Stone Thunderstruck IPA

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
DapperD

DapperD

Active Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2014
Messages
31
Reaction score
2
I've been searching off and on for the last couple months since trying this for the first time. I have yet to find a clone recipe for it but would love to make this some day.

I'm guessing the obvious varaition to most other DIPA's are the hops.

Any thoughts?
 
Have you tried emailing to Mitch Steele? He seems pretty forthcoming. I would think if you put together a recipe and then emailed it to him he might be offer you a critique? Worth a try. In any event, there are some pretty good hints here (from Mitch's tasting notes farther down, the new hop varieties are used for dry hopping):

http://www.stonebrewing.com/beer/stone-anniversary-ales/stone-19th-anniversary-thunderstruck-ipa

I really liked the beer when it was fresh, looking forward to what you come up with, please post up.:mug:
 
I think emailing him is a good idea too. Stone is very homebrewer friendly compared to most breweries. They posted the recipe for every one of their Vertical Epic series
 
This is what I got back after emailing Stone:

"Mash low temp, 148-149, add equal proportions of Vic's and Ella in the dry-hop, and go overboard. *If you get a 3 gallon yield on a 5 gallon ferment that should be about right."

My current attempt at a Thunderstruck clone came in way short on the OG (BeerSmith said it should be 1.076 but my reading was 1.055). I don't think I mashed it long enough. Mashing at 148 I probably should have gone at least 2 hours but I only gave it an hour. I'm going to try this again this weekend and see if I can get the OG a bit closer to what BeerSmith says. Oh, and my current attempt is:

9 Lbs Pale 2-row Malt
4 Lbs Crystal 20L
3 Lbs Crystal 60L
1 Lb Agave Nectar (boil 60 min)
1 Oz Topaz Hops (60 min)
1 Oz Southern Cross Hops (30 min)
1 Oz Ella Hops (10 Min)
1 Oz Galaxy Hops (10 min)
2 Oz Ella (dry hop 7 days)
2 Oz Southern Cross (dry hop 7 days
1 San Diego Super Strain (WLP090) yeast

I didn't have any of the Vic Secret hops that are listed on the bottle so I subbed Southern Cross for it. All these hops can be found on the Yakima Valley Hops website. I'm also not sure about the grain bill since I don't have access to the Fairview grains that Stone lists on the bottle, so all in all this recipe is just me winging it. But I'll let you know. I've been playing with Australian and New Zealand hops ever since I tasted Thunderstruck and I have to say I really love these hops. And the Agave Nectar is just something I've add to my last 2 batches. It doesn't seem to add any flavor when boiled for at least 30 to 40 minutes. It's like adding candi sugar only cheaper.
 
RichPetersen said:
This is what I got back after emailing Stone:

"Mash low temp, 148-149, add equal proportions of Vic's and Ella in the dry-hop, and go overboard. *If you get a 3 gallon yield on a 5 gallon ferment that should be about right."

My current attempt at a Thunderstruck clone came in way short on the OG (BeerSmith said it should be 1.076 but my reading was 1.055). I don't think I mashed it long enough. Mashing at 148 I probably should have gone at least 2 hours but I only gave it an hour. I'm going to try this again this weekend and see if I can get the OG a bit closer to what BeerSmith says. Oh, and my current attempt is:

9 Lbs Pale 2-row Malt
4 Lbs Crystal 20L
3 Lbs Crystal 60L
1 Lb Agave Nectar (boil 60 min)
1 Oz Topaz Hops (60 min)
1 Oz Southern Cross Hops (30 min)
1 Oz Ella Hops (10 Min)
1 Oz Galaxy Hops (10 min)
2 Oz Ella (dry hop 7 days)
2 Oz Southern Cross (dry hop 7 days
1 San Diego Super Strain (WLP090) yeast

I didn't have any of the Vic Secret hops that are listed on the bottle so I subbed Southern Cross for it. All these hops can be found on the Yakima Valley Hops website. I'm also not sure about the grain bill since I don't have access to the Fairview grains that Stone lists on the bottle, so all in all this recipe is just me winging it. But I'll let you know. I've been playing with Australian and New Zealand hops ever since I tasted Thunderstruck and I have to say I really love these hops. And the Agave Nectar is just something I've add to my last 2 batches. It doesn't seem to add any flavor when boiled for at least 30 to 40 minutes. It's like adding candi sugar only cheaper.
Click to expand...

7lbs of crystal malt in a 5 gallon batch? :eek: I don't usually use more than 1lb otherwise its way too sweet. Let us know how that turns out...
 
You got it. It's about ready to keg in about 4-6 days. And thanks for the input. As I said, I'm winging it. I've changed my next attempt to 11 Lbs 2-Row 3 Lbs 20 and 2 Lbs 60 and mashing at 148 for 90 minutes and then 156 for 40. We'll see.
 
JESUS! - Thats Waaaaaaay too much Crystal.
While I live in NZ and haven't had this beer, I have been to the brewery on a trip :)
Their beers tend to be very dry, and overly bitter, with massive hop aroma and flavour.
so huge amounts of dryhops.

For example google the Stone Ruination or Stone IPA - Minimal Crystal, no more than aroudn 1lb normally in a 5g batch.

The "gold" descriptor suggests pale malt and possibly a light colored crystal.
Although their Delicious IPA is Pale Malt Munich and Vienna - No Crystal.

Vis Secret and Ella are great hops, I'd go with 2oz of each in the dryhop.
Galaxy at flameout in conjunction with other aussie hops.

Oh and FYI Southern Cross is not an Aussie Hop - Its NZ (I should know)

Id go
1lb vienna
and 0.5lb crystal 20
make the balance up with Pale Malt
WLP007 is the closest to house yeast they do.

bitter with something neutral (magnum etc)
then a 30min addition and a hefty flameout
(Possibly 10 mins as well)
followed by a ridiculous sized dryhop for 3-5 days.
and you will be in the ball park.
 
Thanks to everyone for the advice. Wow, I had no idea about the crystal being that controversial. Like I said, just throwing things together to see what happens. And no Atom, I did not forget a decimal. And Crusader, thanks for the correction on the hop. I couldn't remember (didn't mean to offend).
 
RichPetersen said:
Thanks to everyone for the advice. Wow, I had no idea about the crystal being that controversial. Like I said, just throwing things together to see what happens. And no Atom, I did not forget a decimal. And Crusader, thanks for the correction on the hop. I couldn't remember (didn't mean to offend).
Click to expand...

Haha, no problem.
You'd be surprised how much it happens.

Someone once asked me if I have steasdy access to Galaxy.
The answer is no, I dont. lol.
Its actually surprisingly hard to get in NZ.
 
Funnily Enough I might actually play with some of these Aussie hops when I can get them.
something similar to ruination or Delicious IPa, with the Aussie Dryhop maybe?

Cheers for the inspiration :)
 
Well, first tasting today (during kegging). While not a true Thunderstruck taste it is quite good. As some had said it is a bit on the sweet side but bot overly sweet. And a good bitterness and hop aroma. Final gravity readings brings the ABV to 6.7 instead of 8 (what BeerSmith came up with) so not too butt-kicking. My next batch (this weekend) I will be reducing the Crystal by a couple of pounds and I'll mash for quite a bit longer and see what that brings. But very pleasing, just not as dry as I wanted.
 
RichPetersen said:
Well, first tasting today (during kegging). While not a true Thunderstruck taste it is quite good. As some had said it is a bit on the sweet side but bot overly sweet. And a good bitterness and hop aroma. Final gravity readings brings the ABV to 6.7 instead of 8 (what BeerSmith came up with) so not too butt-kicking. My next batch (this weekend) I will be reducing the Crystal by a couple of pounds and I'll mash for quite a bit longer and see what that brings. But very pleasing, just not as dry as I wanted.
Click to expand...


Where was the FG at?
 
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much Crystal.
 
OK! I get it! You don't like Crystal malt. I've changed the recipe and reduced the crystal by almost half and increased the pale by the same amount keeping the grain bill at 16 pounds. I know, still too much crystal. I'll just have to see when it's done.
 
All I can say (not being a scientist or master brewer) is that it must have been the WLP090 (San Diego Super Strain) yeast. But I really don't know. I know that I checked with a refractometer and double checked with a hydrometer and (after conversion) both readings were spot on.
 
Thanks, I appreciate the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Most folks have just said "it's way too much" without giving me a reason. All I'm trying to do is find out what tastes like what. If I make a mistake, I'M the one that has to drink it! Maybe I should have done a 15 pound 6-row with 1 pound crystal 120. Or maybe 15 pounds crystal 120 with 1 pound 2-row. How will I ever know if I don't try? I didn't go to brewer's school. I'm just winging it. And at the end of the day, how else can I learn? I just don't understand (yet) why crystal is so negatively viewed. I've tried recipes with all 2-row, all 6-row, all pilsner, a mix of many malts, etc. I'm simply trying to learn what works and what doesn't.
 
Yeah, it's all about experimenting and learning through mistakes. And some of those that people say are mistakes turn out to be successes that people hadn't tried before or tried in different ways that didn't help.

I think the thinking is that in an IPA the hops really need to shine and so much crystal overpowers it and hides lots of the subtle hops flavors. It's such a strong syrupy, or bronze, flavor and hops are so light and flower like.

I guess I'd say get a red ale, an India red ale, and an IPA and compare them. (Get a light IPA like a stone or something to make the difference more clear) and that'll give you a basic gist of how malty and hops play together, then when you're making them you'll be able to identify it better.
 
I had a few pours of this recipe last night and while not a Thunderstruck clone it was excellent. The dry hopping really came through. I was quite pleasantly surprised after all the negativity about too much crystal malts. I may try an all 6-row base malt (about 18 pounds) with the same hop bill and see how it comes out.
 
You're getting comments on the crystal malt because they have no diastatic power. They are already converted, so any sugars you get out of them remain in the beer, the yeast cannot consume them. Putting 7 lbs of crystal malt into an IPA should have ended up with your beer being cloyingly sweet, pretty much the opposite of a west coast IPA, which are typically bone dry.

Now you are reporting that your beer finished at 1.004, which is very dry, something doesn't make sense here. It seems impossible that a recipe consisting of 44% crystal malt could possibly finish at 1.004. Hence the comments on too much crystal. I believe the general rule of thumb for a west coast IPA is around 5% (or less) of the grain bill should be crystal and certainly no more than 10%.

Here is a quick little primer on crystal/caramel malts if you are interested in learning more about them. They are considered to be specialty malts and shouldn't be used as a base malt (because of the sugar thing from up above);

http://beersmith.com/blog/2014/06/26/caramel-and-crystal-malt-in-beer-brewing/
 
TheHopfather said:
Now you are reporting that your beer finished at 1.004, which is very dry, something doesn't make sense here. It seems impossible that a recipe consisting of 44% crystal malt could possibly finish at 1.004. Hence the comments on too much crystal. I believe the general rule of thumb for a west coast IPA is around 5% (or less) of the grain bill should be crystal and certainly no more than 10%.
Click to expand...

If he did get 1.004 I'd love to know how! thats damn impressive.

can i ask how you measured OG?

We're not trying to be negative here, just trying to offer advice on how best to clone the beer you like so much.
juist constructive feedback really.
as Im sure there are many out there who like this beer as well, and want to make a clone.
 
I can't really answer the HOW of it. I can only say it worked. I measured the OG with a refractometer and double checked it with my hydrometer. Same goes for the FG. Initially with a refractometer and plugged the numbers into my spreadsheet and got the numbers converted. Then double checked with my hydrometer. I only recently got the refractometer so I am always doing the double check. My guess, and it's truly a guess, is the WLP090 yeast is the reason it worked. As I have said, this was an experiment to find out what happens with this malt bill. I was VERY surprised at the result. And happy with the flavor. Next time around will be all 6-row. Again, I'm just trying to have fun and experiment.
 
RichPetersen said:
I can't really answer the HOW of it. I can only say it worked. I measured the OG with a refractometer and double checked it with my hydrometer. Same goes for the FG. Initially with a refractometer and plugged the numbers into my spreadsheet and got the numbers converted. Then double checked with my hydrometer. I only recently got the refractometer so I am always doing the double check. My guess, and it's truly a guess, is the WLP090 yeast is the reason it worked. As I have said, this was an experiment to find out what happens with this malt bill. I was VERY surprised at the result. And happy with the flavor. Next time around will be all 6-row. Again, I'm just trying to have fun and experiment.
Click to expand...

WLP090 is a great yeast.
 
RichPetersen said:
I can't really answer the HOW of it. I can only say it worked. I measured the OG with a refractometer and double checked it with my hydrometer. Same goes for the FG. Initially with a refractometer and plugged the numbers into my spreadsheet and got the numbers converted. Then double checked with my hydrometer. I only recently got the refractometer so I am always doing the double check. My guess, and it's truly a guess, is the WLP090 yeast is the reason it worked. As I have said, this was an experiment to find out what happens with this malt bill. I was VERY surprised at the result. And happy with the flavor. Next time around will be all 6-row. Again, I'm just trying to have fun and experiment.
Click to expand...

Very interesting, all of this. I'm with most of the others that something seems very wrong here if you actually did use 7 lbs of crystal (41% of your fermentables, including the agave) and still got down to 1.004... WLP090 IS an awesome yeast, but an FG like that for a grain bill like yours would be surprising even with something like a saison yeast...MAYBE with Brett...which makes me wonder, actually, if you got some wild yeast in there by accident.

At any rate, I think someone else already said it, but the reason that everyone balked at your *ahem* generous use of crystal malt is that it leaves significant quantities of unfermentable sugars in the wort, leading to decreased attenuation and more residual sweetness in the final beer. It is not a "base malt," and is actually created using a different method in the malt house. Most U.S. brewers, home and professional, tend to agree that it should be limited to small quantities in IPAs -- <10%, and in many cases <5% (such as Pliny the Elder). Even in strong malt forward beers, ~2 lbs in a 5 gallon batch is often seen as "a lot," although not unacceptable (and of course there are the occasional exceptions).

I agree with your spirit of curiosity. You DO have to try things that might not work in order to learn. With that said, it is useful to realize that if your goal is to clone a Stone IPA (any of them), 7 lbs of crystal in a 5 gallon batch is going to be 6-7 lbs too much.
 
I agree with you. The beer came out really good but not what I wanted. It was a really good learning experience. I'm glad I tried it but, as I have said, my next attempt will be with NO crystal. Everything else will be the same so I can judge for myself what crystal malt does. As for "wild" yeast, who knows? I brew inside my house (AZ summers are WAY too hot to brew outside) so maybe. At this point I've just chalked it up to more knowledge and I'll just have to finish the keg....damn!
 
Drom John Stone Thunderstruck IPA.png
My version:

Partial something.
8.72 ABV calculated
94.29 IBU calculated
6.60 SRM calculated

45 minutes at 155F
4 lb 15 oz 2-Row (Briess Organic)

60 minute boil
1 oz Topaz (60 min)
9.15 lb Light LME (Briess Organic) (60 min)
1.5 oz Galaxy (15.5 min)

WLP007 Dry English Ale

1 week primary

2 oz Ella
2 oz Vic Secret

1 week secondary

3 weeks bottled
First taste 24 June 2018

Alas, no Fairview. A request to Stone for a recommendation for Fairview substitution went unanswered. Four hops from three dealers, Galaxy from Northern Brewer (along with malt and yeast), Ella and Vic Secret from Yakima Valley, Topaz from Austin Homebrew. Uff da!
 
Last edited:
DromJohn said:
View attachment 571000 My version:
Partial something.
8.72 ABV calculated
94.29 IBU calculated
6.60 SRM calculated
45 minutes at 155F
4 lb 15 oz 2-Row (Briess Organic)
60 minute boil
1 oz Topaz (60 min)
9.15 lb Light LME (Briess Organic) (60 min)
1.5 oz Galaxy (15.5 min)
WLP007 Dry English Ale
1 week primary
2 oz Ella
2 oz Vic Secret
1 week secondary
3 weeks bottled
First taste 24 June 2018
Alas, no Fairview. A request to Stone for a recommendation for Fairview substitution went unanswered. Four hops from three dealers, Galaxy from Northern Brewer (along with malt and yeast), Ella and Vic Secret from Yakima Valley, Topaz from Austin Homebrew. Uff da!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't bother with the secondary, just primary for 2 weeks, leave it onthe yeast to clean up. dryhops thecrap out of it and enjoy.
I managed to pick up some enigma, which should be nice in a beerlike this.
Might have to give it a crack soon.
I have a new house IPA recipe thats turned out well, and I've been testing hops with it.
Its much like delicious IPA at the monment, as it started as a clone, but I wonder if it would begood with different dryhops through it each time.
 
Good, but no side-by-side. Nice hops. SWMBO says it is not sweet enough.
If Fairview is still not available, then I would try Golden Promise instead of Briess 2-Row.
 

Similar threads

D
Birch sap hop water
Replies
0
Views
183
divrack
D
hilljack13
Alpha acid average
Replies
2
Views
226
hilljack13
hilljack13
K
Yeast Help for DIPA Clone
Replies
3
Views
121
day_trippr
day_trippr
R
Motueka hops
Replies
20
Views
2K
Wrendelar
Wrendelar
B
Moving from Primary to Secondary?
Replies
10
Views
471
mac_1103
mac_1103
Brewer's Friend 300

Latest posts

Back
Top