• Please visit and share your knowledge at our sister communities:
  • If you have not, please join our official Homebrewing Facebook Group!

    Homebrewing Facebook Group

Step mash/ decoction for wheat beer?

Homebrew Talk

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

brewman42

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
49
Reaction score
0
Hello,

Just wanted to get everyone's thoughts on whether or not a step mash or decoction is needed/helpful in brewing a killer hefeweizen?

If it is, I'd love some pointers on how it can be done with a converted cooler mash tun set up.

Thanks!
 
This is a tough one. You will have to experiment with your own brewing to know if it makes a difference for you. I like to step mash and am always trying new things to improve my hefeweizen. The next thing I will try is a rest at 86f to increase banana flavor. But I digress...

To do this in a cooler you need to start with a thick mash and add boiling water to get the different steps. This limits you to about 2-3 steps in order to keep within a decent water to grist ratio. A program like Beersmith is a needed to calculate the temps and water volumes.

As a side note, I read that Spaten (Franziskaner) does a single infusion mash. Pretty much one of the gold standards in German hefeweizen. So who knows what is best.
 
You can do an initial rest with a low water to grain ratio at 125F for 20-30 minutes and than use hotter water to get to mash temperatures the same as doing a mash and mash out in a cooler.
I did a modified American Wheat this summer with a rest, mash and mash out using this approach. I modified one of the on line spreadsheets to calculate the extra water addition amount.
Do not forget the rice hulls also to prevent a stuck sparge.
Be careful with wheats since they can ferment quickly especially with good dry yeast. Mine blew the lid off the fermenter and I had to add a blow off tube.
Beer came out great and was liked a lot by my wife and mom who are not into hoppy beers. I played around a little and threw in some rice malt extract and beer came out like a cross between a Budweiser and Wheat beer but much higher alcohol content.
 
Jamil Z's Jan/Feb 2011 article from BYO magazine has a lot of good tips on hefeweizens. It is easy to find online. From that article alone, I have experimented with hefeweizens 5 times this year, with the last one being a month ago. I think I almost got it to my liking.

Try looking up his article. It will focus you some more
 
If you want to try a decoction an easy method that doesn't take that much more time than a step mash is the Schmitz Decoction. It should work pretty well for your system.
 
If you want to try a decoction an easy method that doesn't take that much more time than a step mash is the Schmitz Decoction. It should work pretty well for your system.

You almost wrote a diss on the topic.
Here's some good reading on this process, led by wobdee himself.

Although Belgian styles aren't typically known for decoctions, I brew a Belgian Wit using Eric Warner's Double Wheat Decoction and it has a "lot of flavor for the style" as one of the judges commented. I use WY3944, but for your purpose substitute with a Hefe yeast.

Yes, it is a lot of work, and the decoction mash alone takes 3 1/2 hours, before lautering which can take another hour, or longer, even with lots of rice hulls. But the efforts are worth it in every respect, I think. Last time I used 70% wheat in an 11 gallon batch. Yummy!

Let me add, I've used a 52qt rectangular cooler to hold the main mash, and scoop my decoction steps out (use a strainer). I encountered some more heat loss than anticipated, so I had to scoop a few times more and heat those portions up to attain the rest temps. The last time I used my (insulated) 15 gallon kettle for the main mash, easy to heat up with good stirring, and used my 8 gallon kettle to perform the decoctions in. With that system I could keep the temps of the main mash closer to target, or bring them back, easily and quickly.

When you do decoctions you need to make sure not to scorch the thick mash portion you're heating. Stirring and scraping the bottom well while applying heat is advised, so it doesn't stick.

It is a bit difficult to gauge how much "1/3rd of the mash" is, so make a mental note of the volume 1/3 of wetted grains takes up.
 
A trick that I was taught from Neill Acer of Defiant Brewing is to do your mash (step, infusion, whatever) and THEN do a decoction after conversion is complete. Maybe to do the last temperature increase at the end. Boil 1/4 to 1/3 of the mash for 10 to 30 minutes (10 for lighter beers etc). It works wonders for malt flavor and character.

When you do the decoction does not make a difference.

Have also been told that melanoiden malt will give the same sort of malty characteristics, but have not tried it...
 
I call that faux decoction. Boil down a portion of the first running to a near syrup in a separate pot. I do that with a lot of small beers and smashes to enhance melanoidins. But I don't think that's what he's looking for here.
 
I call that faux decoction. Boil down a portion of the first running to a near syrup in a separate pot. I do that with a lot of small beers and smashes to enhance melanoidins. But I don't think that's what he's looking for here.

No that is not the idea, nor do I think that that is the same thing. The idea is to boil the grains, and in my example, do the final temperature step using a decoction. This is someone who has gone to Seibel and has been a pro for 20 years, and he is not the only pro that I know that uses this technique for getting the decoction effect.

And yes you can do 2 decoctions using this method. Works great and have been doing it for many years
 
OP. The beer will turn out differently if you control what the enzymes are doing. Check Weyermann's site. There are a few recipes that use the step mash process. When wheat is used in a recipe, a rest in the proteolytic range is a good idea. The rest will reduce the mash viscosity and convert some of the beta glucan to glucose. A ferulic rest can be tossed in, as well.
If you want to try out the decoction method. It might be better to start out using one malt and some sour malt, until you get your feet wet. When malt and wheat are boiled the mash gets pretty thick and it takes a little bit of experience to know how to deal with it. Break in slowly, after that, red line it.

"A trick that I was taught from Neill Acer of Defiant Brewing is to do your mash (step, infusion, whatever) and THEN do a decoction after conversion is complete. Maybe to do the last temperature increase at the end. Boil 1/4 to 1/3 of the mash for 10 to 30 minutes (10 for lighter beers etc). It works wonders for malt flavor and character."
"
"The idea is to boil the grains, and in my example, do the final temperature step using a decoction."

The problem that comes up when grain is boiled after conversion takes place, has something to do with hard starch. The starch is heat resistant to a point and somewhat, impervious to enzymes during conversion. When the decoction is brought to boiling, the hard starch will burst. When that happens, amylopectin is released and the decoction gelatinizes. Since, the decoction is used to denature enzymes, the amylopectin will not be converted. The starch will end up in the bottle. Product stability and shelf life will be reduced.

Are you sure that the brewer didn't instruct you to use mash liquid for the final decoction? Or, did he give you disinformation about the process that he uses, because it puts food on his table? A brewmaster or distiller, most certainly, isn't going to give anyone any idea about his process or recipes, unless, his family is in front of a firing squad. If the guy is brewing beer the way you explained it, he is adding problems. I don't believe that he performs the process the same way that you are doing it.

I began learning about the tri-decoction method in 1987 and have never used another method, since then. I understand what takes place throughout the process and can assure you that jelled mash isn't used for the final decoction and never was.

Before the first decoction is removed, mash pH should be at least 5.5. The first decoction is the one that is used for creating melanoidin. The first decoction is rested in the proteolysis range and increased in temp to 155F until conversion. After conversion, the mash is brought to boiling and the mash jells.
The jelled decoctions are added back into the main mash and used to raise the mash to a conversion temperature. Depending on what temperature is chosen. The amylopectin will be reduced by beta or by alpha. When beta is active, maltose, maltriose and B-limit dextrin are produced. When alpha is active, non-fermantable sugar and A-Limit dextrin are produced. After all that stuff takes place. The enzyme laden mash liquid is removed and boiled as the final decoction. Then, it is added back to the main mash for mash out. That, my friend, is how the decoction method works, in a nutshell.

The Schmitz decoction process boils the entire grain bill before conversion. The trick to the process is that the enzyme laden mash liquid is removed during different rest periods, before the mash is boiled. Then it is add back after gelatization, to convert the mash. The process has been around for almost one hundred years. The complexity of the process was part of the reason it died out. The process is very cool.
 
Wow, thanks a lot for everyone's input. Definitely a lot to consider before my next brew day. Right now I'm pretty loyal to the hefeweizen genre. I look forward to tweaking my recipe till it's perfect!
I may try a decoction next time.

Cheers!
 
OP. Tweaking the recipe is fine. Tweaking the process, that will be used to make the recipe, because you learned what takes place during the process, is better. Accomplish that, and then you will be able to discern whether the recipe will actually produce the style of beer or not. The step mash method is a good method for the style you are brewing. Enjoy making the Hefe. BREW ON!!!!


Wob,
Sooner or later I'm going to get into the process that you are using. I dug up some info about the process. When I looked at the data, it was mind blowing. That is one in depth process! It is far more complex than the tri-decoction method. I think that it is the king of brewing processes. In my opinion, by following the original way the process was performed, the finest beer will be produced. Whoever conceived the method had to be borderline mad.
 
OP. Tweaking the recipe is fine. Tweaking the process, that will be used to make the recipe, because you learned what takes place during the process, is better. Accomplish that, and then you will be able to discern whether the recipe will actually produce the style of beer or not. The step mash method is a good method for the style you are brewing. Enjoy making the Hefe. BREW ON!!!!


Wob,
Sooner or later I'm going to get into the process that you are using. I dug up some info about the process. When I looked at the data, it was mind blowing. That is one in depth process! It is far more complex than the tri-decoction method. I think that it is the king of brewing processes. In my opinion, by following the original way the process was performed, the finest beer will be produced. Whoever conceived the method had to be borderline mad.

I'd appreciate any links or info you've found on the Schmitz process, I haven't found much. It is producing great lagers for me.
 
Hello,

Just wanted to get everyone's thoughts on whether or not a step mash or decoction is needed/helpful in brewing a killer hefeweizen?

If it is, I'd love some pointers on how it can be done with a converted cooler mash tun set up.

Thanks!

For Hefeweizens, Id recommend doing a ferulic acid rest. I recently learned about this technique and it really helps create these precursors that hefe yeasts turn into those signature banana/clove esters.

Do a mash at 110-115 for 15 min, then step up to your normal mash (148-152 for a hefe?) for the remaining 45 or 60 if you really want.

Trust me, works wonders. Last hefe I made was by far and away the most to style I've done
 
Awesome! That sounds easy enough. I will give that a try! Thanks! Not sure I'm ready for the step decoctions.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top