Stout Stainless Counterflow Chiller

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Wizard_of_Frobozz

Wizard_of_Frobozz

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I've been researching stainless steel counterflow chillers, and just found this one by Stout Tanks and Kettles:

https://conical-fermenter.com/wc30x1/2-ss-tc-670_stainless-steel-wort-chiller.html

It looks to have a lot more surface area than the KegCo one, which is the only other fully stainless CFC I've been able to find. Comes with Tri-Clamp fittings too, which is a bit overkill but, hey, so is a fully stainless chiller! Price seems competitive with the high end of other chillers.

Anyone have any info on this product? It's not available till June 12th, so I'm guessing it's a new product.

By the way, I know stainless is less efficient than copper for heat transfer but I don't care. The thinner wall of a stainless tube makes the difference fairly negligible. Surface area is by far the biggest factor in a heat exchanger, and this one looks to have more than the typical copper CFC.
 
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I've been eying a few stainless CFCs on aliexpress. None of them have this particular combo of fittings, which oddly enough is exactly what I was hoping to find. Ended up contacting a bunch. and have one place that I'm still waiting to hear from, the rest said they wouldn't change their layout.

If I don't hear back soon I might just drop the deposit for this one. TC for wort, 1/2" NPT for water...exactly what I was asking for. And I'm in agreement: this might be overkill, but if you're going to buy a CFC, you might as well get one that makes you smile. And the price is in the same range as a copper chiller or one without TC fittings.
 
I would totally of bought that stout one if I knew about it instead of the $165 one I recently bought off aliexpress. The one I bought is a lot like the kegCo one except it has 1/2 npt fittings on all ports. I like it a lot but feel it needs more surface area. I haven't tried it by itself but I use it with a more beer cfc I bought 2 years ago, its almost identical but copper. I wasn't happy with my chill times with one but now I can run both chillers with my chugger pump about 3/4 open and it cools to 65ish deg. The KegCo one is nice but for $20 for doubling the size seams like a no brainier to me. I like my 1/2 npt fittings on all ports for cam locks so that would be the only down side for me.
 
Exchillerator has an option for tri-clover fittings, and made in the U.S.. The Stout seems to be larger ID and longer overall.

Todd
 
I like the Exchillerator but I don’t see any option for a stainless steel tube. All the versions have a copper tube for the wort. This one from Stout seems to be the only stainless one of decent size on the market.
 
where did I miss the big LODO thread? it seems to be the hottest thing for homebrewing trends right now and just seemed to pop up overnight.. Ive never been a fan of copper in my brewery to begin with but I think we will see a whole string of new stainless lodo stuff hitting the market in the coming months.
 
augiedoggy said:
where did I miss the big LODO thread? it seems to be the hottest thing for homebrewing trends right now and just seemed to pop up overnight.. Ive never been a fan of copper in my brewery to begin with but I think we will see a whole string of new stainless lodo stuff hitting the market in the coming months.
Click to expand...

I agree that the LODO trend is why this is hitting the market - Stout specifically calls that out in their description of the chiller. I don't want this thread to turn into a big LODO debate, but I think you are right about seeing products that will supply the demand for LODO friendly products.

For me, LODO is a consideration, but I want stainless steel because it is a much more durable metal compared to copper. I have very acidic water, which tends to shorten the life of copper pretty quickly.
 
Wizard_of_Frobozz said:
I agree that the LODO trend is why this is hitting the market - Stout specifically calls that out in their description of the chiller. I don't want this thread to turn into a big LODO debate, but I think you are right about seeing products that will supply the demand for LODO friendly products.

For me, LODO is a consideration, but I want stainless steel because it is a much more durable metal compared to copper. I have very acidic water, which tends to shorten the life of copper pretty quickly.
Click to expand...
Oh Ive got no intention of debating it.. for all I know it could have a huge effect on things.. just seems like the new england ipas at all the breweries around me to be the hottest thing right now so i was curious if there was a revelation thread or something that made it so popular with homer brewing..

When I was in Belgium a couple years ago and toured a small brewery there the head brewer was also a microbiologist or some related field and he stated they were going to be replacing all the copper in their brewery including the copper kettles as soon as they could to improve the beers..
 
Well adding that to my list. I have a stainless counterflow like the kegco. I love how easy it is to clean and sanitize but for my 20 gallon batches it just doesn't quite chill enough. I would love to try out the stout tanks one and compare.
 
I have both a stainless and copper convulated chiller, only use stainless one now. Would love some more efficiency. Guess time to upgrade again.

Thoughts on mounting this 30lb beast?
 
milldoggy said:
I have both a stainless and copper convulated chiller, only use stainless one now. Would love some more efficiency. Guess time to upgrade again.

Thoughts on mounting this 30lb beast?
Click to expand...

What type of stainless chiller do you currently have? I remember an old thread of yours about using a pool heat exchanger, but I thought I read that you got rid of that.

As far as mounting, it's hard to tell without having one (yet...), but I would think sitting it on a stand and strapping it down would work best. It might work to hang it by straps as well, but I would be want to make sure to hang it around the entire chiller, and not just the top loops since it weighs a lot. Stainless is pretty strong, however, so it might work.
 
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Wizard_of_Frobozz said:
What type of stainless chiller do you currently have? I remember an old thread of yours about using a pool heat exchanger, but I thought I read that you got rid of that.

As far as mounting, it's hard to tell without having one (yet...), but I would think sitting it on a stand and strapping it down would work best. It might work to hang it by straps as well, but I would be want to make sure to hang it around the entire chiller, and not just the top loops since it weighs a lot. Stainless is pretty strong, however, so it might work.
Click to expand...
Still have the Shell and tube, sitting on a shelf with my copper chillzilla. I have a stainless one that Williams sold a few years back. I debated running both the Shell and tube with my CFC, but I like simple. Rather have one efficient unit.
 
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I am going to pre order one of these soon for my birthday (June). I currently use a 20 plate chiller but want to get rid of the copper from my system and also want to be able to set my pellet hops free. I have been looking at chillers and was thinking about the Kegco one until I saw this, so thank you very much for posting it.
 
JDXX1971 said:
I am going to pre order one of these soon for my birthday (June). I currently use a 20 plate chiller but want to get rid of the copper from my system and also want to be able to set my pellet hops free. I have been looking at chillers and was thinking about the Kegco one until I saw this, so thank you very much for posting it.
Click to expand...

No problem! I'm laying the full court press down for Father's Day with the family right now, so I'll post pictures if/when I get one.

I really hope Stout does well with this one; the Kegco one was really the only stainless counterflow option on the market before this came out, but it isn't enough surface area to be effective. If I'm going to drop $200 for something, I want it to be worth it. If it sells well, other manufacturers will take notice and start putting new stuff out.

I'd really like it if Exchillerator were available with a stainless tube; I like the design of those with the plastic wire wrap on the outer surface of the tube and using PEX for the outer tube should keep the cost lower. I don't know if I'll wait though - the Stout one looks way too sweet and is basically the same price as a copper Exchillerator Maxx but has a longer and wider wort tube (31ft & 12mm diameter vs. 25ft & 3/8" diameter).
 
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I got one from the last batch. Haven't used it yet but last night I was playing around with the plumbing. Here's a pic:

stout_chiller.jpg
 
Nice! I didn’t know there was a last batch - I had assumed it was a brand new product.

How’s the construction seem? Fully welded joints or soldered? Any issues or feedback about it?
 
There have been a couple of batches already, that I know of. They went pretty quickly.

The joints are welded and seem like good quality although I wouldn't really know. The outside tube has been spliced together at one point which could be regarded as an imperfection.

I'll upload some photos of the joints and will post an update when I test the thing out.
 
Did a test:

- 8 Gallons in a 10 gallon kettle
- Starting with boiling water
- Tap water was 46 f
- Water was pumped from the BK through the chiller and returned into the bottom of the BK creating a whirlpool.

Results:

- 140 f in 4 minutes
- 88 f after 10 minutes
- 57 f after 20 minutes

Here's a graph of the kettle temperature over time:


chart.jpeg

Also, attached are some photos of the welded joints.

IMG_1769.JPG IMG_1770.JPG IMG_1768.JPG
 
This is great! Thanks for posting all this.

The performance seems good although I can only compare it to my immersion chiller, which takes a lot longer than that.

The welds look good too. This really helps me decide that it’s worth the money!
 
Broke down and put a deposit on one after my last brew day.. wasnt able to chill below 100* with my small counterflow so I'm hoping the added length will work better for me.. worth a shot.. unfortunately they told me expected ship date is now july 26th..
 
vtipsy said:
I got one from the last batch. Haven't used it yet but last night I was playing around with the plumbing. Here's a pic:

View attachment 566783
Click to expand...
COuld you explain your plumbing more? It looks like you have your pump on the outlet of the chiller as opposed to the hot side. WHat is the red cannister for on the inlet. WHy do you have so many valves on for wort
vtipsy said:
I got one from the last batch. Haven't used it yet but last night I was playing around with the plumbing. Here's a pic:

View attachment 566783
Click to expand...
THis seemd like the chiller for me. Can you explain your plumbing? Why are there so many ball valves? Why is the pump on the outlet side? What is the red cannister on the inlet side. My CF chiller has one valve on the outlet. What OD is the stainless tubing that the wort runs through. THanks.
 
jdpils said:
THis seemd like the chiller for me. Can you explain your plumbing? Why are there so many ball valves? Why is the pump on the outlet side? What is the red cannister on the inlet side. My CF chiller has one valve on the outlet. What OD is the stainless tubing that the wort runs through. THanks.
Click to expand...

There are two pumps, one at the wort inlet and another at the wort outlet. When both pumps are running there is only a small pressure drop through the pipes and tubing which allows for a strong whirlpool and to CIP. For a reduced flow, just the first pump is run.

I set this up as a wort chiller but also as a counter flow HERMS (C-HERMS). During the mash wort is recirculated from the mash tun and through the chiller. Hot water is pumped along the other pathway to control wort temperature.

There are two ball valves at the inlet, one from the mash tun and one from the boil kettle. Similarly, there are returns to to both the MT and BK. There is a valve at the lowest point for drainage, taking samples and priming the pumps. Finally, there is another 3-way valve on the outlet so that wort can be transferred from the MT to the BK while hot water is pumped into the MT return route (fly sparging).
 
vtipsy said:
There are two pumps, one at the wort inlet and another at the wort outlet. When both pumps are running there is only a small pressure drop through the pipes and tubing which allows for a strong whirlpool and to CIP. For a reduced flow, just the first pump is run.

I set this up as a wort chiller but also as a counter flow HERMS (C-HERMS). During the mash wort is recirculated from the mash tun and through the chiller. Hot water is pumped along the other pathway to control wort temperature.

There are two ball valves at the inlet, one from the mash tun and one from the boil kettle. Similarly, there are returns to to both the MT and BK. There is a valve at the lowest point for drainage, taking samples and priming the pumps. Finally, there is another 3-way valve on the outlet so that wort can be transferred from the MT to the BK while hot water is pumped into the MT return route (fly sparging).
Click to expand...
Wow that is complex.. seems like circulating the hot water for herms would be very inefficient.. a lot of heat loss recirculating and the stainless will retain the heat so when you switch to chill you have to cool the chiller before it can cool the wort.. just my thoughts.. although I guess it's no different than circulating boiling water through the chiller to sanitize prior to the chill.. props on a neat double use concept though! Helps to justify the cost.
What size batches do you brew? I would like to get a stronger whirlpool with my pump, I'm using the same type pump you are and was thinking about upgrading to a larger pump but hadn't thought about 2 inline..
 
Like you say, circulating boiling water heats up the chiller anyway. I'm also not that worried about optimizing power usage for 4 - 8 gallon batches ;). My HLT is a corny keg so perhaps I gain some heat retention vs a full sized kettle when you consider the surface areas.
 
Woo my shipment came in early so mine arrived today! Cant wait to give it a try. I will report back how well it works on my 20 gallon batches with 70* groundwater..
 
Well I finally got a chance to do my first trial run with the chiller today with water. All I can say is WOW!. Absolutely amazing the difference between this one and my old stainless kegco counterflow. I tested with only 15 gallons of water which is about 8 gallons less than a normal brew for me. My ground water is right at 75* right now, I started off with the water boiling, started circulating it to whirlpool (which did not go well with my single pump and so much tubing, I might have to try dual pumps like vtipsy.) Within 30 seconds of circulating I turned on my chill water, in literally under a minute the water in the kettle was at 180* and the output from the chiller was 74* close enough that I would transfer straight to the fermenter at this point.. Unbelievable how well it worked I am very pleased.
20180728_232257.jpeg
 
Anyone interested in buying one of these? I have one that I've used for 6 months and recently switched to a plate chiller. My tap water is nowhere near cold enough to use this thing effectively.
 
vtipsy said:
Did a test:

- 8 Gallons in a 10 gallon kettle
- Starting with boiling water
- Tap water was 46 f
- Water was pumped from the BK through the chiller and returned into the bottom of the BK creating a whirlpool.

Results:

- 140 f in 4 minutes
- 88 f after 10 minutes
- 57 f after 20 minutes

Here's a graph of the kettle temperature over time:


View attachment 566932
Also, attached are some photos of the welded joints.

View attachment 566929 View attachment 566930 View attachment 566931
Click to expand...
So I received my stout chiller and have been impressed with the construction. My goals were first to speed my chilling process up as my old chiller was taking longer than I wanted, second switch to all stainless. I did not like the idea of a plate chiller as I boil whole hops loose and whirlpool through my chiller. Since 1998, over 300 batches, I have used a Heart's Homebrew CFC, which is 16 feet of 1/2 straight copper inside 1 inch cold rolled steel. Overall I highly recommend this chiller for up to 15 gallons Prior to upgrading from a 15 gallon keggle to a 20 gallon kettle, I estimated my chilling took 25 - 30 minutes for 11 - 12 gallons via gravity and I generally reached 10 to 12 F over the water temp. I never paid much mind to it frankly as it worked well.

With the larger wort volume I have found the Heart's chiller alone to take more than 30 minutes. With an added immersion chiller it worked OK for my first few batches but want a faster process that was less complex. Hopefully today I will repeat your test today with both my old and new chiller. However, here are the results I have so far. I connected the stout chiller in series with my old chiller and a dial thermometer at the outlet of each. So the boiled water from my kettle passes through the Stout chiller first then the Heart chiller. Chill water was 68F. At 2 gallons per minute which is fully open on my March 13gpm pump the Temps were 116F out of the Stout (stainless) and 86 after the Heart's (copper). At 1 gallon per minute (My goal for 17.5 gallons of wort is .75 gallons per minute min), the temps were 96F and 78 F. So at this flow rate it appears I need both chillers. Next I ran boiling water through each separately at my old flow rate of .5 gallons per minute and the temperatures were 80F and 84F for the Stout and Heart's chillers respectively. I would make the comment that my wort appears 4F cooler than the dial thermometer and have noticed this on several batches. While my digital probe thermometer correlates well with the bi metals at mash and boiling temps, I wonder if it's response time is too slow or affected by the ambient some?

So right now I can conclude the Stout chiller has given me a 4 degree delta over the Heart's chiller. For me it seems there is no reason not to keep both connected if it speeds the process and with an ice bath get even cooler I plan to run your test above but with 15 gallons of water for both chillers and experiment. I also plan to test recirculating an ice bath through the Heart's chiller as well as an immersion chiller. More to follow. Cheers!
 
Drumminguy81 said:
Well I finally got a chance to do my first trial run with the chiller today with water. All I can say is WOW!. Absolutely amazing the difference between this one and my old stainless kegco counterflow. I tested with only 15 gallons of water which is about 8 gallons less than a normal brew for me. My ground water is right at 75* right now, I started off with the water boiling, started circulating it to whirlpool (which did not go well with my single pump and so much tubing, I might have to try dual pumps like vtipsy.) Within 30 seconds of circulating I turned on my chill water, in literally under a minute the water in the kettle was at 180* and the output from the chiller was 74* close enough that I would transfer straight to the fermenter at this point.. Unbelievable how well it worked I am very pleased. View attachment 581295
Click to expand...

What are your flow rates of the wort and chilling water to achieve this?
 
Schreiner said:
What are your flow rates of the wort and chilling water to achieve this?
Click to expand...
First off I misspoke. My ground water is closer to 65* not 75. I am unsure what my flow rates are, the water is on full blast and wort flow reduced to about 3/4 open ball valve.. maybe next brew I can do some flow rate timing and let you know..
 
Drumminguy81 said:
First off I misspoke. My ground water is closer to 65* not 75. I am unsure what my flow rates are, the water is on full blast and wort flow reduced to about 3/4 open ball valve.. maybe next brew I can do some flow rate timing and let you know..
Click to expand...
It would be great if you did! When are you brewing next?:)
 
Stout chiller looks great! I have a cheap stainless counterflow hooked up to my 1/2bbl setup and haven’t looked back either. Cools at about 8-10 degrees per minute. Agree counterflow is the way to go especially with hops in the line. Love that the stout whirlpools in. That’s a really nice feature.
DSC_0001.JPG
 
Schreiner said:
It would be great if you did! When are you brewing next?:)
Click to expand...
Hopefully in the next couple weeks. I will let you know. Unfortunately I just brewed a couple days ago and didnt think to check. I also went a different route, I just ran the chiller while whirlpooling until the wort was almost to pitching temp and then shut off to let settle before transferring. I did also added a second pump at the outlet of the stout chiller and replaced the inlet pump with a chugger for a little more flow. I now get a better whirlpool but not sure I like 2 pumps to do so. Looking into a chugger max to hopefully achieve the flow with only 1 pump..
 
anyone using the Stout SS counterflow - how have your results been further into your use?

Also how is everyone mounting theirs?
 

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