Starting selling your beer?

[rainbow]

Hi,

We have done a few all grain brews now with quite a bit of success and are now wondering about selling it at the local farmers market. What do we need to do? Does anyone sell on a small scale? Do you have to set up as a business and will this cost a lot?

Thanks

 

[Professor Frink]

First and foremost you need a liquor license.

 

[joebou4860]

you will want to check with your local governments as the rules on this vary from state to state and even county to county.

 

[Waldo]

Short answer is don't even think about it, you will spend a small fortune just getting through all of the legal red tape.

 

[killian]

I wish you could sell homebrew but they make the laws so damn strict. you need a lot of capital to brew for sale.

 

[EdWort]

Yep, lots of rules, laws, and such to watch out for. The 100 gallon allowance you have for homebrew is for personal consumption, not for sale.

You don't want the BTAF kickin your doors in, taking your beer and hauling you off in handcuffs.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

In my state (Ohio) a license to manufacture and sell beer is $3,975... annually.

 

[mr x]

Yeah, I've thought about it too. I'm sure there are creative ways to skirt the law especially with way-out in the country farmer's markets. I don't think there are laws preventing me from giving away beer to my friends on my property. We become friends when you buy one of my sandwiches,etc. lol

I'm sure it isn't worth the trouble. Last thing you need is someone getting plastered and running over a kid on a bicycle...

 

[RadicalEd]

Seems like a strange number; not so much as to really milk a brewery, but enough to keep the little guy from starting up. I guess your state legislatures like BMC...

 

[david_42]

There's one guy locally who is brewing commercially with a 20 gallon system. I also know of a couple of 1 barrel houses. Licenses are a around $1000 and, of course, there are inspections, testing, taxes, etc. Each batch has to be tested for ABV, since that is the basis for the taxes. Even though Oregon has one of the worst licensing & distribution systems in the country, that hasn't stopped the craft industry.

I'm fairly certain you can't give brew away if you are selling something else. I KNOW you can't have fermenters bubbling away in the kitchen of your pizzeria. Guy got busted for that last year.

 

[mr x]

Maybe temporary permits would be a more effective way to go.

 

[redneckbeagle]

Start a private pub, open to members only and charge a membership fee.

 

[MikeRLynch]

Start a private pub, open to members only and charge a membership fee.

That's a curious idea, veeery interesting. My friend just moved into a house with a 2 thousand square foot garage (essentially a small wharehouse) attached, and we're starting to think some big ass fermentors would look mighty nice in all that space. Only problem is of course capitol and basically the law in general getting in the way of opening commercially.

I also had an interesting idea the other day, what about contract brewing? If your friends buy the equipment, materials, and everything else to make a few batches of beer, and you simply use your know-how and time to make it for them, is that considered distribution? Technically they're buying the materials for making beer, not the beer itself. And they can buy their own kegs/bottles, drink the beer, then bring them back with a check for the next batch (at premium prices of course )

thoughts?

mike

 

[AlaskaBrewing]

They have places where you buy the kits/equipment and make your own wine. They even have a warm place for the fermenter. You just show up and do all the work at the shop. Even bottling. I wonder how they do it? Might be something you could look in to.

 

[MikeRLynch]

yeah, that's brew on premisis places. I was thinking of actually brewing my own recipes and bottling/kegging for others.

just an idea

mike

 

[brewt00l]

Something you have to consider in any discussion about selling your brew or brewing services is that you have to comply with both federal and state regulations/requirements.

Obviously state requirements vary and I know that some of the schemes proposed in this thread are not legal in my home state.

Here is a starting point for the Federal end of the red tape:

http://ttb.gov/beer/index.shtml

http://ttb.gov/beer/qualify.shtml

 

[ohiobrewtus]

That's a curious idea, veeery interesting. My friend just moved into a house with a 2 thousand square foot garage (essentially a small wharehouse) attached, and we're starting to think some big ass fermentors would look mighty nice in all that space. Only problem is of course capitol and basically the law in general getting in the way of opening commercially.

I also had an interesting idea the other day, what about contract brewing? If your friends buy the equipment, materials, and everything else to make a few batches of beer, and you simply use your know-how and time to make it for them, is that considered distribution? Technically they're buying the materials for making beer, not the beer itself. And they can buy their own kegs/bottles, drink the beer, then bring them back with a check for the next batch (at premium prices of course )

thoughts?

mike

There may be a bit of a loophole there, but I'm guessing that the ATF and you local state are going to find a way to make this very difficult.

I see what you're saying. Technically you're not doing anything differently than a LHBS does. You charge for the ingredients and the labor for making the beer (if you can get away with doing that) and not the beer itself.

I might do that for some close friends, but I wouldn't want to advertise that I'm doing that. I think you'd be asking for some kind of raid involving a full cavity search.

 

[TexLaw]

This is no time or place to get cute. State laws on this topic vary wildly, but they tend to have one thing in common: they are minefields for the small scale brewer. You better know what those laws are and obey them to the letter. The large scale operations are huge lobbies, and the laws and enforcement efforts reflect that.

Back when there was a brew on premises place in Houston, I remember they had to deal with some tricky regulations. They had to be fairly careful about what they suggested and how much they assisted with the brewing. The customer also had to pitch the yeast, otherwise the store was considered a contract brewer, and that brought in a whole bunch of extra red tape.


TL

 

[Neomich]

My advice, find some reliable and trustworthy people and just make enough to cover your own costs. Basically you'll have free beer. Anything above a few six packs and you're probably asking for lots and lots of hassle.

 

[faber]

I have a friend, the guy who taught me how to brew, who has an abundance of kegs. He has a deal with about a dozen other friends that, if they buy their own CO2, he will happily hook them up with full kegs. They pitch in by buying him sacks of barley, new brewing toys, more kegs, etc., every now and then. He's got quite the home brewery now. No one's keping track, but everyone is pretty happy with the arrangement.

Everyone is of course grateful, and they try to clean his kegs when they bring them back. (Of course, he scolds them for doing so--he wants to know everything that goes in those things.) His wife is just happy that there is now more than one place for us to drink homebrew and watch the/a game and that his hobby is self-sufficient, or very near it.

I think that is probably about as "enterprising" as a homebrewer can get legally.

 

[FlyingHorse]

I have a friend, the guy who taught me how to brew, who has an abundance of kegs. He has a deal with about a dozen other friends that, if they buy their own CO2, he will happily hook them up with full kegs. They pitch in by buying him sacks of barley, new brewing toys, more kegs, etc., every now and then. He's got quite the home brewery now. No one's keping track, but everyone is pretty happy with the arrangement.

Everyone is of course grateful, and they try to clean his kegs when they bring them back. (Of course, he scolds them for doing so--he wants to know everything that goes in those things.) His wife is just happy that there is now more than one place for us to drink homebrew and watch the/a game and that his hobby is self-sufficient, or very near it.

I think that is probably about as "enterprising" as a homebrewer can get legally.

I doubt there's anything "legal" about that arrangement. In the eyes of the law, your friend is selling beer. The fact that the currency is bartered ingredients and equipment rather than greenbacks is meaningless.

Will anyone go after him? Probably not (but he'd better keep those 12 friends happy )

If they did, could they convict? Again, probably not without one of the friends' help. Or maybe the text of your post, since you've more or less ID'd him and laid out his whole operation.

I wouldn't risk it, though.

 

[cheezydemon]

Was that the answer you wanted?Lol. You also can't live in a dry county. Otherwise you have to have a brick&mortar in a wet county to do business from, and you still can't brew in your basement and sell from your place of business.

 

[BeerAg]

Let me spell this out for you: follow the money.

1) exicse tax rates are high
2) governments really, really like taxes
3) governments heavily regulate selling alcohol to make sure that you pay your taxes
4) if you skirt the regulations, you don't pay taxes. that makes government mad. see #2

Don't try to sell beer, unless you talk to your local government and take care of things to their satisfaction. Homebrewers nation wide will appriciate it.

 

[faber]

I doubt there's anything "legal" about that arrangement. In the eyes of the law, your friend is selling beer. The fact that the currency is bartered ingredients and equipment rather than greenbacks is meaningless.

Will anyone go after him? Probably not (but he'd better keep those 12 friends happy )

If they did, could they convict? Again, probably not without one of the friends' help. Or maybe the text of your post, since you've more or less ID'd him and laid out his whole operation.

I wouldn't risk it, though.

It's never a one-for-one exchange. He has never asked for anything, nor has he ever denied anyone a keg becasue they didn't chip in for the last sack of barley. He doesn't keep track of who contributed what. Hell, he doesn't even know. But when it's time to hang out, talk smack, watch a game, whatever, he knows a keg of one of his will be there.

Surely a good prosecutor could make something of it, but he wouldn't be from this part of the country.

But in case he doesn't know (his son is an L3), I'll share what this thread has generated. Thanks to all.

You know a lot of us are reading this and thinking, "Hmmm......" What homebrewer hasn't thought of going pro?

Cheers, gents

 

[trainfever]

I read somewhere that as homebrewers, we are not allowed to sell our beer and we are only allowed to brew 200 gallons a year. Thats a lot of beer for one person to drink. I guess they figured we wouldnt be drinking it alone.
I also read that it was President Jimmy Carter who legalized home brewing back in 1978. I always liked him, we share the same birthday.

 

[Yooper]

I read somewhere that as homebrewers, we are not allowed to sell our beer and we are only allowed to brew 200 gallons a year. Thats a lot of beer for one person to drink. I guess they figured we wouldnt be drinking it alone.

It's 100 gallons per legal adult, up to 200 gallons per household, per year. Not 200 each.

 

[southern brewer]

Hi,

We have done a few all grain brews now with quite a bit of success and are now wondering about selling it at the local farmers market. What do we need to do? Does anyone sell on a small scale? Do you have to set up as a business and will this cost a lot?

Thanks

Federal regulations require that if you are going to make beer for sale, you must file with the federal government to become a brewery. and all your brewing has to be done on commercial property (they won't allow you to make it at home).
after i learned that, i stopped looking into it. Then there is the taxes that have to be done. Lets not forget the bond that is required by the government that you have to pay in the process of getting your brewing license (10% up front of your estimated yearly tax revenue).
And all that is only federal. on top of that you would have to check your state's regulations and abide by them as well.

 

[agentgonzo]

A trick that a friend used a while ago was to set a keg up on the counter of a local pub (with the landlord's permission of course) and give it away for free. Anyone could go up and help themselves. Then he just put a collection pot next to it. Can't remember how much he made for the barrel and not sure that would work out at a farmer's market.

 

[killian]

in new york I think the law is giving away a six pack per person per year is the limit

 

[skifast1]

You don't want the BTAF kickin your doors in, taking your beer and hauling you off in handcuffs.

...unless you're into that kind of thing...