Staying Healthy while Brewing

[bragona71]

just cut out food all together and only drink beer!!

 

[Psylocide]

IIFYM, ya heard?

 

[brewman !]

Tell us more about the " low carb lean meat thing" ? I'd love to hear about it.

I have a beer with 75% of my dinners. A beer is only ~$150 calories. I don't think that is enough to cause serious weight gain, especially if its offsetting a decrease in (drink) calories somewhere else.

I've been putting on weight. I gained about 25 pounds since the birth of my second child 4 years ago. I mainly chalk it up to getting less exercise. No more day hikes in the mountains. I haven't been snowboarding in 3 years. Less time to work out. I am getting some cycling with the kids in the chariot in the Summer. My weight instantly drops during those months.

Luckily I think the worst is over as far as being house bound with my kids.

 

[Calibear]

Unless your body is operating at a caloric deficit, it will not be stored as fat at all but used as energy.

In regards to weight control, caloric intake and expenditure is the only contributing factor.

Here. Caloric intake and expenditure are not the only contributing factors to weight control. You forget that muscle weighs more than fat.

Without being specific, how can anyone know, with certainty, the point you're trying to make?

If you're operating in deficit, you will lose weight. Excess, you will gain weight. I've never once seen anyone gain weight by operating at a deficit. Water weight? Sure. Anyone that thinks they can cut/bulk at the same time would be mistaken.

Anyone who knows anything about losing/gaining weight knows this. You could have cleared this up in your first post and I would have agreed with you.

 

[bobbrews]

You forget that muscle weighs more than fat.

Anyone who knows anything about losing/gaining weight knows this.

^ Myth ^


10 lbs. of fat weighs the same as 10 lbs. of muscle. Just as 10 lbs. of feathers weighs the same as 10 lbs. of bricks.

The difference is how your body carries the weight.

 

[Psylocide]

Here. Caloric intake and expenditure are not the only contributing factors to WEIGHT control. You forget that muscle weighs more than fat.

Without being specific, how can anyone know, with certainty, the point you're trying to make?

Have you ever heard of anyone starting an exercise regimen and operating at a deficit of their BMR and gaining weight? I'm curious really, never seen it ever. I've seen people that almost trade fat for muscle pound for pound but I have never seen it go the other way.

Anyone who knows anything about losing/gaining weight knows this. You could have cleared this up in your first post and I would have agreed with you.

Sorry, thought my first one was pretty clear. Although, this site is the last place I expected to get into a conversation about nutrition.

 

[Calibear]

^ Myth ^


10 lbs. of fat weighs the same as 10 lbs. of muscle. Just as 10 lbs. of feathers weighs the same as 10 lbs. of bricks.

The difference is how your body carries the weight.

... by volume.

Have you ever heard of anyone starting an exercise regimen and operating at a deficit of their BMR and gaining weight? I'm curious really, never seen it ever. I've seen people that almost trade fat for muscle pound for pound but I have never seen it go the other way.



Sorry, thought my first one was pretty clear. Although, this site is the last place I expected to get into a conversation about nutrition.

Yes I have several times, but I'm a personal trainer. Unless my clients are lying to me and eating more than they say they are, I've seen people put on muscle and gain weight while operating at a caloric deficit and losing fat. Did they lose mass? Yes. Weight? No.

Myself included. I gained 5 pounds of muscle last summer trying to get in shape for a trip I was going on, eating at a severe caloric deficit. This last for about 4 weeks before I stopped. On the other hand, I've increased calories from 1600 a day to 1900 a day and lost 6 pounds since the beginning of the year. I believe this is because I had damaged my metabolism, but I'm not getting into that discussion on here, mostly because I understand very little of it myself having just stumbled into the concept.

ETA: The last little bit isn't meant to say someone can lose weight while in caloric excess, because I still operate daily in caloric deficit. Just adding that in...

 

[Psylocide]

... by volume.



Yes I have several times, but I'm a personal trainer. Unless my clients are lying to me and eating more than they say they are, I've seen people put on muscle and gain weight while operating at a caloric deficit and losing fat. Did they lose mass? Yes. Weight? No.

Myself included. I gained 5 pounds of muscle last summer trying to get in shape for a trip I was going on, eating at a severe caloric deficit. This last for about 4 weeks before I stopped. On the other hand, I've increased calories from 1600 a day to 1900 a day and lost 6 pounds since the beginning of the year. I believe this is because I had damaged my metabolism, but I'm not getting into that discussion on here, mostly because I understand very little of it myself having just stumbled into the concept.

Ok.

If it is true recomp, then yes. Sure.

 

[hunter_le five]

^ Myth ^


10 lbs. of fat weighs the same as 10 lbs. of muscle. Just as 10 lbs. of feathers weighs the same as 10 lbs. of bricks.

The difference is how your body carries the weight.

You're right. Nothing weighs more than anything else. Everything weighs the same.

Kittens weigh as much as a fully-loaded freight train, if you have enough kittens....

 

[bobbrews]

... by volume.

Weight is measured in pounds or grams... not liters.

but I'm a personal trainer.

Oh boy.

You're right. Nothing weighs more than anything else. Everything weighs the same.

Kittens weigh as much as a fully-loaded freight train, if you have enough kittens....

Not sure if srs or if you're just missing the basic point. There is a whole ton of myth out there that has effectively taken over in the fitness world. Even nutritionists and personal trainers don't know the truth sometimes.

 

[1977Brewer]

The basic point is that an equal volume of fat weighs less than an equal volume of muscle. You're internet arguing just to internet argue.

 

[Wemet]

I find that 'dieting' will never work in the long wrong. You have to make healthy lifestyle choices. Stay active and eat whole foods. If it's a heavily processed food with tons of ingredients that you can't pronounce and loads of processed sugar, don't eat it (there's loads of sugar in most processed foods - even the ones you wouldn't think of). If it doesn't have ingredients at all, that's the best (fruits, vegetables, nuts, grains, meat, etc). You can't just rely on number of calories in and number of calories out. It's the quality of the calories in that really counts.

If you can do that, and at least stay relatively active (sitting on your butt day in and day out is incredible unhealthy, regardless of your diet), you're in good shape (pun intended).

 

[bobbrews]

The basic point is that an equal volume of fat weighs less than an equal volume of muscle. You're internet arguing just to internet argue.

No, I'm trying to dispel nonsense... much like this ^

 

[Calibear]

Weight is measured in pounds or grams... not liters.

Muscle weighs more than fat by volume. As in, if I have a liter of fat and a liter of muscle, the liter of muscle is going to weigh more. That is the point I was trying to make.

 

[hunter_le five]

Not sure if srs or if you're just missing the basic point. There is a whole ton of myth out there that has effectively taken over in the fitness world. Even nutritionists and personal trainers don't know the truth sometimes.

Saying 1 lb of fat = 1 lb of muscle is such an obvious statement that it doesn't really merit even mentioning. It's meaningless to the conversation.

When someone says "muscle weighs more than fat" they are obviously referring to volume. Same when I say cars weigh more than people.

A person can go down in clothing sizes without dropping in weight, for example. That's an example of muscle weighing more than fat with respect to volume in the context of a fitness conversation, such as this one.

It's not a myth; you're just missing the context, apparently.

 

[Calibear]

Saying 1 lb of fat = 1 lb of muscle is such an obvious statement that it doesn't really merit even mentioning. It's meaningless to the conversation.

When someone says "muscle weighs more than fat" they are obviously referring to volume. Same when I say cars weigh more than people.

A person can go down in clothing sizes without dropping in weight, for example. That's an example of muscle weighing more than fat when referring to volume.

Holy internet hallelujah delivered to me by a stick figure!

 

[Calibear]

Now, I'm waiting for someone to say that a car doesn't weigh more than a person.

 

[bobbrews]

Muscle weighs more than fat by volume. As in, if I have a liter of fat and a liter of muscle, the liter of muscle is going to weigh more. That is the point I was trying to make.

And how is that relevant to weight management in actual, useful terms?

A person can go down in clothing sizes without dropping in weight, for example. That's an example of muscle weighing more than fat with respect to volume in the context of a fitness conversation, such as this one.

Body composition and body weight are different things. You are arguing body composition here. You can have two, 150 lb. people with very different body compositions, but in the end, they both weigh the same. The way the muscle/fat is distributed may yield slightly different body compositions in two, 150 lb. people. One of those people could have lower bodyfat % than the other, but that does not mean they have heavier muscles.

Saying 1 lb of fat = 1 lb of muscle is such an obvious statement that it doesn't really merit even mentioning. It's meaningless to the conversation.

It's not a myth; you're just missing the context, apparently.

So let me get this straight... It's silly to make the statement that I made, and yet under your guidance it would be perfectly fine to make a statement like, "A liter container filled with fat or feathers is going to be lighter than the same volume liter container filled with muscle or bricks."

^Obviously... But that isn't even relevant or helpful at all.

 

[1977Brewer]

A car of the same volume as a person would look hilarious if a big dude was driving. Teehee.

 

[hunter_le five]

Now, I'm waiting for someone to say that a car doesn't weigh more than a person.

150lbs of person = 150 lbs of automobile.

 

[Yooper]

If the major component of the calories-in is high protein, good fat, and fiber, the management of in/out is easier. Unfortunately, in our current diet and snacking culture, the calories-in part tends to be carbohydrates. If your calories-in are mostly carbs, you have to work much harder on the calories-burnt side of the equation. The focus needs to be on the composition of the calories, not just the number.

We all need to eat more Bran and yogurt (fermented foods in general), and drink more water.

I don't agree with the 'eat bran' part- but that's the gist of all of my research and experiences.

High sugar consumption creates a surge in insulin, which results in a drop in blood sugar. Cortisol is then released (this is the hormone that tells our body to store fat), which causes your body to store whatever is eaten afterwards as fat.

Unless your body is operating at a caloric deficit, it will not be stored as fat at all but used as energy.

.

But see, that's where this all falls apart. We've been told that for the last 30 years- eat 'right' by cutting calories (and fat has more calories than carbs) and cutting fat. And the truth is that diabetes and prediabetes are higher than ever.

It's simply NOT true that a calorie in/calorie out works.

My husband eats more carbs than I do, but that is because if he eats less carbs he can't keep on weight even if he eats 6000 calories per day. I'm not kidding- because I eat primal/paleo, I eat probably 4000 calories per day but I have a 'normal' BMI. If I exercised, I'd be at 'athlete' level. Hormones- cortisol/insulin do change your metabolism.

Tell us more about the " low carb lean meat thing" ? I'd love to hear about it.

I don't do 'lean' meat- I mean, sometimes I eat venison which is lean- but I eat grass fed beef, lamb, etc mostly for my red meat. The idea is that you want 50%+ of your calories from healthy fats, which is satiating. (It does NOT increase your cholesterol or triglycerides, contrary to the stuff we've been taught, and dietary cholesterol has never been shown to be a factor in heart disease!).

http://www.healthy-eating-politics.com/best-diet.html is a general synopsis.

 

[Calibear]

And how is that relevant to weight management in actual, useful terms?

The point I was initially trying to make is that weight control isn't only about calories in vs. calories out. If you are rapidly gaining muscle, which weighs more by volume than fat, while losing fat, you may see an increase on the scale rather than a decrease, even if you are eating at a deficit.

If you are relatively inactive and eat below your BMR, then yes, it is probably a matter of calories in vs. calories out.

My fiance eats around 4000 calories a day and I'm pretty sure he has a hole in him somewhere because at 8 inches taller than me he weighs less than I do. He also drinks a ton a beer and I wouldn't call his diet healthy by any means. It's not just calories in/out. It's genetics, body composition, and exercise. Muscle loss/gain, fat loss/gain.

 

[Psylocide]

I don't agree with the 'eat bran' part- but that's the gist of all of my research and experiences.






But see, that's where this all falls apart. We've been told that for the last 30 years- eat 'right' by cutting calories (and fat has more calories than carbs) and cutting fat. And the truth is that diabetes and prediabetes are higher than ever.

It's simply NOT true that a calorie in/calorie out works.

My husband eats more carbs than I do, but that is because if he eats less carbs he can't keep on weight even if he eats 6000 calories per day. I'm not kidding- because I eat primal/paleo, I eat probably 4000 calories per day but I have a 'normal' BMI. If I exercised, I'd be at 'athlete' level. Hormones- cortisol/insulin do change your metabolism.




I don't do 'lean' meat- I mean, sometimes I eat venison which is lean- but I eat grass fed beef, lamb, etc mostly for my red meat. The idea is that you want 50%+ of your calories from healthy fats, which is satiating. (It does NOT increase your cholesterol or triglycerides, contrary to the stuff we've been taught, and dietary cholesterol has never been shown to be a factor in heart disease!).

http://www.healthy-eating-politics.com/best-diet.html is a general synopsis.

I would never disagree with you in regards to brewing, however, I'm going to disagree with 99% of this and saying that calories in/calories out does not work is outright wrong.

Calculators are great, but only your body can tell you what your BMR is... which includes your diet.

Are you maintaining your weight right now? If so, bump up your calories purely from Protein and Fat by, let's say 1000 cal per day. What do you think would happen?

Would you maintain your weight, or would you gain weight? Alternately, cut your cals by 1000 per day. Do you think you would lose weight?

 

[Yooper]

The point I was initially trying to make is that weight control isn't only about calories in vs. calories out. If you are rapidly gaining muscle, which weighs more by volume than fat, while losing fat, you may see an increase on the scale rather than a decrease, even if you are eating at a deficit.

If you are relatively inactive and eat below your BMR, then yes, it is probably a matter of calories in vs. calories out.

My fiance eats around 4000 calories a day and I'm pretty sure he has a hole in him somewhere because at 8 inches taller than me he weighs less than I do. He also drinks a ton a beer and I wouldn't call his diet healthy by any means. It's not just calories in/out. It's genetics, body composition, and exercise. Muscle loss/gain, fat loss/gain.

Yes, body composition is a huge part of this! Like I said, my husband (at 150 and 6' tall) eats as much as 6000 calories per day. He's a skinny guy.

I used to follow a "good diet" and eat less than 1500 calories a day and struggled to stay slim.

It was a huge deal for me to do 180 degrees and totally change- but I did it for 30 days first. I was so addicted to carbs (whole wheat spaghetti, one cup, was a mainstay of my diet) that I felt sick for the first 28 days. But, suddenly, a switched flipped, and I started feeling great. I starting bursting with energy, my skin looked great, my hair shone, and my eyes sparkled. I had no afternoon slumps anymore. That alone kept me going for the next 5 years.

Incidentally, I did lose some weight and kept it off. I went from a size 8+ to a size 4, because I only lost about 10 pounds but my body composition changed. I started sleeping better.

The only thing that I've done that other 'low carb' folks probably don't is limit my beer consumption. If I gave up beer a few days a week, I'd probably look slimmer and lose the rest of my belly. But I just am not willing to do that!

I eat incredibly well- lamb steaks on the grill with a huge grilled veggie basket tonight, for example. The hardest things for me to give up were bread, pasta, and ketchup. Eliminating sugar from my diet in all forms (besides veggies) was the toughest part- people have no idea how much sugar they consume!

 

[Calibear]

I would never disagree with you in regards to brewing, however, I'm going to disagree with 99% of this and saying that calories in/calories out does not work is outright wrong.

Calculators are great, but only your body can tell you what your BMR is... which includes your diet.

Are you maintaining your weight right now? If so, bump up your calories purely from Protein and Fat by, let's say 1000 cal per day. What do you think would happen?

Would you maintain your weight, or would you gain weight? Alternately, cut your cals by 1000 per day. Do you think you would lose weight?

While I do agree with you, I believe you are oversimplifying. There is a lot that goes into the whole scheme of weight gain/loss that I believe a lot of people don't understand.

Anyways, if I want a beer, I drink a beer. No use denying myself something that I truly love. I'm going to buy a shirt that says "I workout so I can drink beer."

 

[1977Brewer]

While I do agree with you, I believe you are oversimplifying. There is a lot that goes into the whole scheme of weight gain/loss that I believe a lot of people don't understand.

Anyways, if I want a beer, I drink a beer. No use denying myself something that I truly love. I'm going to buy a shirt that says "I workout so I can drink beer."

Funny, I drink beer as an excuse not to. "Cant, drunk."

 

[jleiii]

I'm pretty small, and at nearly 51 it's more work to be fit than it used to be!

I don't want to start a huge debate, but the whole 'calories in, calories out' thing has been debunked by many scientists and doctors I respect. It has to do much more with your body and the way it burns fuel. This is a reason why Atkins diets work- but people can't stay on them.

I can relate to this myself. For my first 20 yrs or so I topped off at about 140 (5'8"), yet I ate anything and everything I wanted. In my teen years I used to spend a month or so with my Aunt and Uncle during the summer, and they were traumatized by my appetite as compared to their 4 girls. By my last year in the navy (1986) I was up to 160, but I drank more, and ate less healthy food. In the intervening years I've ranged from 160-170, continuing to eat pretty much anything and everything (fairly lean diet, except for my Hot Fries). Since I started brewing 2.5 yrs ago, it's made no appreciable difference, but I know I've been drinking more than I used to, but still not over doing it. I attribute it to a very high/active metabolism. While I don't work out, I am very active, non-stop.
I just hope I don't burn out like the little high energy dogs do. I am regularly mistaken for being ~15 yrs younger than I am, so I certainly can't complain!! I hope I don't have a proverbial wall headed my way any too soon! My father also looks good for pushing 80 as well. Or maybe old people don't look so old to me anymore.....

 

[Psylocide]

While I do agree with you, I believe you are oversimplifying. There is a lot that goes into the whole scheme of weight gain/loss that I believe a lot of people don't understand.

Anyways, if I want a beer, I drink a beer. No use denying myself something that I truly love. I'm going to buy a shirt that says "I workout so I can drink beer."

Over simplifying is what 95% of the population needs... they've been bombarded with "don't eat this," "white foods are bad," "only eat a diet high in olestra," etc. etc.

Anyway, the rest is for the scientists to argue and if they come to a conclusive "nutrition rules guide," then I'll just stick to what I know as fact.

But... discussing nutrition is like discussing whether or not to use glass carboys or transfer to secondary or what-have-you.

Lots of anecdotal evidence, not a whole lot of peer-reviewed scientific fact.

I would love to see a study in which several people operating at a caloric deficit over a large period of time at sub 10% body fat percentage would gain weight. That would blow my mind and I would bow out of nutrition studies for good.

 

[Yooper]

I would never disagree with you in regards to brewing, however, I'm going to disagree with 99% of this and saying that calories in/calories out does not work is outright wrong.

Calculators are great, but only your body can tell you what your BMR is... which includes your diet.

Are you maintaining your weight right now? If so, bump up your calories purely from Protein and Fat by, let's say 1000 cal per day. What do you think would happen?

Would you maintain your weight, or would you gain weight? Alternately, cut your cals by 1000 per day. Do you think you would lose weight?

Yes, if I was eating, say, 2000 calories per day and cut 1000 calories, I probably would lose weight. But anybody who is starving WILL lose weight. I'm not saying that calories don't matter- of course they do in that if you restrict them you will lose weight. But most people can't live that way. So I'm talking about a way that doesn't count calories, because they simply don't matter if you eat the right foods. If you want to lose body fat (not just the actual weight), this is good to know.

My point is that calorie restriction only works in drastic measures. I eat more like 4500 calories per day now- so if I cut 1000 calories per day I wouldn't lose weight probably. That's still not a calorie deficit in the traditional 'dieting' sense. I can eat far, far, more calories and not gain weight but I get full too fast.

If you eat 1500 calories of low-fat yogurt and fruit, diet sodas, etc, and I eat my regular diet of paleo/primal eating (no low fat anything, no sugar, approx 4000 calories per day), I will still burn it off. You may or may not. It really depends on what you eat- people who are on the 'low fat, high carb' diet are simply fatter than people who eschew those 'diets'. My body fat level is pretty low, considering I never formally exercise.

If I go out and have pizza, I gain two pounds. That's not from calories, though- it's from the carbs. If I eat a sauce, and I gain weight the next day, I can ask a friend, "Oh, what was in the sauce?" and they will say, "oh, a cup of sugar..." and I knew it! But if I eat my normal foods, I don't gain an ounce. And I eat a TON of food. Seriously- more than most people could ever fathom.

I know it flies against every single thing we've been taught in the last 30 years! But I firmly believe that we (health care professionals) are killing people in huge numbers with what we are teaching via the food pyramid and the low fat myths.

This is all very oversimplified, as it's not easy to go through all of the biochemistry in a short (or even a long!) post. But the gist is here, and you can do your own research to debunk or prove it: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/7-common-calorie-myths-we-should-all-stop-believing/#axzz3ShZvWzbb

I'm going to bow out of this thread, as I know this can get contentious. And I'm an admin of a brewing forum, not a nutrition forum and don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

But everyone who wants to be healthy- do your own research! If you are convinced that you can find complete health by your own means then do it- and don't be disuaded by so-called experts.

 

[Calibear]

Yes, body composition is a huge part of this! Like I said, my husband (at 150 and 6' tall) eats as much as 6000 calories per day. He's a skinny guy.

I used to follow a "good diet" and eat less than 1500 calories a day and struggled to stay slim.

It was a huge deal for me to do 180 degrees and totally change- but I did it for 30 days first. I was so addicted to carbs (whole wheat spaghetti, one cup, was a mainstay of my diet) that I felt sick for the first 28 days. But, suddenly, a switched flipped, and I started feeling great. I starting bursting with energy, my skin looked great, my hair shone, and my eyes sparkled. I had no afternoon slumps anymore. That alone kept me going for the next 5 years.

Incidentally, I did lose some weight and kept it off. I went from a size 8+ to a size 4, because I only lost about 10 pounds but my body composition changed. I started sleeping better.

The only thing that I've done that other 'low carb' folks probably don't is limit my beer consumption. If I gave up beer a few days a week, I'd probably look slimmer and lose the rest of my belly. But I just am not willing to do that!

I eat incredibly well- lamb steaks on the grill with a huge grilled veggie basket tonight, for example. The hardest things for me to give up were bread, pasta, and ketchup. Eliminating sugar from my diet in all forms (besides veggies) was the toughest part- people have no idea how much sugar they consume!

Thank you! Body composition and recomposition is key. I lost and kept off 25 pounds and lost 4 dress sizes in 6 months. Then all of a sudden I couldn't lose weight anymore. I increased my workouts, decreased my calories, nothing worked. I increased my calories and VIOLA! I lost 6 pounds in about 6 weeks and started seeing definition in my mid-section.