Starters - dump or decant?

[BigB]

I usually take a few swigs from the decanted beer from my starters. It gives me an early clue if there's anything horribly wrong.

But more than that, it's incredibly educational to see what flavors the yeast contributes when it's not competing with all the specialty grains and hops.

Great idea! I never considered this, but often wondered of a good way to isolate the yeast flavor. Now I have one!

 

[BigB]

So is there anybody who pitches their starters at high krausen????

I always pitch at high krausen with 1-1.2L starters. Bigger than that I let it finish fermenting, refrigerate, and then decant. However, to be fair, most of my beers are 1.060 OG and under. So, I don't make too many 2L starters.

 

[passedpawn]

I make huge starter and I always decant. I decant while my chiller is running. I pour off ALL the beer from the starter, then run new cooled wort into my starter to help swirl it into suspension and aid the pour to the carboy.

 

[yellowthere]

For those who worry about putting oxidized starter wort into their beer, do you not use O2 with a stone? what's the difference?

I make a starter the day before pitching. In the aerobic phase, the yeast are only reproducting, it's only after the O2 is used up, in the anaerobic phase, that alchol is produced. If you are using a stir plate for 24 hours I don't think alcohol is produced, thus it is not being truely oxidized, just aerated. I don't see any negative effects from doing this, other than impacting the grain bill if the starter is big enough.

Am I missing something?

 

[passedpawn]

For those who worry about putting oxidized starter wort into their beer, do you not use O2 with a stone? what's the difference?

I make a starter the day before pitching. In the aerobic phase, the yeast are only reproducting, it's only after the O2 is used up, in the anaerobic phase, that alchol is produced. If you are using a stir plate for 24 hours I don't think alcohol is produced, thus it is not being truely oxidized, just aerated. I don't see any negative effects from doing this, other than impacting the grain bill if the starter is big enough.

Am I missing something?

I grow starters from a small (10ml) test tube of yeast. It takes 2 weeks and about 5 stepups to grow my yeast. By then I've made almost 2 gallons of really bad beer. Sometimes it is quite stanky. I'm decanting that.

 

[ajwillys]

For those who worry about putting oxidized starter wort into their beer, do you not use O2 with a stone? what's the difference?

I make a starter the day before pitching. In the aerobic phase, the yeast are only reproducting, it's only after the O2 is used up, in the anaerobic phase, that alchol is produced. If you are using a stir plate for 24 hours I don't think alcohol is produced, thus it is not being truely oxidized, just aerated. I don't see any negative effects from doing this, other than impacting the grain bill if the starter is big enough.

Am I missing something?

Yes, I do aerate wort, but there is a big difference. Any wort aerated after the first 12 hours is being oxidized. When making a starter, I use a stir plate to continually get as much air in as possible. This is oxidizing the starter. And yes, you are making alcohol. If I'm ever in doubt, the way I tell if my starter is done is with my hydrometer.

 

[yellowthere]

Yes, I do aerate wort, but there is a big difference. Any wort aerated after the first 12 hours is being oxidized. When making a starter, I use a stir plate to continually get as much air in as possible. This is oxidizing the starter. And yes, you are making alcohol. If I'm ever in doubt, the way I tell if my starter is done is with my hydrometer.

Well, if after 12-18 hour when alcohol is being created, CO2 is also being produced, CO2 is more dense than O2 and CO2 is constantly being continually; therefore, O2 will not be a problem for the remaining 6-12 hours that it sits on the stir plate after alcohol production begins. It's never been a problem for me. I prefer to keep my yeast active until pitching, unless it's a huge starter that will F with the grain bill. Everyone has a different way to do this, evidently I'm in the minority here.

 

[yellowthere]

I grow starters from a small (10ml) test tube of yeast. It takes 2 weeks and about 5 stepups to grow my yeast. By then I've made almost 2 gallons of really bad beer. Sometimes it is quite stanky. I'm decanting that.

your yeast are way, way spoiled. that is way too much work for a starter for me.

 

[DKershner]

your yeast are way, way spoiled. that is way too much work for a starter for me.

It's really a question of whether the extra steps are worth $6 to you. Only really takes 20 minutes extra or so to do those tiny starters.

 

[yellowthere]

It's really a question of whether the extra steps are worth $6 to you. Only really takes 20 minutes extra or so to do those tiny starters.

I meant that as a joke, not a criticism. To each his own.

 

[passedpawn]

your yeast are way, way spoiled. that is way too much work for a starter for me.

I happen to agree with you, and recently I am re-assessing my yeast strategies. I have bought a lot of dry yeasts and I am going to begin using them whenever possible.

However, for a few beer styles (belgians, hefe's) I will continue to make my foo foo fungus fondue. It's not really a lot of work, but it requires more advanced planning than I care to do.

 

[Belmont]

I find it hard to fit in brew days and my wife is already convinced that I'm far too obsessed with brewing. She's probably right. If I can get away with using a dry yeast I do it. I've gone from all-grain to extract when I can as well. With 3 kids I have to cut down my time spent brewing considerably.

 

[yellowthere]

I happen to agree with you, and recently I am re-assessing my yeast strategies. I have bought a lot of dry yeasts and I am going to begin using them whenever possible.

However, for a few beer styles (belgians, hefe's) I will continue to make my foo foo fungus fondue. It's not really a lot of work, but it requires more advanced planning than I care to do.

Dry yeast are great with most styles, not all but most. They are so damn easy too. I even had really good luck with safelager 189. You can get it at american brewmaster. that's what I plan on using for all my future lagers.

 

[magnj]

I usually do 4 cup starters, sometimes 6 and just pitch the whole thing. Sometimes it's at high krausen, other times somewhere else in the process. I don't think I'd pitch 2L though...that is a lot.

 

[ajwillys]

Just wanted to follow up here since I was the first one to get completely disgusted at the idea of *tasting* the starter beer (can't really call it wort anymore). I made a Kolsch starter about 3 days ago, had it in the fridge for about 36 hours and just decanted. I poured myself a bit and gave it a taste.

Observations:
1) Not good, but tastes eerily similar to something I've paid a buck for and came in a can with a blue ribbon.
2) Very little to no hop bitterness, flavor, or aroma. :fro:

OK, enough with the jokes. I used extra light DME (as I do with all starters) and it tasted like basically nothing. I did however get a fair bit of esters from the Kolsch yeast. I now see that this is an extremely valuable tasting tool, especially for yeasts such as Kolsch where its supposed to impart some flavor, but not overwhelming flavors (wheat, belgian yeasts) to really get an idea of exactly what the yeast is bringing to the party. Now that I know, I can see using this yeast in many more styles, just by imagining what this flavor goes with. I'm now very happy I ridiculed someone in this this thread for drinking their starter! :rockin:

 

[Frank99]

I've decanted only because it's a little more convenient to refrigerate and have some more flexibility with when I'm going to brew. I have 3 kids like the guy above and my son is always bugging me about when we're going to be "beering." Get them involved, they like this sort of stuff, especially the yeast that "fart" through the airlock...