Strange plastic taste that creeps into my beer

[OswaldvW]

I am hoping for a little guidance. I have been brewing about one and a half years and have done everything from extract, partial mash, BIAB and all-grain brewing.

I have noticed a plastic-like taste that creeps into my beer. It is not apparent when bottling. It appears after the beer is carbed and chilled. Sometimes, it is apparent immediately when I open a bottle. Other times, the flavour kind of creeps in after a few weeks. I have thought it might be:

1.) water (but I have changed water source, used distilled, and made sure my water has no chlorine). So, it is definitely not a chlorophenol issue.

2.) it might be pH from mashing, but I sometimes get this weird flavor on extract brews, too.

3.) I am wondering if this is due to yeast health issues. I am wondering if it my wort needs to be aerated more before pitching yeast.

4.) the two times I have had the taste prominently was on a blonde ale recipe and a Vienna/Hallertauer SMaSH that I did. This makes me wonder if it might be some kind of diacetyl thing going on and my taste buds are picking up the flavour as a plastic/wax thing, not a butter thing. I have been doing 60 minute boils, but am thinking of upping this to 90 minute boils.

Any suggestions? Please?

 

[zmanzorro]

What temperature are you fermenting at?

 

[OswaldvW]

temps in the low 60's (62) up to 68º F.

Also, sanitizer of choice is Star-San. Use PBW for cleaning carboys.

 

[Vogellied]

Came across the article and recipe (post below) which got me to read this thread. Excited to try both the following rather...rustic..recipe, as well as some of the more modern batches mentioned. Anyone every try this old school style?
This wintry, Puritan-style brew is based on a recipe from Directions for Cookery, in its Various Branches by Eliza Leslie, 1840. Brewed with real spruce branches, hops, dark maple syrup and no grain, it’s light, yeasty and dramatically different from modern beer.
Ingredients in the Spruce Beer Cocktail

http://liquor.com/recipes/spruce-beer/
http://liquor.com/articles/drink-like-a-pilgrim/

1 gallon Water
1 gallon Plastic bag full of spruce limbs (the tips and newer growth)
1 cup Dark maple syrup
.24 oz Hops (such as Willamette and Centennial)
1 packet Ale yeast
6 Raisins
5 Allspice berries, cracked (optional)
1 teaspoon Ground ginger (optional)
Boil water, hops and spices in a large pot for 20 minutes. Add the spruce limbs and boil for another 10 minutes. Strain the mixture through a mesh brew bag (if you have one) or a metal strainer. Let the liquid stand until it is warm.

Sanitize a gallon glass fermenter. Pour the warm spruce liquid into the jug. Add the yeast and the sugar. Cork the jug with a rubber stopper and an airlock. Allow it to ferment for 2 to 4 days, or until it stops bubbling.

Sanitize your bottles, Put three raisins in the bottom of each bottle and fill with the liquid. (The original recipe claims that the raisins stop the fermentation process, but it’s mistaken; they’re to give the yeast one last meal, which carbonates the beverage once it’s bottled.)

Allow to sit another two days. Enjoy!

 

[pdxal]

Infection. Check your sanitation practices before/when bottling.

 

[OswaldvW]

And if it isn't an infection? What are the other alternatives?

 

[Braufessor]

Most obvious would be chlorine - but seems you have that in hand.
Stressed yeast/fermentation issues possibly.
Sanitation is a possibility.

The other thing to consider - your tubing.

I Got a picnic tap with tubing on it once and it smelled very strongly of "plastic/vinyl"...... I rinsed, PBW, cleaned, star san.... etc...... but when I poured a beer through it - it absolutely was horrible - tasted like vinyl. switched the tap line and beer was perfect. Maybe a siphon tubing or something? Longshot, but if you smell your plastic, and any of it SMELLS like plastic (strongly) and it is contacting your beer - maybe that???

 

[pdxal]

I would think that a plastic flavor that is not present at bottling and comes on or increases with time as you mention would most likely be an infection. Doubtful that the carbonation would produce plastic flavor, and flavors related to water/ph/fermentation flaws/yeast health would be present before and at bottling rather than coming on afterward. You might want to check out or replace your cold side tubing and fittings or equipment. Good luck.

 

[bell0347]

I struggled,and still do on occasion, with this same issue a few years ago. There was a couple threads on here I was following at the time on the issue and the general consensus over several months of discussion was infection/sanitation issue or yeast health/pitch rate issues I believe. I will say that since then I have upgraded as much of my equipment as possible to glass and or stainless and I have minimal issues. I wash and sanitize the $&@? Out of my bottling bucket before and after each use now and throw it out if it develops the slightest little scratch. The same with my bottles. The get hot steam washed in the wash machine the star saned.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[watermelon83]

What temperature are you bottle conditioning at?

 

[OswaldvW]

What temperature are you bottle conditioning at?

room temperature, typically 68-71º F. Sometimes a tad cooler.

 

[watermelon83]

Does it taste like chewing on a garden hose washer? Like a black rubber taste?

If so I had/have the same issue in a lot of past beers. Seems to go away after ferm temp control though. The cooler the basement gets the less noticeable it is. Ten years ago cooling vessels during fermentation wasn't nearly as popular as it is now. I used to ferment in a first floor closet. Beer was always fruity and had that runner/plastic taste. I'd try making sure the temperature fermentor isn't creeping up during the beginning phases.

I just brewed a Pliney clone ambient at 68f, nearly shat myself when the thermostrip showed 74f two days after pitching. Kicked myself for not waiting for my cooler to be done.

 

[OswaldvW]

I would not describe it as a black rubber taste. It is a sometimes subtle taste, but noticeably plastic and always in the aftertaste.

I have just ordered new racking equipment and am going into double secret probation sanitizing mode on my next batch of beer. Will be double and triple cleaning everything in the hopes that is what is going on.

 

[Threetall]

I had this problem in one batch of my beer. If you're following all of the cleaning sanitizing steps I highly doubt it's your equipment.
Maybe your water. Where I brew my water is very soft so I eliminated that as an issue.
I really think the big issue here is yeast health. When I had a lagged fermentation because my beer got too cold for a couple of days I got the plastic taste. Once I really focused on healthy yeast and fast fermentations, this problem went away.

The only other instance I have noticed a plastic taste is when some people at my homebrew club finished a berliner weiss (that involves lacto) with brett trois. The brett and lacto had some weird interaction that caused a strong plastic taste. So don't finish sours with brett trois.

 

[Vogellied]

Sorry for posting the recipe earlier... that was meant for another post. DOH!

I have to agree with possible secondary infection. I had changed my processes and introduced some non-sterile transfer techniques which really shone in not one but two batches of beer. Only after my second batch came out with a plastic taste, which wasn't prominent but instead was evident in the finish, did I look at what I was doing and found a very small step I had changed in bringing my total fermenting volume up was the likely culprit. It wasn't even apparent until it bottled conditioned for three weeks, then it got stronger and stronger, supporting a non-desirable organism as probable source. After sitting in a dark box for a few months the beer got really good. The flavor is still there but it is very subtle and that batch is still better than half of what I can buy at the local pub.

 

[Beerbeque]

I hope you figure out your problem Oswald. I've had some weird off flavors in the past but never plastic. That sounds gross.
Could it be coming from the hose you use to drain your kettle into your fermenter? or maybe your hose from fermenter to your bottling bucket?

 

[watermelon83]

Seems like it would have to be a fairly strong bug to survive the fermented beer.

 

[OswaldvW]

I'm not entirely convinced it is an infection, but for a few dollars, I think it is worth me getting some new racking equipment, hoses, and doing a solid job on sanitizing for my next brew.

 

[watermelon83]

True. Good luck!

 

[OswaldvW]

I bottled my house bitter a few weeks ago. First two weeks, tasted great. Last night, I started noticing the plastic flavor again.

I doubt it is an infection for a number of reasons. I bought new bottling equipment, when crazy with PBW and star san, and also used the dishwasher for pasteurizing/cleaning the bottles prior to star san.

Also, I don't have this flavor in my bottled braggots, meads and ciders, just beer.

I need to find out why this this happening. It is most aggravating.

 

[zoomzilla]

I've had this issue a lot and I narrowed it down to 2 possible causes. DMS from no chill cooling with a lid on or possibly from not rinsing well enough after cleaning. If its not present when you bottle then present after bottling you may want to triple rinse your bottles before sanitizing. Then use the star San sparingly. I know everyone says it leaves no taste but I don't trust it to be completely flavorless.

 

[grrickar]

Does it taste like chewing on a garden hose washer? Like a black rubber taste?

If so I had/have the same issue in a lot of past beers. Seems to go away after ferm temp control though. The cooler the basement gets the less noticeable it is. Ten years ago cooling vessels during fermentation wasn't nearly as popular as it is now. I used to ferment in a first floor closet. Beer was always fruity and had that runner/plastic taste. I'd try making sure the temperature fermentor isn't creeping up during the beginning phases.

I just brewed a Pliney clone ambient at 68f, nearly shat myself when the thermostrip showed 74f two days after pitching. Kicked myself for not waiting for my cooler to be done.

Isn't a rubber taste from yeast generally autolysis? I would think that would only come into play if a beer was left in primary for months without secondary racking.

 

[Hanso]

I've had this issue a lot and I narrowed it down to 2 possible causes. DMS from no chill cooling with a lid on or possibly from not rinsing well enough after cleaning. If its not present when you bottle then present after bottling you may want to triple rinse your bottles before sanitizing. Then use the star San sparingly. I know everyone says it leaves no taste but I don't trust it to be completely flavorless.

I agree. Not rinsing Star San when bottling leaves a strange sharpness but I wouldn't describe it as plastic. My friends with less developed palates don't care or notice but to me it just knocks the beer down a notch from where it could be - it's distracting but not plastic.

Oswald could another descriptor for the flavor be metallic, medicinal or band-aid?

 

[Hanso]

How do you treat your water? More info is better. Do you ferment in the same fermenter as your cider meads and braggots? Do you make starters? What yeasts have you used that the problem has come from and what were the dates? Have you boiled your racking tubing or replaced it recently?

 

[OswaldvW]

Oswald could another descriptor for the flavor be metallic, medicinal or band-aid?

I have encountered band-aid before in someone else's homebrew. I wouldn't say it is band-aid, medicinal or metallic. But again, I am not that experienced in describing off-flavors.

 

[OswaldvW]

How do you treat your water? More info is better.

my water profile is:
Ca 19
Mg 6
Na 2
SO4 9
Cl 2
HCO3 90

I use gypsum and/or calcium chloride when trying to match various water profiles. Sometimes no additions.

Do you ferment in the same fermenter as your cider meads and braggots?

sometimes, mostly not.

Do you make starters?

yes, I make starters

What yeasts have you used that the problem has come from and what were the dates?

S-04, WL002, Wyeast 1084 Irish, S-05, WL001. I didn't recall the dates, but I remember the WL002 I used on my most recent bitter (brewed end of Dec. '14) was to expire in January '15.

Have you boiled your racking tubing or replaced it recently?

I recently purchased new racking cane and tubing for this exact reason for use with my December/Jan brew.

 

[Beerbeque]

Also make sure you disassemble your bottling bucket spigot and bottling wand valve and clean them. Nasty things can hide there and cause infections after bottling. It happened to me.

 

[OswaldvW]

Also make sure you disassemble your bottling bucket spigot and bottling wand valve and clean them. Nasty things can hide there and cause infections after bottling. It happened to me.

I just did that for the last bottling session, but I think I'll revisit it on the next batch. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[OswaldvW]

OK. It has been about 3 weeks or so since I bottled an Irish Red and a Saison.
So far, so good. No off-flavours whatsoever. What have I done differently for these two batches?

1.) 90 minute boil
2.) primed with honey (not corn sugar or cane sugar)
3.) used iodophor solution on my racking equipment, went crazy with sanitizing bucket and spigot, etc.
4.) soaked bottles in PBW, rinsed, and then baked the bottles in the oven over an hour for sterilisation. Bottle tops covered with aluminium foil before baking so there was a sterile lid on each. Bottled the next day or 12 hours when bottles were room temperature.

I will update again after another few weeks to see of the flavour stays away.

 

[OswaldvW]

As of 4.14.15 still no off-flavours. I have repeated my boiling-sanitising-bottling regimen for another batch in the hopes that I have finally figured out how to produce beer without that distinct off-putting taste.