I found a clone extract version of Odell 90 Schilling Ale that I wanted to brew but had some questions. The grains are 1lb. munich 10l malt, 8oz crystal 80l malt, 8oz crystal 20l malt, 8oz wheat malt, 8oz carapils malt. It says to crush and steep in 3 gal of 155 degree water for 45 min. Is that too much water for these grains? I've read some posts about ending up with a lot of starch in your wort.
Steeping base malts?
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The Munich 10L & wheat malts are base malts & must be mashed, or you'll get starch haze. I go by 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 quarts water per pound of grain for mashing. Then dunk sparge with my nylon grain bag so I can stir the sparge as well. I like to use sparged wort to get up to boil volume. Which in my pb/pm biab with 5G kettle generally means 3 1/2 gallons boil volume.
So for 3lbs of crushed grains, a maximum of 4 1/2 quarts of water would be used for the mash. 1 1/2 gallons would be close enough. Sparge with 2 gallons if you want 3 1/2 gallons boil volume. I prefer sparging to boil volume in the case of a partial boil, partial mash beer. It gives greater efficiency, ie higher OG.
So for 3lbs of crushed grains, a maximum of 4 1/2 quarts of water would be used for the mash. 1 1/2 gallons would be close enough. Sparge with 2 gallons if you want 3 1/2 gallons boil volume. I prefer sparging to boil volume in the case of a partial boil, partial mash beer. It gives greater efficiency, ie higher OG.
dkevinb
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That sounds almost like a mini-mash to me. The crystal and carapils are already converted, so they should be fine, either way, and the Munich should have enough diastatic power to convert itself. The only one I don't know about is the wheat. I wouldn't be too concerned about that amount of water, I do Brew In A Bag all grain and sometimes my mashes are almost that thin and turn out fine.
3 gallons of water is way too much for only 3lbs of grains in the mash. The enzymes ability to convert changes with water to grain amounts if I remember correctly. Besides PH. But basically, the amounts of water for steeping can be far greater than mashing & come out fine. but since there are two base malts in there, a mash will be needed & a gallon per pound is too much in my experience/opinion.
@ 1 1/2 quarts per pound, 6 quarts or 1 1/2 gallons would be used. 2 gallons tops, as I've done with 4lbs of grains. So 2 gallons max for the mash & 1 1/2 gallon sparge for 3 1/2 gallons boil volume. That's for mashing. Steeping crystal grains & the like is different, not to be confused with mashing. Steeping water amounts aren't as critical as mash water amounts, basically.
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dkevinb
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I know that's the common wisdom for standard American/English 3-vessel brewing, but German brewers have been using much thinner mashes for centuries with good success. And those whacky Australians claim they can actually brew beer in a bag while putting all the water in the kettle at the same time.
Seriously, I recently did a BIAB ordinary bitter and mashed 7.75 pounds of grain in 7 gallons of water. I hit 78% brewhouse efficiency and the beer is clear as glass. I will say, though, that 7 pounds of that was 2-row. In the OP's case he's only got one pound of base malt in a 3-gallon mash, and that may make quite a bit of difference.
That's true that BIAB brewers that do full volume mashes use a very high water to grain ratio (I think around 3 qt/lb but it varies depending on the beer) and they get fine conversion. So a 4 qt/lb ratio wouldn't be insane.
But I think unionrdr is right that you should probably use a smaller amount of water for this mini mash. The Munich malt isn't very high in enzymes, so with a high water/grain ratio you may have trouble converting because the small amount of enzymes present will be too diluted to work efficiently.
I would do the recommended time and temperature but only use around 1.5 gallons of water for the mini mash like union suggested.
But I think unionrdr is right that you should probably use a smaller amount of water for this mini mash. The Munich malt isn't very high in enzymes, so with a high water/grain ratio you may have trouble converting because the small amount of enzymes present will be too diluted to work efficiently.
I would do the recommended time and temperature but only use around 1.5 gallons of water for the mini mash like union suggested.
dkevinb
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Yeah, I think with just a half pound each of the Munich and wheat this is probably the safest approach.
Thanks. That's why I brought up diastatic power of the enzymes versus water volume. Especially with partial mash.
No, there's no need to cut back on the munich. It will convert just fine as long as you cut back on the water.
And yes, wheat is considered a base malt. It needs to be converted in a mash and has a pretty high amount of enzymes (I think around 120 L).
dkevinb
Well-Known Member
Just the water. The Munich and wheat malts have enzymes in them that will convert the starches to sugars. If the mash is too thin the concentration won't be high enough for the conversion to be very efficient, so you'll wind up with unconverted starches in the wort that will cause starch haze.
Does the grain bag/pouch have a label?
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Just make sure you get wheat malt and not torrified, flaked or cracked wheat which have no enzymes for conversion (ask me how I found out the hard way...)
That's what I was getting at, what the op actually bought...
Whether you use white wheat malt or red wheat malt will make little difference in this recipe. Your beer might turn out just a little darker with the red wheat malt.
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