer, I do think it is a tad sweet, hence why I cut some of the crystal out and added some acid malt to dry it out a tad. V2 is still in the carboy so I'll know how it taste in a week or two after it has been dry hopped.

I have ramped up on temp after the fermentation is close to being done, also gave a swirl or two everyday.

I have another bottle of conan being shipped in so I am going to see if that makes a difference, maybe I got a strained/stressed lot of it. Thank you for all your suggestions I will try them out and see what happens.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Nothing in the recipe points to a particularly sweet beer, especially in V2.

I suppose I'd look next towards the mash and fermentation processes and the next likely causes. It could be a poorly calibrated thermometer, variances in mash pH or temps, or something about the fermentation temps. Raising the temps in the carboy as fermentation begins to slow, as noted above, works with a good number of yeasts.

 

[troglodytes]

You're not alone, I was just posting last week about how my latest batch did the same exact thing, and my batch is almost identical to your version 1 except for the hops I used & some corn sugar added to dry it out (no luck with that). I swore that my yeast stalled and was going to add more. But then I did an FFT and found the fermentability was only to get down to 1.020.

It wasn't until I posted my issue that people started coming out and saying that Conan doesn't attenuate as much as I have seen it advertised in the past. But its attenuation increases with subsequent generations so maybe we can hope for better results the longer we use this strain. My version 2 will hold the gran bill the same and lower mash temp to 149. I'll also do an FFT right off the bat so I'll know if any issues are with fermentation or with the mash, and I can bottle earlier without mucking about with swirling, repitching, etc.

One question for you, have you ever brewed this recipe and fermented with WLP001 or similar to see what attenuation differences there are? The fact that this happened to both of us with such a similar brew makes me suspect the yeast a little.

 

[troglodytes]

* Posted Double.

 

[mbbransc]

I was going to suggest calibrating your thermometer first, but it's already been suggested.

I average 79% attenuation with Conan (Yeast Bay) through 13 brews. 1st gen averages 80%, although most suggest better rates on subsequent generations.

I generally begin fermentation at 65* and increase the temp 1* each day up to 72* and leave it there for 3-days. Then cold crash, add gelatin, and rack into a keg by day 14.

Are you chilling your wort down to fermentation temps prior to pitching? Pitching too warm and then cooling it down can put some yeasts to sleep.

 

[mbbransc]

*duplicate post

 

[Redmanll34]

Glad to know I'm not alone with this, I have not tried this recipe with any other yeast yet, that maybe my next step.

My readings indicate the opposite about attenuation and how many generations it is.

I have another batch of conan coming in so that will be my next test, if that still finishes around 1.020 I will try another yeast strain.

You're not alone, I was just posting last week about how my latest batch did the same exact thing, and my batch is almost identical to your version 1 except for the hops I used & some corn sugar added to dry it out (no luck with that). I swore that my yeast stalled and was going to add more. But then I did an FFT and found the fermentability was only to get down to 1.020.

It wasn't until I posted my issue that people started coming out and saying that Conan doesn't attenuate as much as I have seen it advertised in the past. But its attenuation increases with subsequent generations so maybe we can hope for better results the longer we use this strain. My version 2 will hold the gran bill the same and lower mash temp to 149. I'll also do an FFT right off the bat so I'll know if any issues are with fermentation or with the mash, and I can bottle earlier without mucking about wit swirling, repitching, etc.

One question for you, have you ever brewed this recipe and fermented with WLP001 or similar to see what attenuation differences there are? The fact that this happened to both of use with such a similar brew makes me suspect the yeast a little.

 

[Redmanll34]

My temps should be pretty spot on I check with an analog (built into tun) a handheld digital, and the temp probes on my electric Kal system. I don't think temp is the issue here.

With V2 I waited for krausen to start falling then ramped temps from 68 to 74 in a 5 day period, while swirling once to twice a day.

Mash PH is questionable as I have no way of checking it, I do put all of my recipes through ez water and adjust mash water with the chemicals listed above to achieve the correct mash PH. But again there is no way for me to actual check it.

Just want to say thanks for the suggestions, I am going to try as many as I can, to correct this issue. I just am not happy with a 69% attenuation with this beer.

Nothing in the recipe points to a particularly sweet beer, especially in V2.

I suppose I'd look next towards the mash and fermentation processes and the next likely causes. It could be a poorly calibrated thermometer, variances in mash pH or temps, or something about the fermentation temps. Raising the temps in the carboy as fermentation begins to slow, as noted above, works with a good number of yeasts.

 

[Redmanll34]

I was going to suggest calibrating your thermometer first, but it's already been suggested.

I average 79% attenuation with Conan (Yeast Bay) through 13 brews. 1st gen averages 80%, although most suggest better rates on subsequent generations.

I generally begin fermentation at 65* and increase the temp 1* each day up to 72* and leave it there for 3-days. Then cold crash, add gelatin, and rack into a keg by day 14.

Are you chilling your wort down to fermentation temps prior to pitching? Pitching too warm and then cooling it down can put some yeasts to sleep.

Yes wort is being chilled to pitching temp 68 degrees prior to adding yeast.

 

[GuldTuborg]

It sounds like you're doing everything right, and making good changes. Good luck with V2. Post back about how it works. If it's still stopping too high, we can start exploring other, less likely, causes.

 

[Redmanll34]

Thank you! I will let you know

 

[Weezy]

How does it taste was the right question. Dont just chase a number; chase a flavor. Is it too sweet? How dry do you want it? If you a modest number like the 1.015 you cited is ok, try mashing at 146. TBH with 11% crystal, its never going to dry out real low.

 

[Redmanll34]

How does it taste was the right question. Dont just chase a number; chase a flavor. Is it too sweet? How dry do you want it? If you a modest number like the 1.015 you cited is ok, try mashing at 146. TBH with 11% crystal, its never going to dry out real low.

You are right , 11% is going to cause some sweetness, but what I didn't expect was it to finish at 1.020 and cause it to be even more so.

I am chasing a flavor, but I am trying to get the kinks worked out so I can efficiently go after that flavor, without having to worry if it will end at 1.020 or 1.015 or 1.012. Maybe I brew this 10 more times and it never goes past 1.020 then I know what im starting with and can go from there.

Thank you for your suggestion Weezy

 

[Weezy]

Cool, you're on a good track. If it was too sweet, I'd recommend cutting the crystal in half (replace with base grain) and mash at 150.if it was just a touch too sweet, lowering the mash temp to mid 140s might do it.

Cheers!

 

[Xhul]

The exact same thing has happened to me with a very similar recipe (except .5lp crystal and .5lp wheat and mostly citra). Same mash temp, same fermentation temps. This was the first time I fermented with Conan that I got from the Yeast Bay. The beer is actually quite delicious, not too sweet but the 1.020 fg has been bothering me. I've heard the same thing that others here report that Conan attenuates more with successive generations. I'm going to try the same recipe with yeast I cultured from Heady Topper cans and see what happens. I have brewed the same malt bill/mash temps with the California ale yeast and it got down to 1.012. In sum, I don't think it is necessarily a problem with process but maybe just a quirk of this yeast.

 

[troglodytes]

Oh man, that makes me wish I had used a different strain to finish up my batch. Not that it doesn't taste great, but it would be much better dried out a bit more.

I think I'm going to brew the same batch with something like WLP001 next time and compare. I'll be missing all those peach notes though.

 

[troglodytes]

I've got a follow on to my stuck at 1.020 experience. The beer was not complete. I did an FFT which also ended at 1.020 (making me think I was safe). It stalled out for a week even after raising temps to the 70's and swirling, but I guess I should have added more yeast.

I bottled using the krausening method which I guess woke everyone up. On top of the 1.3-1.5 vols I added by krausening, the FG dropped from 1.020 to 1.013 in bottle once capped. I've been releasing and recapping every other day to get the pressure down. I calculated the final result at 6.5 vols of CO2. Definitely lost a couple of them gushing completely out. What a delicious beer that has turn well, pretty much horrible.

Any ideas why an FFT would finish at 1.020. Does Conan yeast work better under pressurized conditions?