Stc-1000+

[satph]

I set up an STC flashed to 1.05 on a test rig. I set the cd to 20 and the sp to above ambient and waited for the cooling to come on. I then cooled the probe with an ice cube to get it to shut off. I then warmed the probe in my hand, and the cooling went to delay, but came on within 3 minutes the first time, and 1 minute the second time I did this test. I can upgrade to 1.06 and try again. I would think the cd setting should override everything else, or do I have something else set incorrectly?

 

[wilconrad]

Some good news from the supplier I've been working with for these controllers; they were able to add a resistor and a 3-position terminal block to the board so that no physical mods will be needed in order to add the 2nd temp sensor. I've ordered 50pcs of these, along with 100 sensors, so will be offering them flashed w/ 2 sensors, ready to install, as soon as I receive them next week. Pics attached if you're interested.

FYI, these units have arrived (dual-sensor capable from the factory) and are now available flashed here. No mods required for the dual-sensor firmware, these will come to you flashed and ready to install with the 2 sensors included.

Thanks,
Will

 

[stpug]

I set up an STC flashed to 1.05 on a test rig. I set the cd to 20 and the sp to above ambient and waited for the cooling to come on. I then cooled the probe with an ice cube to get it to shut off. I then warmed the probe in my hand, and the cooling went to delay, but came on within 3 minutes the first time, and 1 minute the second time I did this test. I can upgrade to 1.06 and try again. I would think the cd setting should override everything else, or do I have something else set incorrectly?

The underlined part of the bold sentence above should be 'below' in order to activate the cooling relay, OR you would have needed to warm up the probe in your hand at this point to move the current probe temp above the setpoint. Perhaps this was just a typo or omission in your post? If not, then it should have been your heating relay that was activated since the STC would want to move your current temperature upto the 'above ambient' setpoint temperature.

Making sure both delays are set to 20 minutes would ensure that regardless of which relay is to be activated, it should take 20 minutes for it to activate.

I just tested mine again to see how the delay timing compares to what it should be because earlier I noted that the initial minute delay seemed a bit faster than a minute. What I'm seeing is that activation of the (cooling) relay is happening at ~93.5% of the total time (haven't tested heating relay). Generally speaking, this is a non-issue BUT it could account for nearly 16 hours early step-change on a 10 day interval if it always takes place at ~93.5% of the way through the current step. Here are the notes I wrote down:

Set [cd] to 20 minutes
Powered on and it took ~56 seconds to start cooling relay (~93.33% of time specified [1min])
Chilled below [ST] to deactivate cooling relay
Hand-warmed above [ST]+[hy] to start cooling relay delay
Cooling relay started after ~18:44 minutes:seconds (~93.67% of time specified [20min])

Like I said, I can't really think that this would be an issue at any point during a fermentation since we are generally aiming for step changes to take place well after a phase of fermentation has ceased but I thought I'd mention my observation. It may just be a limitation of the STC. Regardless, I'm not worried about it

 

[satph]

St. Pug, you are correct I meant below to activate the cooling relay. I set the delay to 60 minutes, and it's still cycling within a minute or two. I'm getting this on multiple STC's with the 1.05 and 1.06 versions. I can over come it with a larger hysteresis, but I can't get it anywhere near the specified time.

 

[stpug]

St. Pug, you are correct I meant below to activate the cooling relay. I set the delay to 60 minutes, and it's still cycling within a minute or two. I'm getting this on multiple STC's with the 1.05 and 1.06 versions. I can over come it with a larger hysteresis, but I can't get it anywhere near the specified time.

I'll have to defer to someone more knowledgeable than me for this one. It certainly sounds like your units are not accounting for the delay correctly.

The only thing I can think of is that you're not 'saving' the delay when setting it, but this would be obvious by simply checking out the [cd] and [hd] settings and they were defaulted to '2' again.

 

[alphaomega]

I just tested mine again to see how the delay timing compares to what it should be because earlier I noted that the initial minute delay seemed a bit faster than a minute. What I'm seeing is that activation of the (cooling) relay is happening at ~93.5% of the total time (haven't tested heating relay). Generally speaking, this is a non-issue BUT it could account for nearly 16 hours early step-change on a 10 day interval if it always takes place at ~93.5% of the way through the current step. Here are the notes I wrote down:

Like I said, I can't really think that this would be an issue at any point during a fermentation since we are generally aiming for step changes to take place well after a phase of fermentation has ceased but I thought I'd mention my observation. It may just be a limitation of the STC. Regardless, I'm not worried about it

This is due to how I needed to select the timer for counting 'real time'. 1 second is actually 960ms (theoretically) and I haven't bothered to adjust for delay counters.
However, counting hours does take account for this and should be as accurate as possible with the internal oscillator of the PIC.

St. Pug, you are correct I meant below to activate the cooling relay. I set the delay to 60 minutes, and it's still cycling within a minute or two. I'm getting this on multiple STC's with the 1.05 and 1.06 versions. I can over come it with a larger hysteresis, but I can't get it anywhere near the specified time.

Yeah, I don't know either what the issue could be. I don't really think it is software, as StPug verified the behaviour.

 

[satph]

Problem solved!

I think the sketch I was using was damaged. I deleted my picproj and downloaded the latest version. Most importantly, pressed the upload button on the Arduino software to upload the new sketch to my Uno. I wasn’t pressing the upload button, so I think I was uploading the same damaged sketch each time. I now have 1.06 running, and it just waited the 20 minutes to cool.

Thanks again AlphaOmega for this great software, Will for his videos and providing flashable units, and to St. Pug for testing my problem.

 

[alphaomega]

Problem solved!

I think the sketch I was using was damaged. I deleted my picproj and downloaded the latest version. Most importantly, pressed the upload button on the Arduino software to upload the new sketch to my Uno. I wasn’t pressing the upload button, so I think I was uploading the same damaged sketch each time. I now have 1.06 running, and it just waited the 20 minutes to cool.

Thanks again AlphaOmega for this great software, Will for his videos and providing flashable units, and to St. Pug for testing my problem.

Nice to hear you got it sorted!
And yes, if you really must upload the sketch to the Arduino, otherwise the same (old) sketch will run.
Again, really good to hear things got sorted

Cheers!

 

[Drio]

Just curious about where to get the dual sensor STC-1000 in Europe, as Will Conrad doesn't ship accross the pond?

Cheers

Drio

 

[smithabusa]

Just curious about where to get the dual sensor STC-1000 in Europe, as Will Conrad doesn't ship accross the pond?

Cheers

Drio

I don't mind shipping international but assume you need the 220v version though correct?

 

[D-Train]

Sorry if this has been asked already. I just got my Arduino Pro Mini and CP2102 and the USB module is slightly different from the user manual.

CP2102 has:
DTR
RXD
TXD
5V
CTS
GND

Pro mini has:
DTR
TXO
RXI
VCC
GND
GND

Do I remove the CTS pin and then solder the following?
DTR to DTR
RXD to TXO
TXD to RXI
5V to VCC
GND to GND

 

[alphaomega]

Sorry if this has been asked already. I just got my Arduino Pro Mini and CP2102 and the USB module is slightly different from the user manual.

CP2102 has:
DTR
RXD
TXD
5V
CTS
GND

Pro mini has:
DTR
TXO
RXI
VCC
GND
GND

Do I remove the CTS pin and then solder the following?
DTR to DTR
RXD to TXO
TXD to RXI
5V to VCC
GND to GND

That sounds correct to me. But if you can, try it before you do anything permanent.

 

[D-Train]

That sounds correct to me. But if you can, try it before you do anything permanent.

Thank you. This worked great and I got it flashed and all boxed up. Just in time for my 2 day old lager, on which I'm trying the brulosopher quick lager profile. Keep up the good work and thanks again.

 

[andyf97]

These seam to have a Jtag connection for programming; I suspect the G80F910D is a kind of Atmel clone/variant/re-branded/Oem version of an existing MCU.

A datasheet is here.

http://www.dycmcu.com/index.php/view-212.html

Hi guys just got 2 STC's from China

guess what?

Yep they are a TOTALLY new design.

Pics attached but there is space on the board for a second sensor and a third relay. There is the crystal blocking the Pic data but what I can see is:

G80F910D
N8S7L
1407-T

There is no Design Id on the main board
The display board is:

PCB-0018 (Top left) and WK-02-K on top rhs

Hey ho!

 

[ThroughTheLookingGlass]

AlphaOmega, would it be possible to make one temperature probe seek to match the other in the 2 probe system?? I would like to use it to control a kegerator tower cooler, and would like the tower cooler to turn on when the tower probe temp raises about a degree or half a degree above the probe down in the kegerator itself, to keep them as close to the same temp as possible. I could leave the cooler on 24-7, but besides wasting electricity and burning out the motor, the motor running constantly produces heat that would also cause the kegerator compressor to run more often as well, wasting more electricity and wear and tear. Trying to control it by not having one probe match the other seems like a fools errand if you don't want to just keep the tower cooler on 24 7. Do you think it would work?

 

[alphaomega]

It depends on your definition of possible. It is not possible with (nor within the scope of) the STC-1000+ firmware, so you'd have to do some coding yourself to have that functionality.

 

[ThroughTheLookingGlass]

Awesome, sounds good, thanks!

 

[RocketBrewer]

I'm still in process of wiring up my first STC-1000+ controller with 2 thermisters but thought I would share a couple things. I didn't think too much about it when I ordered my three pin connectors for the board, but when they arrived they were about half the size I needed. What you want is 5mm pitch, not 2.54. At least they were cheap!
I also got a bunch of 10K ohm 1/4W resistors like these (not the SMD ones) as 200 was about the same as buying ten. If anyone needs some just shoot me your address and how many you need. Also, if anyone needs some 2.54mm pitch 3 pin connectors for another project, let me know.

 

[jaw94087]

I upgraded my Ranco two-stage controller for one of wilconrad’s early black boxes in order to add profiling capability to my fermentation. While the profiling was a desired improvement, I had concerns that excessive ping-ponging of temperature during fermentation might trigger premature hibernation of highly flocculate yeast strains. In particular, I experienced such issues with WLP007, but could not be certain that the temperature ping-ponging was the culprit. So, when wilconrad made available an STC1000+ with two probes and alphaomega’s version 1.06, I jump on it and upgraded my controller. For the last week, I’ve been testing the two probe black box with a beerbug. The beerbug allows me to record both external ambient temperatures and internal wort temperatures via a thermowell. Both the STC and the beerbug probes are in a thermowell. The STC secondary probe measures the air temperature outside the wort. The attached graph shows the STC regulating with and without aid of the second probe.

 

[Spellman]

Without knowing more about your setup, it is hard to speculate what is going on.

I'm assuming you are using a refrigerator or freezer? What are you using to heat? What are your settings on the stc? I have been successfully keeping my fermentations within .3 or .4 F of my set point with ease and consistency. Most of the time it spends much closer, but I get a bit of undershoot temps with my glycol chiller. Back when I had less aggressive cooling capabilities I was within .1-.2. It looks like you have got some swings greater than should be towards the beginning, and very large at the end. If you give us some more details we should be able to get things sorted out for you.

 

[jaw94087]

Spellman, thank you for your thoughtful reply, but my post was not to ask for assistance in diagnosing an issue as much as to report the positive effect of the second probe and release 1.06. You'll notice that when the second probe is disabled, the temperature oscillation of around 2 deg. where as with the second probe, the internal temperature is far more stable.

Jim

 

[alphaomega]

Thanks for sharing your experience with the second probe!
Awesome to see it in action

 

[doug293cz]

I upgraded my Ranco two-stage controller for one of wilconrad’s early black boxes in order to add profiling capability to my fermentation. While the profiling was a desired improvement, I had concerns that excessive ping-ponging of temperature during fermentation might trigger premature hibernation of highly flocculate yeast strains. In particular, I experienced such issues with WLP007, but could not be certain that the temperature ping-ponging was the culprit. So, when wilconrad made available an STC1000+ with two probes and alphaomega’s version 1.06, I jump on it and upgraded my controller. For the last week, I’ve been testing the two probe black box with a beerbug. The beerbug allows me to record both external ambient temperatures and internal wort temperatures via a thermowell. Both the STC and the beerbug probes are in a thermowell. The STC secondary probe measures the air temperature outside the wort. The attached graph shows the STC regulating with and without aid of the second probe.

Jaw, Interesting data. Where is the active part of the temp probe positioned within the fermenter? The large swings when using only one probe suggest there is a long time lag between beer temp response and chamber temp. Thus calling for heat/cooling input for longer than optimal times. The second probe keeps the chamber temp from going crazy, so it works as intended to minimize over/undershoots.

I think there is a lesson for those of us using single probe STC-1000's or 1000+'s. That is to not have the temp probe positioned or insulated in a way that isolates the probe too much from the ambient. But rather, we should target the probe to measure a balance of beer temp and ambient (maybe something like 80/20, but not sure exactly.) I think the best way to do this is to have the probe in contact with the outside of the fermenter, and only somewhat insulated from the ambient. Too much insulation will let the ambient over/undershoot too much before the temp probe senses it, and give excessive temperature oscillation. When using a thermowell, the probe tip should be positioned very close to the side wall of the fermenter, as the beer there will respond to ambient temps faster than beer in the center of the fermenter.

Brew on

 

[smithabusa]

Jaw, Interesting data. Where is the active part of the temp probe positioned within the fermenter? The large swings when using only one probe suggest there is a long time lag between beer temp response and chamber temp. Thus calling for heat/cooling input for longer than optimal times. The second probe keeps the chamber temp from going crazy, so it works as intended to minimize over/undershoots.

I think there is a lesson for those of us using single probe STC-1000's or 1000+'s. That is to not have the temp probe positioned or insulated in a way that isolates the probe too much from the ambient. But rather, we should target the probe to measure a balance of beer temp and ambient (maybe something like 80/20, but not sure exactly.) I think the best way to do this is to have the probe in contact with the outside of the fermenter, and only somewhat insulated from the ambient. Too much insulation will let the ambient over/undershoot too much before the temp probe senses it, and give excessive temperature oscillation. When using a thermowell, the probe tip should be positioned very close to the side wall of the fermenter, as the beer there will respond to ambient temps faster than beer in the center of the fermenter.

Brew on

ive personally had really good luck with temp probe sandwiched in some papertowel folded up taped to the side of the ale pale. I am not logging, but whenever I walk by it I am always extremely close to the setpoint, I don't ever see it cycle back and forth between heat and cool. Its typically cycling just heat and off, or just cool and off. Using a 1 degree hysteresis.

Greg

 

[Singletrack]

Thank you Jaw. Would be interesting to see a comparable chart using only one probe, with the probe taped to the side of the fermenter with a little insulation -- but leave the beerbug in the thermowell. The lesson may be that one probe taped to the side is okay, but if you want to use a thermowell, you need two probes.

If you are so generous to conduct this experiment, please also let us know what you are using for a fermenter.

 

[jaw94087]

doug293cz, the STC1000+ probe was in a thermowell in the center of a carboy filled with water. I believe your theory is correct and seems to be collaborated by Greg's observations that putting a single probe on the exterior surface in the absence of a second probe would be better. Actually, in an offline exchange with wilconrad, he suggested the same. But, I was intrigued with the idea of two sensors, and glad that it seems to work well. I would love to test the theory of putting a single probe on the exterior carboy surface, but I plan to brew this weekend and want to use both probes.

Jim

 

[doug293cz]

doug293cz, the STC1000+ probe was in a thermowell in the center of a carboy filled with water. I believe your theory is correct and seems to be collaborated by Greg's observations that putting a single probe on the exterior surface in the absence of a second probe would be better. Actually, in an offline exchange with wilconrad, he suggested the same. But, I was intrigued with the idea of two sensors, and glad that it seems to work well. I would love to test the theory of putting a single probe on the exterior carboy surface, but I plan to brew this weekend and want to use both probes.

Jim

Yeah, if I had the two sensor capability, I'd use it too! My 1000+ is @ 1.05, and I don't have a way to flash them myself yet, so I'm stuck with single prob for a while. And, I do use the tape to the side with insulation method, but I might have mine a little too well insulated. Need to run some experiments.

Brew on

 

[Singletrack]

Hi!
StPug, I made some changes now that are more in line with what I envisioned. It is pretty much only layout changes. I kind of like having the settings collected and in the order they're laid out in eeprom. Hope you think this is ok.
Check it out : HEX editor tabbed

Edit: Oh, yeah... I haven't had a lot of time for this, so it is kind of rushed... No default values makes a kind of uninteresting starting point..

I'm a little late to the party on this, but would love to use the HEX Editor to keep all my units the same and up to date. I make a lot of changes to profiles, so this is a great tool. Thanks guys!

Question: Do I need to start from the editor's default values each time, or is there a way to save my profiles in the editor? Or, is there a way to easily import/paste in values from a spreadsheet? I think this may have been asked, and there was a response about using a cookie. Could someone explain the recommended procedure a little more? Would be much appreciated!

 

[stpug]

I'm a little late to the party on this, but would love to use the HEX Editor to keep all my units the same and up to date. I make a lot of changes to profiles, so this is a great tool. Thanks guys!

Question: Do I need to start from the editor's default values each time, or is there a way to save my profiles in the editor? Or, is there a way to easily import/paste in values from a spreadsheet? I think this may have been asked, and there was a response about using a cookie. Could someone explain the recommended procedure a little more? Would be much appreciated!

I guess if your controllers are in a situation that's makes them easy to flash then using this generated HEX to quickly update fermentation profiles might be reasonable, otherwise I find it easiest to use this when initially flashing the hardware and then making manual adjustments from there. I find that I'm usually changing an individual duration or temperature, but rarely an entire profile.

Regardless, as it stands now, you have to start from default/base values each time. However, if you simply download the html, javascript, and css files and store them in a directory on your computer then you can manually change the default values in the html file and save your changes. Then simply drag-and-drop that html file into a browser to open it with your new values. The files you would need are:

https://04377c9983bdba740a8b0c997fe...t/0B7OSUyUx3xJzUVlLdkFyQ1lMLTg/hextabbed.html
https://04377c9983bdba740a8b0c997fe...B7OSUyUx3xJzUVlLdkFyQ1lMLTg/jquery-ui.min.css
https://04377c9983bdba740a8b0c997fe...0B7OSUyUx3xJzUVlLdkFyQ1lMLTg/jquery-ui.min.js
https://04377c9983bdba740a8b0c997fe...st/0B7OSUyUx3xJzUVlLdkFyQ1lMLTg/jquery.min.js
https://04377c9983bdba740a8b0c997fe...7OSUyUx3xJzUVlLdkFyQ1lMLTg/jquery.flot.min.js

Hope this helps!

 

[stpug]

alpha, yesterday I was moving forward a step in a fermentation profile and thought how easy it would be to simply perform a button push action to move forward (backward too maybe). Say for instance I want to move forward from SP0 to SP1, I could simply double-press a certain button. Or, move from SP0 to SP2, I could simply double-press, twice. I'm sure this is a bad idea and I just need you to show me why