Stout yeast?

[newb]

So my buddy and I are getting set to brew a left hand - milk stout clone, and a gingerbread stout, the recipes both call for safale 05 I think. Now my brewing partner says he is scared that yeast is going to take our beer another direction. Both of these recipes we have a full pound of lactose and some flaked oats. We wants these things silky smooth and creamy. He thinks this yeast will give us a crisp flavor almost like lagers have... Is he right?

 

[zuckfoltzfus]

my oatmeal stout is definitely crisp

 

[inhousebrew]

05 is generally regarded as pretty high attenuator that is crisp and clean. It is kind of a default go to dry yeast for many people. Is there another liquid yeast option? I'm sure you're beer won't be lager like but I still don't think that would be my first choice for a oatmeal stout. But maybe that attenuation helps keep it low enough with all that oatmeal and lactose???

 

[jerrodm]

You could go with S-04, which would give a more British stout feel, or WLP004, which is my personal favorite for stouts. If you want something sweeter, Windsor is a good choice.

 

[newb]

No liquid option on the recipes.. But I'm open to suggestions haha I don't know if crisp is whAt we want, I think I want it to be more like gingerbread chocolate milk shake motor oil haha

 

[newb]

Thanks for the suggestions jerrod. Much appreciated.

 

[stratslinger]

I'd definitely keep in mind what inhousbrew pointed out - especially with the milk stout, you're going to have a lot of unfermentable sugars in those stouts, so you might actually benefit from having something like S05 fermenting out all the other stuff more fully. It could make for a really interesting experiment though, if you could do a 10 gallon recipe and pitch S05 to half, and S04 to the other, and see just how different the two resulting beers come out.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

+1 to WLP004.

 

[moti_mo]

Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale is amazing for stouts, its my go-to for my milk stout

 

[mrstevenund]

Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale is amazing for stouts, its my go-to for my milk stout

+1 for Irish Ale yeast. Adds a more complex and depth flavor compared to something like Wyeast 1056.

 

[inhousebrew]

Well, as you can see there is not ever one right answer for a yeast recommendation. I like the Wyeast Irish Ale but if you wanna stick with dry yeast the 04 would be good. That said, 05 would make you a good base milk stout so if you want to make it again you would have something neutral to compare it to. That and I'm sure 05 would turn out a fine beer.

 

[newb]

I'd definitely keep in mind what inhousbrew pointed out - especially with the milk stout, you're going to have a lot of unfermentable sugars in those stouts, so you might actually benefit from having something like S05 fermenting out all the other stuff more fully. It could make for a really interesting experiment though, if you could do a 10 gallon recipe and pitch S05 to half, and S04 to the other, and see just how different the two resulting beers come out.

That's what I was thinking we should haha

 

[jpc8015]

I agree that US-05 will give you a fine beer. However, if you are looking for a bit more British character S-04 may be the way to go. Either way you will get good beer.

 

[adamjackson]

Every stout I've brewed has been the Wyeast 1098. I've really enjoyed how those beers come out. I"m sure 05 would be fine though.

 

[jerrodm]

I've actually never used the Wyeast Irish Ale--I've always been a WLP004 guy. For those who have used both, how do they compare with one another?

 

[newb]

Yeah so here was the verdict, I went with the 04. Lhbs said the 05 would be fine, but if I wanted to be certain it was more sweet and had more malt flavors just drop to the 04- seemed to be the general consensus on here as well so there you have it. Thanks all for the responses.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

Great, I'm glad you settled on a yeast. What are you using for a recipe and mash temp? I've seen a number of "why is my FG so high" threads because the OP used a pound of lactose and or a high mash temp. I haven't seen a recipe calculator yet that takes into account mash temp or unfermentable sugars, but the math is simple enough.

 

[kingwood-kid]

The heavy percentage of roasted malts, gingerbread spices and lactose will obscure a lot of the subtle differences between yeasts. But if you want silky mouthfeel, WY1335 is fantastic.

 

[FermentNEthinG]

I used to use a Irish ale yeast.(WLP004) More recently I have been using a English ale yeast in my milk stout recipes. (WLP002) It has a very nice finish and leaves a residual sweetness that is further complimented by the lactose addition. Very nice!

 

[newb]

I usually leave the lactose out of the fermentables in my recipes. This way I know what what the grav should be. Then take the grav before the lactose is added in the last ten at the end of the boil. Since I use a refractometer I can grab a few drops an let it cool quick enough to get an accurate reading.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

For your FG calculation do you add the lactose back in? It's about 43pppg and I would think that almost all of it remains in the FG.

 

[newb]

Ok so I doubt this is the MOST accurate way of doing it but here is what I've been doing. I'm sure there is a better way and if so please tell me.

On brew day I take two readings. One before, one after the lactose. When the work is done I go to the computer (I use hopville - it's free) and replace the estimated OG (if not already the same) with the one I got before the lactose(remember I do not have the lactose entered under fermentables in the recipe. I list it with the spices as a misc. ingredient) Ok so I have a target or estimated FG as if I hadnt added lactose. Then I note the difference in the 2 gravs I took. For example if it jumped from 60 - 67 I note a 7 point difference the lactose made. Now here is where the quazi-guess work happens haha and reason I say maybe this isn't 100% accurate. I assume I can add that .007 to the estimated final gravity?(I don't see why not, and it seems to hold up so far) So if it estimates a finish at 1.016 I assume it's going to be more like 1.023 or less. Now come the end of a ferment when the hydrometer stops changing for a few days, the yeast is done whether I like it or not haha So if it is close -say it ends at 1.020- I bottle/keg. If it is lower then my estimated then I am sure it is fine, but if it wasnt close and significantly higher, then I might worry (possibly stuck ferment or something) but I haven't run into this yet. So far this has seemed to work well for me.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

That's the same way I do it for recipe formulation. It's worked pretty well for me as well.

 

[newb]

Ok so the S-04, my basement stays right around 63... This too cold?

 

[WoodlandBrew]

Ok so the S-04, my basement stays right around 63... This too cold?

I did a cream ale with S-04 recently in at 64. It came out nice and clean. I pitched at 61 and it did take about two days to really get going. But it came out great.

 

[newb]

Good stuff.

 

[Polboy]

Its a pity i didnt find this thread sooner, lots of good suggestions here but im fermenting my vanilla stout with cali lager and 2nd carboy with Danys favorite (1450) at 60F

 

[newb]

I don't know much about this, but I was in another post an someone was on a huge rant/tangent bashing American brewers for brewing ales and most specifically stouts and such with lager yeasts...(I don't know why, because I tuned him out quick on account of the soap box approach he was on) any way I'm not sure what the problem was, but if you haven't already (not saying you haven't) I would look into the possible disadvantages of using lager yeast on stouts?

 

[moti_mo]

I don't know much about this, but I was in another post an someone was on a huge rant/tangent bashing American brewers for brewing ales and most specifically stouts and such with lager yeasts...(I don't know why, because I tuned him out quick on account of the soap box approach he was on) any way I'm not sure what the problem was, but if you haven't already (not saying you haven't) I would look into the possible disadvantages of using lager yeast on stouts?

Check out some research on baltic porters. Then find one and try it. Then brew one. They're amazing. They originated bc imperial stouts were becoming popular in England in the 18th century and brewers in the Baltic region wanted to replicate these styles, but using their typical brewing process and ingredients. So they brewed big porters/stouts/imperials and feremented cold with lager yeast. Not to reiterate, but they're amazing.

That's how a style was born in the 18th century. Styles are great, and have their place, but style police are quite annoying to me - who's to say your experimentation in the 21st century won't produce another internationally recognized style for the future? And even if it doesn't, if it makes a delicious beer, who cares?

 

[Polboy]

yea baltic porter was the inspiration for lager yeast and i choose cali lager so i can ferment at the same tepm as carboy with ale yeast but after kingwood-kid suggestion i think i should have used WY1335 instead of 1450, i like silky and smooth mouthfeel idea, but its too late to change it now, its 40h of fermentation now and looks like 60 F works well for both strains