Still bubbling

[tarmenel]

Hi there. I've been wanting to bottle a Berliner Weisse but it's still chuggling away. Each evening I check the fermentors and it is still producing co2 on a regular basis 5-10 minutes. Should I wait it out or something else going on? I'm not to keen to open up my fermentor especially as I'm still seeing physical signs of fermentation

 

[J-Rock44]

Assuming the 5-10 min you mention is the time interval your checking on the brew and not the time in between bubbles from the air lock, then I would wait a bit till around the 30sec mark, then do a gravity reading

 

[Mexibilly]

Hi there. I've been wanting to bottle a Berliner Weisse but it's still chuggling away. Each evening I check the fermentors and it is still producing co2 on a regular basis 5-10 minutes. Should I wait it out or something else going on? I'm not to keen to open up my fermentor especially as I'm still seeing physical signs of fermentation

Bubbling from the airlock is a good sign that fermentation is still happening.
You'll need to check the gravity, then check again a day or 2 later. If it's unchanging you're good.
Don't bottle based on bubbles.

 

[tarmenel]

If it's still bubbling does yhat not mean fermentation is still happening. I don't want to open and sample if I don't need to

 

[RM-MN]

Bubbles are not a good indication of continuing fermentation. The later stages of fermentation produce no CO2 but the beer in your fermenter will have CO2 dissolved in it that will continue to out gas which will produce bubbles. Go ahead and open that fermenter and take a gravity sample as it is the only way to know if fermentation is complete. Taking a sample won't ruin your beer, otherwise lots of us would be dumping our beer. As long as there isn't a strong wind blowing the layer of CO2 will stay in the fermenter as CO2 is 1.5 times as dense as air. Make sure to sanitize your sampling device (turkey baster?) and don't return the sample to the fermenter.

 

[balrog]

+1 on RM-MN's notes. Remember the dissolved CO2 will come out of solution with changes in temp and pressure, more than you think with small changes in temp and barometric pressure. SG reading is the only way to know what the fermentation is doing.

 

[bendog15]

Take a gravity reading. Wait 2 days, take another. If it's the same, time to bottle. Airlocks are not a good sign of fermentation. Trust your hydrometer.

 

[tarmenel]

Apologies for beating a dead horse but why would it be bubbling if it was not fermenting.
I can understand the opposite that even when it's not bubbling it could still be fermenting but a bubbling airlock must mean something is happening in there.

 

[LBussy]

Apologies for beating a dead horse but why would it be bubbling if it was not fermenting.
I can understand the opposite that even when it's not bubbling it could still be fermenting but a bubbling airlock must mean something is happening in there.

Open a bottle of beer and put an airlock on it. See how many days it bubbles. That's why a beer will continue to show airlock activity after it is done fermenting. I don't think anyone is telling you that it is absolutely done, just that the airlock is not a fool-proof indicator.

Fermented beverages will keep a certain amount of CO2 in solution just from the fermentation and will release it slowly even after fermentation is done. Search Google for "de-gas wine" for all the trouble winemakers go through to get the CO2 out (I am not suggesting you de-gas your beer.) Checking gravity is the only way to know for sure.

Personally, I like to avoid any opportunities to introduce infection so I simply wait till the beer drops clear.

 

[tarmenel]

The whole infection thing is why I don't really want to open it up.
Thanks so much for the great explanation. I'll give it till the weekend and then start taking readings. It's just such a pity cause I loose 250ml each time with the hydrometer. Just seems like such a waste. Bought a refractometer so might be time to use that.

 

[ncsuwerewolf]

Refractometers are good for measuring wort. Not for measuring FG in beer. Hydrometer is the only way to go.

 

[tarmenel]

Are there small hydrometers or am I stuck with wasting 250-300ml of beer each time I measure?

 

[LBussy]

The whole infection thing is why I don't really want to open it up.
Thanks so much for the great explanation. I'll give it till the weekend and then start taking readings. It's just such a pity cause I loose 250ml each time with the hydrometer. Just seems like such a waste. Bought a refractometer so might be time to use that.

A refractometer will not give an exact reading - they measure sucrose in clear water so a conversion is necessary when measuring maltose in wort. Then when you measure a fermented beverage the calculation gets more complex yet and requires you know the starting gravity.

I say this not to discourage you but for the sake of completeness ... you can use your refractometer as you hope because you will be taking relative readings. The same reading over several days is the same reading no matter what it means. If it stays the same it's done fermenting.

Before you add a refractometer to your tool box permanently however (I love mine) do a little reading so you know what you are getting yourself into.

I again want to recommend just waiting for the yeast to fall. Depending on the yeast you should see a pretty dramatic change when the ferment is done. With some ale yeasts I can see a very well defined band at the top which gets wider as time goes on. As soon as this forms the fermentation is done. As soon as it reaches the bottom the beer is clear and ready to keg (or bottle in your case). You want to bottle clear anyway right? I mean bottling the second the fermentation is done leaves a lot of sediment in the bottles.

Refractometers are good for measuring wort. Not for measuring FG in beer. Hydrometer is the only way to go.

Technically true ... but a refractometer would be a fine tool for comparison purposes in this case.

 

[PGEduardo]

Yup. Refractometers are great, and work OK for final gravity if you use a calculator. They might be a point or two off in the end but as long as it's close to what you expected and stable, you're good to go!

Plenty of mistakes can be made with hydrometers (getting a stable reading with bubbles, temperature, etc.), not to mention the amount of beer needed for a sample and the propensity for them to break...

For the record, I still use both. They just both have their limitations. Airlock activity means essentially nothing after initial vigorous fermentation as mentioned. Put an airlock on an empty carboy and watch for bubbles...

 

[tarmenel]

Just found this: http://beersmith.com/blog/2010/11/02/how-to-use-a-refractometer-brix-and-beer-brewing/
I use beersmith and also take SG of every beer. I'll give it a go and see how that works.
I'll still work with the hydrometer but it hurts just throwing away the beer taking readings

 

[dstockwell]

Are there small hydrometers or am I stuck with wasting 250-300ml of beer each time I measure?

With using a sanitized hydrometer jar and hydrometer, that beer is going back in, not wasting any.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

The whole infection thing is why I don't really want to open it up.
Thanks so much for the great explanation. I'll give it till the weekend and then start taking readings. It's just such a pity cause I loose 250ml each time with the hydrometer. Just seems like such a waste. Bought a refractometer so might be time to use that.

Sorry if I missed this, how long have you had this in the fermentor? The airlock action or lack of action is not a reliable way to judge that fermentation is done, Gravity readings are.

I do small batches so I do use the refractometer for checking the end of fermentation. I wipe the rubber grommet and area with one step, remove the airlock from the gromet and then insert a sanitized straw into the beer, put my finger on the top and get a small sample. Wipe the airlock stem and insert into the gromet. You get for than the couple drops you need for the reading without prying off the lid. I can check color and have a little sip to taste the progress this way too.

I understand that you do not want to risk contamination or bottle bombs, with that said, do what you need to do with sanitary conditions and equiptment and you should have no problems.

 

[tarmenel]

I'm pretty crazy about sanitation. I clean, spray and wipe everything within a 100m radius with cleaner. So opening for readings is really not what I'd like to do. Also chucking beer taken out back in is just not a risk I'm willing to take. No matter how clean I am I can just imagine something might get into the beer. I like the straw idea and will give that a go. I've actually ordered a syringe and stainless needle to stick in and draw out a tiny bit. That way I won't need to get in contact with the beer at all.

 

[PGEduardo]

With using a sanitized hydrometer jar and hydrometer, that beer is going back in, not wasting any.

While this might avoid infection, you're also potentially oxidizing the beer. I don't worry too much about infection, but oxidation is probably what I'd worry about most when returning a sample to the fermenter...

 

[kh54s10]

I have still not seen an answer about how long this has been fermenting. If less than 7-10 days - wait another few days.. I never do anything with my beers in less than 2 weeks.

Refractometers will not give an accurate reading with the presence of alcohol. The calculators are not totally accurate either. If you use a refractometer you just look for a stable number. It will be inaccurate for calculating ABV.

DO NOT sanitize your hydrometer cylinder and return the sample. This is too big a risk.

 

[EJay]

For what its worth, the refractometer calculators (particularly Sean Terrill's) are damn accurate, particularly for the 'is it changing' purposes. I've gotten so sick of checking the calculated figure vs actual hydrometer reading, to find no difference, that I only rarely double-check against hydrometer anymore. And its so easy to steal a drop with a pipette, and thats all it takes. I would probably use a hydrometer if I was doing some oddball brew, but for regular (i.e. no exotic ingredients or high gravity), I'm sold on the hydro.

I too am curious how long the OP's brew has been fermenting.

 

[PGEduardo]

Refractometers will not give an accurate reading with the presence of alcohol. The calculators are not totally accurate either. If you use a refractometer you just look for a stable number. It will be inaccurate for calculating ABV.

Have you tried these calculators and compared with a hydrometer? I have, and my readings matched perfectly. I think others have reported being 1 or two points off, but that's sort of in the noise when compared to the accuracy of *most* hydrometers. You have to be certain there are no bubbles, make sure it's completely level without the hydrometer touching the side of the flask, correct for temperature, eyeball the meniscus with rough graduation marks...

For me at least, 1.010 versus 1.012 is good enough to estimate ABV%...

 

[kh54s10]

Have you tried these calculators and compared with a hydrometer? I have, and my readings matched perfectly. I think others have reported being 1 or two points off, but that's sort of in the noise when compared to the accuracy of *most* hydrometers. You have to be certain there are no bubbles, make sure it's completely level without the hydrometer touching the side of the flask, correct for temperature, eyeball the meniscus with rough graduation marks...

For me at least, 1.010 versus 1.012 is good enough to estimate ABV%...

I tried the calculators quite a while ago. I got a lot more variance. 1.010 then try a different one and get 1.018 to 1.004 for example. Truly that far off. 2 points is OK but the difference of one calculator to another of maybe 10-14 points is useless.

When I do use my refractometer I just look for the same number from one day to the next. No correcting. I really don't care what the ABV% is....

 

[EJay]

I tried the calculators quite a while ago. I got a lot more variance. 1.010 then try a different one and get 1.018 to 1.004 for example. Truly that far off. 2 points is OK but the difference of one calculator to another of maybe 10-14 points is useless.

That doesn't mean refractometers are bad, or that calculators are all bad, just that you found one that doesn't agree with others. Thats like saying one pH meter doesn't agree with another, therefore pH meters are bad. You could theoretically have that problem with any instrument.

If you trust your hydrometer, find a calculator that agrees with that and you're good to go.

The calculator at Seanterrill.com is great.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Refractometers are good for measuring wort. Not for measuring FG in beer. Hydrometer is the only way to go.

For the purpose of seeing that fermentation is done, the refractometer is fine for getting final gravity and calculating ABV it is debatable that the correction calculators are accurate, but I'm not in business so an approximate ABV is good enough for my homebrew.

 

[tarmenel]

It's been three weeks. This is the first time I've seen a fermentation go on like this.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Again just because your airlock is bubbling doesn't imply you're still in active fermentation.

Your airlock will bubbly for a varying amount of reasons. Most likely temperature changes and/or atmospheric pressure changes. Also vibration if the fermenter gets bumped or nudged can also knock residual absorbed co2 out of solution which can cause the airlock to bubble also. The only way to know what is going on with your beer is to take a gravity reading and see. If it's been longer than 3-5 days your most likely past the vigorous stage of fermentation.

 

[kh54s10]

It's been three weeks. This is the first time I've seen a fermentation go on like this.

At 3 weeks I would say the fermentation is most likely finished. You might take a peek through the airlock hole - no krausen = probably done. Then take a gravity reading.

I would say that you are just getting co2 coming out of solution due to temperature changes, atmospheric pressure changes etc.

Time to open it up....

 

[tarmenel]

Bottled today. Reading was 1.010 which is spot on. Thanks for all the help.