Strong Ale/Wee Heavy Fermentation Time & Temp

[Culln5]

Hey Guys,
Very new to creating my on recipes but since the kegerator is full with 10 gallons, I've decided that I have the time to brew a big one. Below is my recipe 1.0. I'm not a hop head, but don't want a cup of folgers either. Be honest with me!

My real questions for this forum is fermentation...... What do I do?

- My first thoughts are: 14 Day Primary @ 60, 7 Day Secondary @ 60, then keg (do I carbonate?) and age 14 Days @ 50 ??

- Do I just pitch the yeast and aerate or do I need to use a starter?

- Can I brew this with my current equipment? A 4 gallon SS Pot.

Thanks!
George

4oz Biscuit Malt
4oz Caramel/Crystal Malt 40
4oz Roasted Barley
2oz Melanoidin
2oz Peat Smoked Malt

7lbs Pale Liquid Extract
3lbs Extra Light Dry Extract
3lbs DME Dark Traditional

2oz Northern Brewer (60 mins)
1oz Fuggles (60 mins)
1/2oz Willamette (30 mins)

1pkg Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728)
1pkq Edinburgh Ale (White Labs #WLP028)

1.095 Est OG
1.026 Est FG
31.3 IBU
16.6 SRM
9.1% ABV

 

[Culln5]

Hey Guys,
Very new to creating my on recipes but since the kegerator is full with 10 gallons, I've decided that I have the time to brew a big one. Can I brew this with my current equipment? A 4 gallon SS Pot.

Below is my recipe 1.0. I'm not a hop head, but don't want a cup of folgers either. Be honest with me!

So is this a Strong Ale or a Wee Heavy?

Thanks!
George

4oz Biscuit Malt
4oz Caramel/Crystal Malt 40
4oz Roasted Barley
2oz Melanoidin
2oz Peat Smoked Malt

7lbs Pale Liquid Extract
3lbs Extra Light Dry Extract
3lbs DME Dark Traditional

2oz Northern Brewer (60 mins)
1oz Fuggles (60 mins)
1/2oz Willamette (30 mins)

1pkg Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728)
1pkq Edinburgh Ale (White Labs #WLP028)

1.095 Est OG
1.026 Est FG
31.3 IBU
16.6 SRM
9.1% ABV

 

[Pappers_]

Not sure if two vials is enough for a beer this big - maybe throw in a third or make a starter. You can check it at www.mrmalty.com

Last time I made a Wee Heavy, post-fermentation but prior to kegging, I let it bulk-age in a carboy for a few months. Its a big beer and the little aging helped it. But that kind of aging isn't a requirement.

You didn't ask about this, but I don't like smoked peat or malt in Wee Heavies - its not really a part of the style, if there is any smoke flavor, its very mild and yeast derived. But, I know a lot of people like more prominent smoke in their Wee Heavy.

With your four gallon pot, you must already do partial boils and top-off with water in the fermenter and you would need to do that again with this batch.

 

[kingwood-kid]

I suppose you could squeeze all that into a 4G pot, then top off. For a Wee Heavy, boiling a wort that dense might actually help with some of the carmelized flavors. As far as the yeast goes, you'll need a massive starter. So massive, in fact, that I would make a 3-4 Gallon batch of 1.045ish beer first, and use the cake from that for the Wee Heavy. When you ferment the Big One, I'd skip the secondary and let it sit in primary for a month. Start it around 58, then let it rise to 70 after a week or two to make sure it finishes fermenting. After that, chill & keg. It's probably more in keeping with the style to have low carbonation, but I suppose kegging allows to to have it as bubbly as you like.

 

[flars]

If you are really intent upon using a secondary vessel for aging, don't give the primary a timeline. Rack to the secondary when fermentation is complete. Stable hydrometer readings will tell you when it is done. Taking the beer off the yeast cake can result in not achieving a true FG and the flavors you desire.
Post how it turns out. I've been considering a Wee Heavy also.

 

[Culln5]

Anyone?

 

[tennesseean_87]

I'd not use dark DME (or amber). It may be too roasty. More importantly, you probably don't know what's in it, and can't control what's in it. The point of making your own recipe is tweaking the ratios of specialty grains, and using an unknown pre-mixture is detrimental to that purpose. If you want a little roasted character or color, keep your RB for steeping, or use some chocolate, brown malt, etc. That way if you brew again, you can add or subtract from those numbers knowing exactly how much you had in the recipe before, and you can directly transfer your recipe to AG if you make that move.

 

[Culln5]

OK..... So I've been doing a lot of reading on the forum and have taken everything into consideration (again, I'm a newb).

I've ordered an 8 gallon kettle today for an awesome price, so my equipment is better from the start.

I've never made a yeast starter nor a yeast cake that you guys talk about. Is it possible to just pitch the yeast into the cooled wort?

I see that the secondary is not necessarily needed. I have access to a temp controlled fermentation chamber and am now thinking that 3-4 weeks in the primary at 60 degrees would be sufficient? Then keg and age at 50 degrees from an additional 30 days?

Thoughts??

George

 

[kingwood-kid]

I've never made a yeast starter nor a yeast cake that you guys talk about. Is it possible to just pitch the yeast into the cooled wort?

I see that the secondary is not necessarily needed. I have access to a temp controlled fermentation chamber and am now thinking that 3-4 weeks in the primary at 60 degrees would be sufficient? Then keg and age at 50 degrees from an additional 30 days?

Making yeast starters is pretty easy. You just boil some malt extract in water with a gravity of 1.040 or so, then add yeast. If you have a stirplate, it helps, but if you don't just try to shake the heck out of the container fairly often. The idea is to add oxygen to the liquid, because it's essential for yeast growth. However, you would need such a massive amount of yeast for this beer that you may as well just brew a small batch that you can drink. Just rack the small beer off the yeast and pour the big one on top.

As far as just pitching the yeast packs straight into the beer goes, you can, but it's discouraged. Underpitching will probably make the beer phenolic and estery. For certain styles, a mild underpitch might improve things, depending on one's tastes. This isn't one of those beers. If you don't want to do a starter or use a cake, you could use 3-4 packs of dry yeast (US-05 or Nottingham). Your fermentation schedule sounds good, other than that you'll want to raise the temp to about 70 after a week or so just to make sure the yeast finishes its work. Once the gravity is stable over a 3 day period, you're good to keg and age.

 

[Culln5]

Awesome! Thanks for the help!

Will an airlock suffice on the primary or will I need some type of blow off tube and container? I have no idea if this will overflow?

Also, when I keg from the primary for the aging do I carbonate first?

George

 

[Trox]

As for your temps I would be careful from what I've read Edinburgh yeast doesn't like to be very cold (I believe Whte Labs had min temp around mid 60F).


Edit: just looked and Edinburgh has a temp range of 65-70F

I would also set-up a blow off tube just incase it gets really active, you can always switch to an air lock later when things calm down.

 

[PRE66_6TART]

Yeah those two yeasts have different temperature requirements. The white labs version won't do well that low. You could use them both if you keep it between 65-70, but then you're on the warm end of the wyeast one's range. I would just pick one; I don't think you gain that much by using them both anyway. If it were me I would use the wyeast 1728 because the wider temp range is easier for me to work with, but that's up to you.

And if you've ever made beer before then you've made a yeast cake. You just dumped it down the drain at the end. You can just put some or all of it into your next beer instead, depending on how much yeast you need. That's what I do, and I don't bother washing it or anything, as long as I use it right away. Or you can make a starter or use multiple dry packs like others have said.

Edit: btw I think those Scottish ale yeasts are pretty versatile so you wouldn't necessarily have to make a Scottish ale first if you're going the yeast cake route. I'm about to give it a try as my new house yeast.

 

[05m50dan]

Just a couple of suggestions...
According to Mrmalty.com, you'd need about 377 Billion yeast cells to ferment this 1.095 OG beer. Thats 3.5 packs of healthy liquid yeast to make this beer without a starter, or 2 packs of Nottingham (11g packets) properly rehydrated. You could make a yeast starter with the liquid yeast, but the recommeded amount is 2 packs in a 2.6L starter. You could do this with a 1 gallon wine jug, fill with 2.6liters of 1.040 OG wort, add your liquid yeast when the wort has cooled to room temp, and then swirl the crap out of it every couple hours.
The better way to do this is like another reply stated and make a batch of 1.045 beer. You could then use either one of the yeast strains you chose, or both, to make that beer just by pitching the vials directly. (I would still follow White Lab's recommendations to make a small starter with the vials to get the yeast active first). After about 10-14 days, it should be finished fermenting. When you are ready to brew your Wee Heavy, you can transfer the beef off the trub (also called a yeast cake) with as clean technique as possible. Then take a sanitized solo cup and transfer about half the cup to your cooled Wee Heavy wort after you airate the Wee Heavy wort. This is what I do when making big strong beers from liquid yeast.
Regardless of what yeast format you use, yeast are the most important part of your beer. Fermentation is what makes BEER, not any of the other ingredients. Take care of your yeast! Give them nutrients in the boil, and oxygen (if you can get it, otherwise lots of shaking of the fermenter) once the wort is cooled, and pitch ENOUGH yeast to do the job, and so long as your sanitation practices are good, you'll make good beer. Fermentation temp control is very important too, especially for a big beer like this. I would start it at 62*F for 3 days after you start to see activity, then every day after increase the temp until you reach 70*F. Hold it there until it's completely finished fermenting. I would let Primary Fermentation go for at least 3 weeks. If you want to you could then transfer to a secondary carboy and crash cool it. This will help drop yeast out of suspension. After it clears to the point you want it to, you can transfer to a keg, and store it cool-cold. A big beer like this could use some age to it, it'll only get better.
As to your recipe, I'd drop the Peat Smoked Malt altogether. It's not necessary for this style, nor is it often enjoyable. Peat is a really rough malt to deal with on the homebrew scale. It's very harsh. Also, I'd cut the dark DME out completely and use all Light DME. Get your color from specialty malts. Dark Extracts can be extremely different from one supplier to another, and even inconsistant (flavor-wise) from the same supplier from batch to batch.
Use a blow off tube if you can, at least until the Krausen falls, then switch over to an air lock. I've learned this from experience...It sucks scraping yeast sludge off of your ceiling.

 

[te-wa]

like others say: take your time on this one. i have a wee heavy that has been steadily fermenting in primary for exactly 3 weeks @ 59 degrees. today i turned the ETC up to 65.
i'll prolly rack it to a keg in another week and let it sit at room temp for a month, then carbonate.

*however, i used only one pack of s-05 and the kreusen finally dropped 3 days ago. this late in the game, would pitching a dry Nottingham pack be a waste of time (and money)?

 

[05m50dan]

Not enough info to advise you. What's your gravity reading. Chances are at this point, you didnt have enough yeast at pitching, and adding another packet now won't do much. It may be OK, but in the future don't skimp on yeast, especially with a big beer like this. I made a 1.100 Wee Heavy 17 gallon batch in April and pitched 6 packets of 11g 04. It's on tap now and fantastic.

 

[Culln5]

So I pulled the trigger and brewed this beer. Several changes were made to the recipe and my measured SG was 1.092 (off the estimate by .005).

8oz Caramel/Crystal Malt 40
4oz Biscuit Malt
4oz Melanoidin
4oz Victory
4oz Chocolate Malt

8lbs Pale Liquid Extract
3lbs Extra Light Dry Extract
3lbs Pilsen Dry Extract

1oz Northern Brewer (90 mins)
1oz Fuggles (90 mins)

2 Edinburgh Ale Liquid Yeast (White Labs #WLP028)

1.097 Est OG
1.027 Est FG
37.0 IBU
21.5 SRM
9.4% ABV

You'll notice that my boil was 90 minutes (ugh, how effed am I now?)...... Well, I upgraded my equipment to an 8 gallon kettle and used that for this brew for the first time. So without knowing exactly what my exact boil off was going to be, I guesstimated (wrong might I add). I used 6.5 gallons preboil and after the 60 minutes I was too far over so I decided to extend the boil another 30 minutes. Post boil I was exactly where I wanted (5.25 gallons). HOW WILL THIS AFFECT MY BREW????

Also, the cold fermentation chamber that I had access to decided to take a crap. So, I went with 2 WLP028 liquid yeasts and made a starter (my first, and a success!). I placed it in the access under my stairs with a blowoff tube and away she started to ferment. It's been holding at 68-69 under there for 6 days now. I replaced the blowoff with an airlock yesterday and I will check the gravity at 2 weeks. Hopefully at the 30 day mark the fermentation chamber will be back up and working and I can transfer it to a keg and cold age it for another month.

HOW DID THAT 90 MINUTE BOIL AFFECT IT?

DOES THE RECIPE CHANGE LOOK RIGHT?

HOW IS MY OVERALL HANDLING OF THE BREW DAY AND FERMENTATION SO FAR?

George.

 

[Culln5]

So I pulled the trigger and brewed this beer. Several changes were made to the recipe and my measured SG was 1.092 (off the estimate by .005).

8oz Caramel/Crystal Malt 40
4oz Biscuit Malt
4oz Melanoidin
4oz Victory
4oz Chocolate Malt

8lbs Pale Liquid Extract
3lbs Extra Light Dry Extract
3lbs Pilsen Dry Extract

1oz Northern Brewer (90 mins)
1oz Fuggles (90 mins)

2 Edinburgh Ale Liquid Yeast (White Labs #WLP028)

1.097 Est OG
1.027 Est FG
37.0 IBU
21.5 SRM
9.4% ABV

You'll notice that my boil was 90 minutes (ugh, how effed am I now?)...... Well, I upgraded my equipment to an 8 gallon kettle and used that for this brew for the first time. So without knowing exactly what my exact boil off was going to be, I guesstimated (wrong might I add). I used 6.5 gallons preboil and after the 60 minutes I was too far over so I decided to extend the boil another 30 minutes. Post boil I was exactly where I wanted (5.25 gallons). HOW WILL THIS AFFECT MY BREW????

Also, the cold fermentation chamber that I had access to decided to take a crap. So, I went with 2 WLP028 liquid yeasts and made a starter (my first, and a success!). I placed it in the access under my stairs with a blowoff tube and away she started to ferment. It's been holding at 68-69 under there for 6 days now. I replaced the blowoff with an airlock yesterday and I will check the gravity at 2 weeks. Hopefully at the 30 day mark the fermentation chamber will be back up and working and I can transfer it to a keg and cold age it for another month.

HOW DID THAT 90 MINUTE BOIL AFFECT IT?

DOES THE RECIPE CHANGE LOOK RIGHT?

HOW IS MY OVERALL HANDLING OF THE BREW DAY AND FERMENTATION SO FAR?

George.

 

[dlester]

Take out the peat malt, not to style. Your recipe sounds good otherwise.

 

[roastquake]

The 90 minute boil made it more like a Scotch ale, look up "kettle caramelization". It is traditional in Scottish beers to use little to no specialty malts, save a little roasted barley. instead, they would boil a portion of the wort for an extended time, reducing it and caramelizing it, then adding it back to the batch to achieve caramel flavors that would normally come from crystal malts. Another method of kettle caramelization is to boil the entire batch for an extended period, which is exactly what you did.

Now, just because you have used specialty malts here doesn't mean you did anything wrong. Lots of brewers make Scotch ales with complex grain bills. I think this will be an excellent Scotch ale, albeit probably a hoppy one.

Edit: by the way, you handled your brew day and fermentation great!

 

[Vigo_Carpathian]

Strong Scotch ales are typically pretty simple grain bills consisting of mostly pale malt with a small amount of roasted malt and crystal. An example of a typical recipe would look something like:

85% pale
2% chocolate or roasted
5-10% crystal

and maybe some wheat or dextrine too.

I use 2hr boils to develop the carmelization. Another common technique I use is to boil 1 gallon of your wort down to a quart and add it back to the main wort for boiling. (you should probably do this before steeping the roasted barley to avoid astringency issues...steep the roasted afterwards) Also you should ferment this on the cooler side in the 55-60 range. It makes for a much better beer if you age this cold as well, in the 33-40 range. For all grain, mash really high at 156-158 to develop a wort high in dextrins. If you do all this and keep the hops on the low end, you'll have a great Scotch ale.

 

[statseeker]

Looks good so far. Hope you added more oxygen than a normal wort, because the higher the starting gravity, the more you need. Have some dry yeast at the ready just in case. Hopefully it doesnt stall out. The 90 minute boil might give you a bit more of a hop bite but that will be rounded off in aging. But overall I think it's gonna be good for you.

 

[Culln5]

Looks good so far. Hope you added more oxygen than a normal wort, because the higher the starting gravity, the more you need. Have some dry yeast at the ready just in case. Hopefully it doesnt stall out. The 90 minute boil might give you a bit more of a hop bite but that will be rounded off in aging. But overall I think it's gonna be good for you.

How will I know if it stalls? Like I said, I've changed over to an airlock and I can't see into the vessel (using a bucket). The airlock is slowly releasing gasses, but has slowed down dramatically and is no longer violent, just soft emissions. I have a beer thief on it's way so I don't have an updated gravity yet. If I do need yeast, what do you suggest?

George

 

[reefriot]

I just brewed a nice Scotch ale myself. I used a single pack of wyeast scottish and made a huge starter 2 days ahead of time with my new stir plate.(love this thing)
Transfered to keg and pitched at 68. Things been rockin for 5 days now and isnt slowing a bit. Im a big fan of over pitching yeast and believe i end up with a better product in the end.
So i always boil my big beers for 90 min. I actually took a gallon of first runnings and boiled them on the stove till thw reduced down to a 1/4 of what i started with. Added it back to the boil to give some nice carmel notes.
As for oxygen i whirlpool my wort for 10-15 min prioir to chilling. Then use a transfer pump to chill and seems like it gets plenty of oxygen.
Sounds like your beer will be a good one. I try to keep my scottish beers in the low to mid 60's so they dont pick up any fruity esters.

 

[skitter]

So I pulled the trigger and brewed this beer. Several changes were made to the recipe and my measured SG was 1.092 (off the estimate by .005).

8oz Caramel/Crystal Malt 40
4oz Biscuit Malt
4oz Melanoidin
4oz Victory
4oz Chocolate Malt

8lbs Pale Liquid Extract
3lbs Extra Light Dry Extract
3lbs Pilsen Dry Extract

1oz Northern Brewer (90 mins)
1oz Fuggles (90 mins)

2 Edinburgh Ale Liquid Yeast (White Labs #WLP028)

1.097 Est OG
1.027 Est FG
37.0 IBU
21.5 SRM
9.4% ABV

You'll notice that my boil was 90 minutes (ugh, how effed am I now?)...... Well, I upgraded my equipment to an 8 gallon kettle and used that for this brew for the first time. So without knowing exactly what my exact boil off was going to be, I guesstimated (wrong might I add). I used 6.5 gallons preboil and after the 60 minutes I was too far over so I decided to extend the boil another 30 minutes. Post boil I was exactly where I wanted (5.25 gallons). HOW WILL THIS AFFECT MY BREW????

Also, the cold fermentation chamber that I had access to decided to take a crap. So, I went with 2 WLP028 liquid yeasts and made a starter (my first, and a success!). I placed it in the access under my stairs with a blowoff tube and away she started to ferment. It's been holding at 68-69 under there for 6 days now. I replaced the blowoff with an airlock yesterday and I will check the gravity at 2 weeks. Hopefully at the 30 day mark the fermentation chamber will be back up and working and I can transfer it to a keg and cold age it for another month.

HOW DID THAT 90 MINUTE BOIL AFFECT IT?

DOES THE RECIPE CHANGE LOOK RIGHT?

HOW IS MY OVERALL HANDLING OF THE BREW DAY AND FERMENTATION SO FAR?

George.

So this was a Steeped/Extract brew?

Sounds like something I may be able to try in my Mr. Beer keg Scaled down of course...

This was 5g or 10g batch?

 

[Culln5]

So this was a Steeped/Extract brew?

Sounds like something I may be able to try in my Mr. Beer keg Scaled down of course...

This was 5g or 10g batch?

5 Gallon Extract.

 

[skitter]

Awesome, I'll give it a shot

 

[Culln5]

Hey Guys,
Today marks week 2 of the Primary:

• Estimated SG 1.097
• Estimated FG 1.027
• Estimated ABV 9.2%
• Actual SG 1.092
• Actual 2 Week Gravity 1.030
• Actual 2 Week ABV 8.2%

So, obviously I missed my SG by .005 and 2 weeks into the primary I am .003 from my FG. There isn't any obvious signs of fermentation (visual bubbles in the airlock). Is there still a chance to hit my FG or do you think that I've stalled? Should I consider pitching dry yeast this far into it? It's also a little on the sweet side, do you think that will mellow out with age? How long?

Thanks!
George

 

[Culln5]

Hey Guys,
Today marks week 2 of the Primary:

• Estimated SG 1.097
• Estimated FG 1.027
• Estimated ABV 9.2%
• Actual SG 1.092
• Actual 2 Week Gravity 1.030
• Actual 2 Week ABV 8.2%

So, obviously I missed my SG by .005 and 2 weeks into the primary I am .003 from my FG. There isn't any obvious signs of fermentation (visual bubbles in the airlock). Is there still a chance to hit my FG or do you think that I've stalled? Should I consider pitching dry yeast this far into it? It's also a little on the sweet side, do you think that will mellow out with age? How long?

Thanks!
George

 

[roastquake]

Did you take multiple gravity readings in the past few days? If not, wait two days and check the FG again to make sure it is actually done. I bet it's done, no need to repitch. Let it age for at least 6 months, you can get away with less, but trust me it's worth the wait. I have an 8 month old wee heavy that is ten times smoother than when it was 3 months and even 6 months old

 

[Culln5]

This was the first reading.... I couldn't hold out any longer.... Lol.... I plan to take another reading one week from now.

George

 

[skitter]

This was the first reading.... I couldn't hold out any longer.... Lol.... I plan to take another reading one week from now.

George

If you wouldn't mind letting us know what total fermentation time is, I still don't have a Hydrometer :S

 

[statseeker]

Not all calculations come out exactly right. But I think you're there. Wait 2 more weeks. This is a pretty big beer.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[kingwood-kid]

You can try heating it up to 75-80, or adding dry yeast, or both. That may dry it out a little, it may not change anything. It'll taste a little less sweet cold and carbed, but you can enhance this with some oak, or the liquid tannin wine enhancer.

 

[Culln5]

If you wouldn't mind letting us know what total fermentation time is, I still don't have a Hydrometer :S

My plan is 30 days in the primary and then keg it under slight pressure and cold age it at 50, tasting it monthly.

George

 

[dlester]

It's not uncommon to miss the FG by a few basis points. However, since you need to let it rest, move it to a secondary and wait a few months.

 

[dlester]

It's not uncommon to miss the FG by a few basis points. However, since you need to let it rest, move it to a secondary and wait a few months.

 

[Culln5]

Well my three week gravity is also 1.030 so I'm sure my fermentation has finished. The taste test made it obvious that the beer is young and rich with alcohol. I'll keg it a week from today and try to be as patient as possible.

George

Sent from my XT1080 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[Culln5]

Not all calculations come out exactly right. But I think you're there. Wait 2 more weeks. This is a pretty big beer.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Home Brew mobile app

Well my three week gravity is also 1.030 so I'm sure my fermentation has finished. The taste test made it obvious that the beer is young and rich with alcohol. I'll keg it a week from today and try to be as patient as possible.

George

 

[Culln5]

Week 4 and as expected my final gravity is 1.030. I have decided to put it a secondary for a week and then keg and age. It has a slight chocolate coffee taste and full body feel to it. Although, still on the wrong side. I can't wait for the three month and six month tastes!

George

Sent from my XT1080 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[Culln5]

She's now in a keg and aging at 50 degrees. I hope I can hold out for the 6 months!

George