Stout turned out like soda instead of beer

[jmitchell3]

Hey all.

So this is kind of the first time in 60+ batches ive really been stymied.

Brewed an oatmeal stout last saturday, knocked out and pitched 1 purepitch wlp-005 and 1 packet S04 into 6 gallons in my fermenter. Oatmeal stout, OG 1.057. It fermented to 1.023 by monday morning and just stopped. Added a rehydrated pack of us-05 to try to get it to attenuate, but no joy so i threw my hands up and kegged it wednesday night. (Mon/tues/wed at final gravity of 1.023). Fastest ferment ever, im sure.

No to the conundrum. This beer has zero head. Absolutely none. If i serve it under higher pressure it will get big bubbles that fizz like coke and then all of the foam will disappear. So it sits there in the glass and looks like black coffee, but when tasted it has carbonation to it.

One additional fact: the fermentation had zero krausen. Just flat lack surface with rolling turbulence as the fermentation progressed. So weird.

Disclaimers: this was a quick and dirty batch for a brewout, and i wanted to try a simple biab process so we cobbled together a system from various components and gave it a go. No O2, no temp control on the fermentation, just the 60-70 ambient in my garage. The resulting beer has decent flavor but is a but full because it didnt attenuate fully (target FG was 1.016).

Would love to hear if anyone knows what may have gone on with this beer! Thanks!

 

[Sadu]

I have brewed an oatmeal stout 3 times, same OG as yours, and they do tend to finish higher than what Beersmith or the recipe suggests. My last one finished at 1.020 and tasted amazing.

I think if you mashed slightly higher than expected plus the oats in the recipe could easily see you all done at 1.023 - but without that same sweetness that would wreck other types of beer.

My stouts and porters also have very little krausen, I use Wyeast 1450 Denny's favourite for these and just assumed it was how this particular yeast worked.

Can't offer any advice on the head though.

 

[Rush]

"no temp control" can easily lead to too high of a fermentation temperature in the fusel production range. Fusel alcohols can produce fusel oils which will kill the head. Also 4 days on gas might not be sufficient for the carbonation to really take hold of the beerand it could just be undercarbed. Stressed yeast(under pitching, no aeration) can also cause fusel alcohol and other head retention problems.

 

[jmitchell3]

"no temp control" can easily lead to too high of a fermentation temperature in the fusel production range. Fusel alcohols can produce fusel oils which will kill the head. Also 4 days on gas might not be sufficient for the carbonation to really take hold of the beerand it could just be undercarbed. Stressed yeast(under pitching, no aeration) can also cause fusel alcohol and other head retention problems.

Internal fermenter temp maxed out at 77F so not too bad but definitely high for those strains. Thinking O2 and pitching rates were likely not an issue (300bn cells is plenty for that OG). Ive not heard of fusel oils but worth exploring for sure.

 

[RM-MN]

When people bottle their beers we tell them to wait 3 weeks before opening to get carbonation. Carbonation doesn't take that long, more like a couple days but at that short of time in the bottle the beer won't form a decent head but it will in 3 weeks. I think you have shorted this beer on the time it needs and if you let it sit at room temp for a bit more you'll find that it improves. Being a stout it will improve a lot more in flavor if you give it a couple months at room temp.

 

[TechyDork]

Hey all.

So this is kind of the first time in 60+ batches ive really been stymied.

Brewed an oatmeal stout last saturday, knocked out and pitched 1 purepitch wlp-005 and 1 packet S04 into 6 gallons in my fermenter. Oatmeal stout, OG 1.057. It fermented to 1.023 by monday morning and just stopped. Added a rehydrated pack of us-05 to try to get it to attenuate, but no joy so i threw my hands up and kegged it wednesday night. (Mon/tues/wed at final gravity of 1.023). Fastest ferment ever, im sure.

No to the conundrum. This beer has zero head. Absolutely none. If i serve it under higher pressure it will get big bubbles that fizz like coke and then all of the foam will disappear. So it sits there in the glass and looks like black coffee, but when tasted it has carbonation to it.

One additional fact: the fermentation had zero krausen. Just flat lack surface with rolling turbulence as the fermentation progressed. So weird.

Disclaimers: this was a quick and dirty batch for a brewout, and i wanted to try a simple biab process so we cobbled together a system from various components and gave it a go. No O2, no temp control on the fermentation, just the 60-70 ambient in my garage. The resulting beer has decent flavor but is a but full because it didnt attenuate fully (target FG was 1.016).

Would love to hear if anyone knows what may have gone on with this beer! Thanks!

If I am reading this right you brewed an oatmeal stout, let it ferment for 4-5 days, then kegged it and let it carb for a few days and are now drinking it?

My first thought is that this beer just hasn't had enough time. It sounds like the fermentation may have been rushed a bit, and that it also hasn't had much time to condition.

I would think a beer like an oatmeal stout would need at least a week or two in the keg to fully carb up come in to its' own. I find that my stouts are better after a few months (if i can keep them around that long)

 

[jmitchell3]

"no temp control" can easily lead to too high of a fermentation temperature in the fusel production range. Fusel alcohols can produce fusel oils which will kill the head. Also 4 days on gas might not be sufficient for the carbonation to really take hold of the beerand it could just be undercarbed. Stressed yeast(under pitching, no aeration) can also cause fusel alcohol and other head retention problems.

I'm ready to go with the fusel oil explanation at this point. I've never seen a beer this dead before. Of course I've never NOT used temp control before so....lol

 

[RoadKing]

Did you wash your fermenters with a soap or cleaner that had an an antifoaming agent?

 

[jmitchell3]

Did you wash your fermenters with a soap or cleaner that had an an antifoaming agent?

I use PBW and starsan exclusively.

 

[Yooper]

Head and body come from mashing techniques, and ingredients.

I love to use flaked barley in my stouts, for a rich rocky head with lots of head retention. Body building ingredients like crystal malt (along with the flaked barley), and protein-rich wheat malt really help.

What kind of mashing temperature and mash pH did you have? And what kind of ingredients?

 

[kh54s10]

Head and body come from mashing techniques, and ingredients.

I love to use flaked barley in my stouts, for a rich rocky head with lots of head retention. Body building ingredients like crystal malt (along with the flaked barley), and protein-rich wheat malt really help.

What kind of mashing temperature and mash pH did you have? And what kind of ingredients?

This and 4-5 days fermentation and a few days conditioning. I would be worried that it didn't even finish fermentation, second that it is extremely young. I find my stouts are bland until they have aged a month or more.

 

[jmitchell3]

Rested st FG for 3 days. 5 days total ferment. Took 2 days to reach FG that was 7 pts high of estimated. Mash temp was high to start, just over 160. Dropped to 154 for 1.5 hours. Ferment had zero krausen which I thought odd. Lots of turbulence was evident but no foam. No foam is the chief issue with the legged beer. It carbonated just fine at 12 psi and 40F. It just has zero head. It fills and falls just like a Coke to flat black with almost zero lacing.

 

[jmitchell3]

Head and body come from mashing techniques, and ingredients.



I love to use flaked barley in my stouts, for a rich rocky head with lots of head retention. Body building ingredients like crystal malt (along with the flaked barley), and protein-rich wheat malt really help.



What kind of mashing temperature and mash pH did you have? And what kind of ingredients?

Zymurgy gold medal recipe from 2010. Mash temp was high to start (160+) cause I forgot to turn the burner off during dough in. Stirred to bring it down within 10 mins to 154. Added some additional bsg enzyme in case I had inadvertently denatured enzymes.

 

[Yooper]

Zymurgy gold medal recipe from 2010. Mash temp was high to start (160+) cause I forgot to turn the burner off during dough in. Stirred to bring it down within 10 mins to 154. Added some additional bsg enzyme in case I had inadvertently denatured enzymes.

Hmmmm, I wonder if the added enzyme worked to further debranch the amylopectins than would be desirable. I'm not sure which enzyme you used, but you'd lose the body and head in the finished beer, if my guess is correct.

Which enzyme did you choose? One that degrades the amylopectins would do exactly what you are saying happened to the beer.

 

[RM-MN]

Rested st FG for 3 days. 5 days total ferment. Took 2 days to reach FG that was 7 pts high of estimated. Mash temp was high to start, just over 160. Dropped to 154 for 1.5 hours. Ferment had zero krausen which I thought odd. Lots of turbulence was evident but no foam. No foam is the chief issue with the legged beer. It carbonated just fine at 12 psi and 40F. It just has zero head. It fills and falls just like a Coke to flat black with almost zero lacing.

I'd say you have three choices with this beer, First is to let it set at room temp for 3 to 6 months to give it the time it needs to mature since you rushed to keg it and didn't give it enough time in the fermenter. Second is to drink it as is and not worry about it. Third is to dump it and start over, this time not rushing to get the beer into the keg.

Stouts don't get good overnight. Mine sit in bottles at room temp for 3 to 6 months to mature before I drink them. Before that they seem to lack body and the flavors are more harsh.

 

[jmitchell3]

Hmmmm, I wonder if the added enzyme worked to further debranch the amylopectins than would be desirable. I'm not sure which enzyme you used, but you'd lose the body and head in the finished beer, if my guess is correct.

Which enzyme did you choose? One that degrades the amylopectins would do exactly what you are saying happened to the beer.

Ha! That sounds like a promising culprit. Used bsg amylase blend...

 

[MagicMatt]

Rested st FG for 3 days. 5 days total ferment. Took 2 days to reach FG that was 7 pts high of estimated. Mash temp was high to start, just over 160. Dropped to 154 for 1.5 hours. Ferment had zero krausen which I thought odd. Lots of turbulence was evident but no foam. No foam is the chief issue with the legged beer. It carbonated just fine at 12 psi and 40F. It just has zero head. It fills and falls just like a Coke to flat black with almost zero lacing.

12psi at 40°F for just a couple of days is not going to get you close to carbed properly. At that temp and pressure, you'd need closer to 2 weeks (10-14 days) to reach a full 2.5 vols that you were aiming for.

When I "set and forget" carb my kegs, I do it at 34°F and it still takes 10 days before I get good head retention. Seems like you only carbed for 3 days - give it time, it'll come around.