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Stop using Irish Moss!!!

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Evidence does exist, ex vivo by the way, that Irish Moss's active clearing chemical, carrageenan, causes increased inflammation in the human colon and there are hypotheses that common food additives are responsible for the increases in prevalence of Crohns and other lower GI disturbances in the western population.

Its a stretch to say that it is the prime cause of upper GI ulcers because there is no evidence that Im aware of that carrageenan cause them(pubmed has no search results for "carrageenan+ulcer")

I was going to say the same thing, I only found one thing on pubmed was regarding potential cytotoxicity . . . and considering the sources of the allegations, EU committees, WHO, all of the usual blowhards, it is just another thing to ignore. When the FDA gets involved, then it is really time to ignore.
 
Being a regular consumer of beer brewed with Whirlfloc, I wouldn't discard the issue out of hand, but the information that is really needed to make an educated decision about this are:

1.) To what degree the carageenan gets converted to poligeenan during the boil
2.) How much of the carageenan and poligeenan actually make it into the final beer
3.) Whether there is a threshold effect, below which no negative impacts occur
4.) Whether that threshold is exceeded when carageenan is used per standard brewing practices

Without that information, it's all guesswork.
 
"Lambda carrageenan is used in animal models of inflammation used to test analgesics, because dilute carrageenan solution (1–2%) injected subcutaneously causes swelling and pain."

Clearly, a Hollywood lawsuit based on wikipedia knowledge, not to discredit wikipedia, but is that the only research the lawyer did? Still, he could be using only what he thinks convenient for the lawsuit, not very bright though.


Anyway, I'm not gonna' let TMZ tell me how to brew xD
 
It settles out, I'm sure. Just like many things we put in our beer. Hell, fermcap is made of silicon. That's the same stuff that fake breasts are made from. Would you want THAT in your mouth? Oh wait....

Actually, fermcap and implants are made of silicone. Silicon is what beer bottles, microchips, and beaches are made of. :mug:
 
No Way! I think if there is any truth to this I think you would have to be consuming mass amounts of it. Plus we are boiling one table spoon in 5 gallons.
 
BTW: Silicon is used in making semiconductor devices, and is a common and naturally occurring element on the periodic table.

Silicone is a plastic used in caulk and (older) breast implants...

Sorry, not attacking, just a pet peeve from an engineer. I suppose being an engineer is much more offensive than those hard "silicon" breast implants ;)
 
i was given some irish moss with my brewing equipment... guess I wont be using it after reading all this back and fourth.. I'm all set with taking a chance with it, hello trash can.
 
OK seriously, TMZ crap aside - has anyone else noticed that LHBS 'Irish Moss' tastes like ass? [I know it's heavily diluted by the wert, but work with me here]

Most Irish Moss is a random assortment of haphazardly harvested kelp - Chondrus crispus being the vast majority of the chopped/blended mixture of seaside curiosities but also containing bits of snail shells and sometimes sand or other unidentified dead bits. Ew!:drunk:

Just wondering if anyone has actually tasted their Irish Moss, whirlfloc or sea-nasty by itself? Kinda like picking up a handful of something that has washed up on the beach and tossing it into your beautiful yummy homebrew!

I'm thinking that the Asian market is a wonderful place to start exploring other dried Kelp products which might be used as a source of carrageenan. Why not choose another species of kelp (they all contain carrageenan to some extent)...? *hint hint* There's some kelp species out there with Umami out the ears (glutamate). With all the HBT discussions on the quality of fresh ingredients, this sticks out in my mind.

x'cuse me while I pick the barnacles off my carboy...


- Mike
 
Umami in beer? Not sure about that one... I'll use other means to get a nice solid mouthfeel.
 
Umami can be described as savoriness or 'that something special' in certain foods - a very different thing from mouth feel as a whole. Most beer features umami as a flavor component to some degree, some more than others...

Read up on glutamatic acid - sorta like LSD for your taste buds. And no, it's not quite the same as Monosodium glutamate. There's no Chinese Food Syndrome from my brews.


- Mike

"Better living though chemistry"
 
I don't like clear beer personally, so I have not ever added irish moss.
 
The major issue for us, as discussed before, was whether the amount used in our beer risks any health effects. I have a hard time believing it is dangerous -- especially in the volumes used in beer -- but I would be open to seeing legitimate medical studies suggest otherwise.

The lawyer has to file the initial claim by including any possible known reason to go after the product. Even flimsy evidence can be sufficient to at least move into discovery, at which time medical expertise will become involved and real evidence starts to be explored. I would assume the lawyer looked at the known side effects for the ingredients as reported by the FDA. The FDA reports pretty much anything they are notified to. If a handful of people developed ulcers from consuming irish moss, it will get listed as a side effect.
 
Umami can be described as savoriness or 'that something special' in certain foods - a very different thing from mouth feel as a whole. Most beer features umami as a flavor component to some degree, some more than others...

Read up on glutamatic acid - sorta like LSD for your taste buds. And no, it's not quite the same as Monosodium glutamate. There's no Chinese Food Syndrome from my brews.


- Mike

"Better living though chemistry"

I stand corrected.
 
Read up on glutamatic acid - sorta like LSD for your taste buds. And no, it's not quite the same as Monosodium glutamate. There's no Chinese Food Syndrome from my brews.


- Mike

"Better living though chemistry"

MSG does not contribute to the "Chinese Food Syndrome;" the problem is histamines found in soy sauce. MSG is merely the mono-salt of glumatic acid and 1 mol NaOH. MSG is a source of the amino acid glutamate, but we get tons of glutamate from other sources. You are right about our taste buds and glutamate . . . basically glutamate is a chemical signal to our brain that "protein is abundant in this food." Nucleotides such as disodium guanylate and disodium inosinate are signals to our brain that " this food comes from paraxial mesoderm" aka muscle tissue. We love foods that have these compounds. The end result is the same sort of deal as with MSG, lots of amino acid glutamate, which is no big deal. MSG has a bad rap because you can make money with "organic" and "chemical free" food, which usually is less healthy, less tasty, less developed, more rotten, or at least some combination of the four.


The lawyer has to file the initial claim by including any possible known reason to go after the product. Even flimsy evidence can be sufficient to at least move into discovery, at which time medical expertise will become involved and real evidence starts to be explored. I would assume the lawyer looked at the known side effects for the ingredients as reported by the FDA. The FDA reports pretty much anything they are notified to. If a handful of people developed ulcers from consuming irish moss, it will get listed as a side effect.

Well, it is actually a lower threshold than that. All he has to do is state the court's subject matter jurisdiction, personal jurisdiction, give notice of the claims, how the plaintiff is entitled to relief, and damages, which is a low standard because we have notice pleading, not fact pleading. The court will not "go after the product," and as you correctly surmised, it is the FDA's power to investigate and approve food, drugs, food additives, and pretty much anything else it wants to. The FDA . . . is perhaps the most corrupt, inept, blatantly abusive, blatantly lethargic, schizophrenic agency. You can thank the SCOTUS for allowing such unconstitutional delegations of legislative power to bureaucracies like the FDA.

The attorney does not need to look at the known side effects for the complaint. Evidence might be an issue after the defendant has received the complaint and gives a call to the plaintiff and says "this is BS" or "there is no evidence, so what is your thought process" or "how much $ should we start with?" Then discovery, then pretrial conference, then trial, where expert witnesses (no need for an MD) can really do the damage.


No Way! I think if there is any truth to this I think you would have to be consuming mass amounts of it. Plus we are boiling one table spoon in 5 gallons.

This is highly rational. If only people understood this is how toxicity works. Some people are initially disposed to toxicity from low doses of compounds "allergies."
 
Wow, 5 pages in two days over this ridiculous claim.... we all have to remember that even if we are using it, it binds to the proteins in solution and drags them down to the bottom - which is where they stay when you rack.

None of us are actually eating or drinking the irish moss. Plus we use so little that this is of no concern. I would also like to add that I'm pretty sure it's a bogus lawsuit to begin with.... it's still going in my next brew!
 
This sounds like something to keep an eye on, but not to freak out about. Add it to the list of substances with possible health effects, along with ethanol(!), fusels, phenols, DMS, etc. Personally, I'm more concerned about the hazards to my health due to the consumption of hydrogenated fats, pesticides, herbicides, and everything that could show up on a label as "modified" food starch.

Also, speaking as a former aircraft anti-ice system engineer, I have no idea how they can claim a link between the chemicals. TKS fluid is composed of glycol, isopropanol, and water. There are only a couple of manufacturers and few variations. It's possible that there are some undisclosed additives in very small quantities to enhance its wetting characteristics and inhibit corrosion, however.
 
Umami in beer? Not sure about that one... I'll use other means to get a nice solid mouthfeel.

Best path to getting some umami in your beer is let it sit on yeast too long :p make your own "autolyzed yeast extract" :eek:
 
Who? I gotta get a TV. It sounds important. With one word names, maybe Britney and Lindsay are famous? If they are that famous, please let me know so I can buy a TV asap.

Never heard of them, either. Must not be famous enough to justify buying a television.

I'm gonna stick with my old Philips AM upright console tube radio. It even has shortwave bands, and there's a kit you can buy (or used to be able to) in order to convert it to watch TV on a round tube. I can still pull in the shortwave stations at night with it.

One of these days, I might just convert it over to receive TV.
 
+1,001. Almost all medications are poisons at higher concentrations.

Indeed. The dosage makes the poison.

------------
Paracelsus, sometimes called the father of toxicology, wrote:[9]

German: Alle Ding' sind Gift, und nichts ohn' Gift; allein die Dosis macht, daß ein Ding kein Gift ist.
"All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."

That is to say, substances considered toxic are harmless in small doses, and conversely an ordinarily harmless substance can be deadly if over-consumed. Even water can be deadly if over-consumed.[10]
------------
 
If your going to use Moss

PLEASE use

RANDY MOSS

randy-moss.jpg




 
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Well, it just might be used as a thickener, in wing de-icing formulas... HOWEVER, the active ingredient in wing de-icer/anti-icing fluid is... propylene glycol, which the FDA says is "relatively safe." Not about to go chugging antifreeze, just to find out.

Toxicity, of propylene glycol (not a beer ingredient) is reached at about 1gram/liter of blood plasma... That's drinking a butt-load of antifreeze, or eating a vast quantity of ice-cream... Bring-on the world-class guzzlers and eaters and see if they can reach that level, on beer!

Edit: Elsewhere, in the news, beer and aviation came together for a hilarious news story...http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100810/ap_on_bi_ge/us_flight_attendant_arrest
 
Like I said there is more in ice cream than our beer! most of ours drops out... AND it's just seaweed! seaweed salad at the sushi bar!.... tastes great... less filling!
 

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