Stout Recipe. Could do with some help ...

[Wincky]

Hello friends!

Trying to come up with a sweet stout recipe without using lactose and I'm worried about using too much speciality malts and ruining the taste. I've got some percentages down and I'm hoping someone may be able to point me in the right direction please!

anyway, here we go

Marris Otter 34.8%
Munich Malt 34.8%
Crystal Malt 8.7%
Chocolate Malt 8.7%
Roasted Barley 2.4%
Black Malt 5.3%
Flaked Oats 5.3%

I was thinking of using Wakatu hops because it says it has a Vanilla taste to it. Anyone know if that would be a good idea?
Cheers!

 

[ericbw]

If you want vanilla, I would use vanilla. The hops in a stout should be all early boil additions, so you might not get the flavor from them anyway.

Your malt bill is pretty complex. I always try to understand the reason for anything in the recipe.

Why the Munich? Stout is English/Irish, so maybe eliminate the Munich and go with all Maris Otter.

What level of Crystal are you planning to use?

I think you might get a lot of the burnt or acrid flavor from that much black malt. You could get away with just one of the dark ones (roast barley, black, or chocolate) and be fine. For a sweeter stout, I would cut the black malt at least some.

 

[meridianomrebel]

For vanilla, I'd split a couple vanilla beans in half and toss them right into the fermenter (in secondary) and let it sit a couple weeks. I've done that before and it has turned out really good.

 

[Sailingeric]

This is a stout I have on tap, most of my base malt is Pale malt.
0.75 lb United Kingdom - Black Patent 3.4%
1 lb United Kingdom - Coffee Malt 4.5%
0.5 lb Flaked Oats 2.2%
1 lb American - Black Barley 4.5%
17 lb American - Pale Ale 76.4%
1 lb Belgian - Special B 4.5%
1 lb United Kingdom - Chocolate 4.5%

Mine is a bit more chocolate but could dial back the chocolate malt and throw some vanilla once it is done fermenting. Also it is more of an RIS, you could dial back the recipe to meet your ABV goal

 

[ericbw]

This is a stout I have on tap, most of my base malt is Pale malt.
0.75 lbUnited Kingdom - Black Patent 3.4%
1 lbUnited Kingdom - Coffee Malt 4.5%
0.5 lbFlaked Oats 2.2%
1 lbAmerican - Black Barley 4.5%
17 lbAmerican - Pale Ale 76.4%
1 lbBelgian - Special B 4.5%
1 lbUnited Kingdom - Chocolate 4.5%

Mine is a bit more chocolate but could dial back the chocolate malt and throw some vanilla once it is done fermenting. Also it is more of an RIS, you could dial back the recipe to meet your ABV goal

Can anyone suggest one more dark malt for this recipe? I don't think there's enough. Joking!

 

[kh54s10]

I tend to keep the number of different malts under control. I feel that too many different malts give a muddled flavor. Pale beers get 2-5 malts and dark beers get 3-6 malts.

A recent stout I did for a friend (I kept a few for myself):

7.75 lb Maris Otter
1 lb flaked oats
.5 Chocolate Malt
.5 Crystal Dark 77L
.5 Roasted Barley

2 oz Glacier 60 min

Nottingham rehydrated

6 lbs blueberry in secondary and some extract to taste at bottling.

Very good!

 

[Wincky]

Cheers for the help guys!
So with the Munich malt, I heard it gives a bit more protein than the Marris Otter which is why I went for that (I'll be mashing at a slightly higher temperature as well for protein). But if it's not going to do a lot then I'd happily omit that one.

So would I be better looking at something more like

Marris Otter 70%
Crystal Malt 8.7%
Chocolate Malt 8.7%
Roasted Barley 2.5%
Black Malt 2.5%
Flaked Oats 7.6%

My main aim with it is to make a sweet stout and follow the reinheitsgebot law, so is there a minimum % I'd need to give it the sweetness I want? I was thinking between 5 and 6 % anyway.
I know the hop profile isn't supposed to be that bold so when I was looking at hops I saw the Wakatu and how it said vanilla and thought that would be nice, but that was more of a quick thought, but if anyone has any that would work better then I'm all ears!
Cheers again for the help!

 

[Wincky]

Also I forgot to say the crystal malt is called crystal 150, I don't know what the American version of it is unfortunately!

 

[Kent88]

I've tried brewing some sweet stouts. Not sure what I'd do to compensate leaving out lactose.

I've used Malting Company of Ireland Stout Malt a few times and I like it. I can't really point to any reason besides that it did a good job for me in those stouts.

Debittered black malt also worked out well for me. I like that you're using Oats, even if it isn't very reinheitsgebot.

There is an English Ale strain that Wyeast makes that doesn't attenuate as well as others. Not that it gets stuck, it just leaves some residual sweetness.

Mash in the higher 150F range.

Crystal 150? Would that be like Special B?

 

[ericbw]

I think that's a better grain bill - simpler. I think you'll get sweetness from the crystal. I would assume the crystal at that level would also have some fruity flavors like raisins or something?

Where are you located?

 

[Wincky]

I'm from Norwich, in England.
I think the Crystal 150 is a light crystal malt. I may go medium or dark with this one. There's an international malt company not far from where I live with some info on it if that helps to work out which one is which!

http://crispmalt.co/crystallised-malt

 

[kh54s10]

Crystal malts that I see online are many. There are some listed as light, medium or dark. Other maltsters list them by their Lovibond level, such as C-10L, C-20L, C-40L, C-60L, C-80L, etc. Others list them as Caramel 20, Caramel 40 etc.

There are some differences in the flavors of each. I use them mostly for color so I select a Lovibond level that gives the color contribution I want.

 

[ericbw]

I thought 150 referred to the lovibond (color). But I see Crisp calls it light. Dark is 400, again not sure if that's Lovibond or something else. But the PDF in that link says 150 provides golden hue. I think I would use that one.

To be honest, I think when I used crystal in a stout, it was 80. But the great thing about stout is that you don't have to worry about it being too dark - it's black! And you'll get the color from your other malts (RB and black malt).

 

[Redlantern]

I have pondered this as well. (knowing a few lactose intolerant folks). Have not done it and and really curious.

I was thinking mash at 156, add (believe it or not) 20L as it is sweeter (less caramelly), and then complimenting that with a bit of flaked oat (but not enough to noticeably cloud it up). That would add sweetness and body, but whether or not it would be the right kind of sweet is another question entirely...

 

[DemonsRun]

I thought 150 referred to the lovibond (color). But I see Crisp calls it light. Dark is 400, again not sure if that's Lovibond or something else.

From Crisp Malting group
Light Crystal (Crystal 150) = 60-70°L
Medium Crystal (Crystal 240) = 95-110°L
Dark Crystal(Crystal 400) = 155-185°L

 

[ericbw]

I didn't see that on the site. Now it all makes sense!