Strike Temperature

[Mute_Ant_Brew]

I assume most BIAB brewers mash with their full volume of water for the entire brew.
Assuming this I have been heating my strike water regularly over 165 degrees.
Is it possible that, by doing this to achieve mash temperatures of 158, I am denaturing the enzymes of the malts before reaching a homogenized mash temperature?
My last three brews had efficiencies of 50, 65, 57 respectively. No consistency at all.
My ph of the last brew was 5.26
I double crushed my grain.
I squeeze a lot
I stir after 30 minutes into the mash.

 

[Bigdaddyale]

I assume most BIAB brewers mash with their full volume of water for the entire brew.
Assuming this I have been heating my strike water regularly over 165 degrees.
Is it possible that, by doing this to achieve mash temperatures of 158, I am denaturing the enzymes of the malts before reaching a homogenized mash temperature?
My last three brews had efficiencies of 50, 65, 57 respectively. No consistency at all.
My ph of the last brew was 5.26
I double crushed my grain.
I squeeze a lot
I stir after 30 minutes into the mash.

Have you calibrated your thermometer lately?

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

Maybe your strike temp is a little high? I strike at 157F. Initial mash temp is typically 154. After 60 minutes, wrapped in insulation and covered with a moving blanket (no stirring), temp is usually about 151F. I also double mill the grains and squeeze a lot. Efficiency 65-75%

 

[mongoose33]

I assume most BIAB brewers mash with their full volume of water for the entire brew.
Assuming this I have been heating my strike water regularly over 165 degrees.
Is it possible that, by doing this to achieve mash temperatures of 158, I am denaturing the enzymes of the malts before reaching a homogenized mash temperature?
My last three brews had efficiencies of 50, 65, 57 respectively. No consistency at all.
My ph of the last brew was 5.26
I double crushed my grain.
I squeeze a lot
I stir after 30 minutes into the mash.

When I did BIAB I was using typically about 7 or 7.25 gallons of strike water. I'd heat it to about 158 or 159.

Here are the things that affect mash temp: strike water temp, strike water volume, temperature of the crushed grain, amount of the crushed grain.

If you're having to go to 165, something's wrong. You don't say what your water volume is, nor the amount of grain nor where it was stored prior to doughing in, so hard to pinpoint some source of the problem without more info.

I learned over time that there were hidden places that temp was influenced. Once I kept my crushed grain in the garage overnight, and temps there dropped to 50. Guess what that did to my mash temp? Because the grain was cold, dropped it lower than I'd expected. Now, the grain is always kept in the house at room temp.

I also discovered that there was latent heat in my propane burner. I was using a Hellfire, and when I got the temp to the right point, I'd shut off the gas. Guess what? That burner was HOT; the kettle supports even turned red in the heat. When I turned off the propane, the hot burner assembly kept heating the water, ending up higher than I'd intended. I learned to stop heating a few degrees short of my target, expecting it to rise into that point.


These are all things that might be affecting your results. Assuming your thermometer is actually accurate, there's no way you should need to go to 165 degrees and, yes, that may be denaturing some of the enzymes before the temp drops enough.

Check out some of the above, let us know what you discover is the problem. Good luck!

 

[Mute_Ant_Brew]

Sorry missed a few details.
My grain temp was 60 for 13lbs
Brewers friend put me at 166 F to achieve about 158 mash temperature with 7.25 gallons. I got 158 but I pour my grain into this water. I get the feeling that some of the grain is getting super heated which is made worse by the large volume of water taking longer to cool to my desired mash temperature.

 

[Mute_Ant_Brew]

Im rebrewing right as I post this. I will share my results post brew.

 

[Mute_Ant_Brew]

Alright, here is the update.
Just took my preboil gravity reading. As long as my volumes are where I think they should be I will have 75% efficiency. An iodine tested confirmed full starch conversion.
To eliminate the possibility of denaturing I heated my strike water to my desired mash temperature (155) then added my malt. I then gently kept heating while constantly stirring until I reached three degrees below 155. At 30 minutes into my 90 minute mash I stirred and measured my temperature and I was at 155. I insulate my kettle with two blankets and only lost 1 degree after the next 60 minutes.
I will add that I did crush my grain a bit finer this time.
I use a false bottom in my kettle so I wasnt worried about scorching my bag.
I dont rinse the bag but I do squeeze it so I am comfortable with the 75% mark.

 

[Weaves]

For my BIAB I still use a small amount of water for sparging. I tend to use 1.5qt/lb and save the rest. That helps with my efficiency as long as I have my temps right which has been my biggest issue (although it was only a BIG issue once which thankfully still turned out alright)

 

[FlabbyRoach]

Maybe your strike temp is a little high? I strike at 157F. Initial mash temp is typically 154. After 60 minutes, wrapped in insulation and covered with a moving blanket (no stirring), temp is usually about 151F. I also double mill the grains and squeeze a lot. Efficiency 65-75%

I'm with HB2 with strike temps. Usually never go over 160 for strike temp and then end up around 154 ish for most of my brews. I double crush and keep the grains at room temp inside the house. Using a moving blanket for a wrap my mash doesn't move but 1-2 degrees. I do not squeeze but let drain thru most of the boil. I use Brewers Friend for most things but use biabcalculator.com for volume and strike temp with full volume and no sparge. Efficiency is around 72/75.

 

[wilserbrewer]

My guess is that your finer crush was the cure rather than your strike temperature...

Just a hunch as it is my guess that the enzymes are plentiful and fairly resistant

 

[Mute_Ant_Brew]

My guess is that your finer crush was the cure rather than your strike temperature...

Just a hunch as it is my guess that the enzymes are plentiful and fairly resistant

I'm getting the feeling you are correct. I changed too many variables at once. I did hit 80% efficiency for the first time in my brewing career.
Next time I may avoid my over complicated mash in, and see what happens.

 

[bgmac]

I second the finer crush. I regularly heat strike water up into the mid 160s and always get over 75% efficiency. Its all about the crush.

 

[Ninoid]

Does you lightly pour grain with constant mixing for prevent creating balls?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Does you lightly pour grain with constant mixing for prevent creating balls?

I don’t, I add all the grain at once as fast as I can dump it in and stir immediately until there are no clumps.

Adding the grain a little at a time and stirring is too much effort for me when adding it all at once works fine for me.

 

[LittleRiver]

Does you lightly pour grain with constant mixing for prevent creating balls?

Yes. Like this:

• grind grains into a 5gal bucket
• clip the handle of the bucket to the rope/ratchet-pulley (that I use to raise my bag after the mash)
• raise the bucket to a convenient height and let the rope hold the weight
• use my left hand to slowly tip the contents into the kettle, while stirring with a whisk in my right hand

I've never seen a dough ball.

 

[Ninoid]

Yes. Like this:

• grind grains into a 5gal bucket
• clip the handle of the bucket to the rope/ratchet-pulley (that I use to raise my bag after the mash)
• raise the bucket to a convenient height and let the rope hold the weight
• use my left hand to slowly tip the contents into the kettle, while stirring with a whisk in my right hand

I've never seen a dough ball.

I do exactly that.
Once I hit it all at once and had 65% efficiency.
Otherwise, BIAB / No Sparge and standard crushing, my usual efficiency is about 75%. From my experience, small changes in mash temperature do not affect the efficiency but only on the attenuation of yeast.

 

[hottpeper13]

What is your heat source? if you have a false bottom and a direct fire burner, the liquid under the false bottom does not get moved around and might(will) denature the enzymes. How did your beer ferment out?

 

[Ninoid]

What is your heat source? if you have a false bottom and a direct fire burner, the liquid under the false bottom does not get moved around and might(will) denature the enzymes. How did your beer ferment out?

I BIAB and not heat throughout the mash time and not have false bottom. Heat strike water up to 75'C, mix grain and wait 45 - 60 minutes. Temperature falls for ten degrees.

Yeast attenuation is 70 - 75% for US-05, 85 - 90% for BE-134 and 85% for WB-05.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Assuming this I have been heating my strike water regularly over 165 degrees.
Is it possible that, by doing this to achieve mash temperatures of 158, I am denaturing the enzymes of the malts before reaching a homogenized mash temperature?

In response to the original topic...I am pretty sure the answer is no. You will not denature enzymes during the mash in phase. 158F is a pretty high mash temp, so it is somewhat questionable why you are mashing in this range. You will denature Beta Amylase very quickly at 158F anyway. So in this range you are counting mostly on Alpha Amylase anyway which will survive the higher mash in temps.

A recent "unplanned experiment" of mine make me question the general idea that mash temps and pH have a large impact on efficiency/OG. At the start of boil I realized my thermometer was off 10F, so my 152F mash was actually at 162F. I measured the pH of that beer and it was near 5.0. The thing is, I hit my expected FG almost right on the nose (1.052 for a porter). The fermentability of that beer was terrible, and I ended up with a 2.9% beer.