Starter question

[Burtlake1985]

I recently bought ingredients to make a big double IPA. OG is expected to be at 1.100. MY LHBS advised I make a starter however it wasn't absolutely necessary with my yeast vile, however i guess I never really knew what the process for a starter really was until I did some reading on and it sounds like I may not have enough time to make my starter before wanting to actually pitch.

Basically I was going to make my Starter tonight and hopefully have it ready by next day. However between making the starter and pitching I'm looking at a time frame of about 15 hours.

Question being is this really enough time for the starter to do what it needs to do before pitching? I'm using a WLP001 for my yeast.

Any words of wisdom?

 

[kombat]

You definitely need either a starter, or more vials of yeast.

One 5 gallon batch of ale with an O.G. of 1.100 will require roughly 400 billion yeast cells (4 billion cells per point of O.G. per 5 gallon batch) to properly ferment. Anything less is technically underpitching and can result in a sluggish start to fermentation and unpleasant off-flavours.

A single vial of 100% viable liquid yeast will yield 100 billion cells. However, you can use a calculator (like Mr. Malty) to approximate the actual viability of your yeast based on the production date stamped on the vial. Suffice to say, it will be somewhat less than 100%. If it is, say, 80%, then it will only deliver 80 billion active yeast cells. Thus, you would need 5 vials of yeast to achieve the correct pitching rate.

Needless to say, that can get expensive, quickly. That same website (Mr. Malty) can also tell you how big of a starter and how many steps you would need to build up the required number of yeast cells from 1 or 2 vials.

All that to say, there's no way an appropriately-sized starter will be ready in 15 hours. They take 18-24 hours on a stir plate, and up to 36 hours without a stir plate. Per step. If you're determined to brew in 15 hours and you want to pitch the correct number of yeast cells, your only option is to pitch 5 vials.

Also, with a beer that big, it's crucial to ensure you thoroughly aerate the wort. I mean REALLY aerate it.

 

[Burtlake1985]

Thank you very much for the help! I guess I will do the starter on sunday and brew on wednesday, this should give my starter enough time.

You bring up another good question about Aerating...My primary is a plastic bucket, should I stir a lot to aerate or can I just pick the bucket up with a friend and just shake it? What would be a recommendation for this?

 

[Rockn_M]

You can shake it or pour it back and fourth from one container to another. Make sure both are sanitized properly.

Shaking and pouring will only get you about 8ppm of oxygen which will work. One thing you might want to consider is getting oxygen from the hardware store and a 5 micron airstone so you can dissolve even more oxygen.

 

[Jayhem]

You are going to need a large starter for that high gravity wort!

use www.yeastcalc.com if you are pitching a white labs vial or Wyeast smack pack. My guess is you need at least a 3L starter wort and stir plate to get enough cells with 1 vial.

Edit: yeastcalc looks like it's down. Mr. Malty will do the same thing but I prefer yeastcalc.

 

[Jayhem]

You are going to need a large starter for that high gravity wort!

use www.yeastcalc.com if you are pitching a white labs vial or Wyeast smack pack. My guess is you need at least a 3L starter wort and stir plate to get enough cells with 1 vial.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

You are going to need a large starter for that high gravity wort!

use www.yeastcalc.com if you are pitching a white labs vial or Wyeast smack pack. My guess is you need at least a 3L starter wort and stir plate to get enough cells with 1 vial.

Yeastcalc has been gone for a while now - a month or so, I think.

 

[Burtlake1985]

ok great! Shaking is what I will do.

1. Now do I shake first then pitch or Pitch then shake??

2. I only have access to LME for my starter, how much more should I add to compensate for not using DME?

Sorry for all the noob questions...this is my first BIG brew.

 

[Rockn_M]

No worries. I'm not sure about the LME for DME compensations but for the shaking you want to do that prior to pitching your yeast. Adding oxygen after fermentation has started can cause oxidation which isn't very tasty.

 

[sfish]

try http://web.archive.org/web/20140108174714/http://yeastcalc.com/

For the yeast calc I picked this up from another member.

You shake your starter very often as possible to remove co2 and add O2. leave it on the counter and when ever you walk by ~ shake.

 

[Burtlake1985]

So yesterday I made my first starter for my first BIG beer. I made a 2L starter and after shaking it all day when I walk by it, I woke up today some of it had foamed over the top (maybe an oz's worth). I sanitized everything and put a new piece of foil on for a cap. Should I be worried about anything?

Also I plan on brewing wednesday, can I just let my starter sit out until tuesday night and then put it in the fridge over night to let the yeast settle over night?

I'm also thinking I'll add a 2nd step to my starter tonight to build the count up more to be on the safe side.

Any thoughts??