Starter for a Pilsner (lager) Question

[osagedr]

Would be easier to give advice if you knew what the gravity was.

I am in general agreement with Yooper's advice to rack as soon as d-rest is over; having said that my own d-rests have occasionally lasted quite awhile before I rack & crash.

 

[Brulosopher]

Would be easier to give advice if you knew what the gravity was.

I am in general agreement with Yooper's advice to rack as soon as d-rest is over; having said that my own d-rests have occasionally lasted quite awhile before I rack & crash.

Yeah, I figured this would be suggested. Perhaps I'll take a reading tonight. At what point is it a good idea to raise temp? I've heard 1.025 or less.

 

[osagedr]

Yeah, I figured this would be suggested. Perhaps I'll take a reading tonight. At what point is it a good idea to raise temp? I've heard 1.025 or less.

You hear different suggestions, but between five and ten gravity points above expected FG is a decent rule of thumb. If your expected FG is in the low teens, 1.020 is perfect, but I'd rather do one at 1.030 than once FG has been reached. It protects you from diacetyl and helps ensure a strong finish to fermentation.

 

[Brulosopher]

You hear different suggestions, but between five and ten gravity points above expected FG is a decent rule of thumb. If your expected FG is in the low teens, 1.020 is perfect, but I'd rather do one at 1.030 than once FG has been reached. It protects you from diacetyl and helps ensure a strong finish to fermentation.

Thanks!!

 

[Brulosopher]

Just pulled a sample to test SG; we're at about 1.020 or so... I just raised the temp to 60F (it was at about 53F) and plan to leave it there until about 4:30am Sunday morning (when we leave for the airport), at which point I'll set the Ranco to 33F. The kreusen was HUGE and the wort was clearly still fermenting strongly. I've heard WLP800 can take a bit to really get going, even with a starter (I know, I know). Either way, I'm still not getting any sulfur at all, and the sample, while pretty sweet, was delicious! I'm pretty excited to get back next week and start lagering this beauty. Thanks everyone for your help!

 

[osagedr]

Can't remember how long you said you were away for, but I'd just leave it at 60 until you get back. Then rack it and crash it.

 

[Brulosopher]

Can't remember how long you said you were away for, but I'd just leave it at 60 until you get back. Then rack it and crash it.

9 days. Seriously?

 

[SpeedYellow]

9 days. Seriously?

Yup, it may be better to just leave it at 60F because (a) you may not have reached FG by tomorrow and (b) by cold crashing it, you're telling the yeast to stop working. OTOH, leaving at 60f for 9 days won't hurt anything.

 

[Brulosopher]

Yup, it may be better to just leave it at 60F because (a) you may not have reached FG by tomorrow and (b) by cold crashing it, you're telling the yeast to stop working. OTOH, leaving at 60f for 9 days won't hurt anything.

Right on, that's the plan! Thanks for being so helpful, pal.

 

[osagedr]

Yep 9 days is no problem.

 

[Brulosopher]

Get home tomorrow... excited!

 

[Brulosopher]

Alright... so I kegged this puppy on Wednesday night, purged the keg of O2 then pumped it with 20 psi of CO2, disconnected the CO2 line and placed the keg in my 34F freezer for a week or so of lagering. I've got company coming for my son's birthday next weekend and I'm hoping it is decently lagered and carbonated by then. In all these years, this is not only my first lager, but my first single malt beer as well. I'm really excited to taste the finished product.

Throughout this process, I've realized making ales is more my speed... mainly because I'm incredibly impatient and I share my beer with a lot of folks, so it goes too quickly. With ales, my pipeline is easier to build up. I have a WLP Munich Helles vial just waiting to be used... we'll see if I ever get to it.

Thanks for all the help, folks. I'll be sure to let you know how it turns out!

 

[SpeedYellow]

Sorry to say, but a week of lagering is simply nowhere near enough. So resist the temptation to serve it...it will get so much better with a few more weeks lagering. These lagers get sort-of drinkable after 4 weeks, but aren't at their best until around 8 weeks or so. Rule of thumb is a day for every point of SG.

 

[Yooper]

Sorry to say, but a week of lagering is simply nowhere near enough. So resist the temptation to serve it...it will get so much better with a few more weeks lagering. These lagers get sort-of drinkable after 4 weeks, but aren't at their best until around 8 weeks or so. Rule of thumb is a day for every point of SG.

I always go by 1 week for every 8-10 points of OG. So, for a lager with an OG of 1.050, I'd go 5 weeks at a minimum. For a higher OG beer, I'd go longer of course. I usually lager for 8-12 weeks, depending on what I'm making.

I'm sure that a week of lagering will clear the beer quite a bit so it may be pretty clear. But it won't have that typical "crisp" lager finish. During lagering, polyphenols drop out and that is what gives that typical distinctive crisp lager flavor.

 

[Brulosopher]

Thanks for the tips! My plan now is to let everyone drink what's on tap now (2 will blow soon, the other is full and bright) and let it lager longer... then refrain from lager brewing until I have a larger kegerator.

On that note... anyone in Cali in the market for a rad 3 tap kegerator? I'm selling mine and building a 6 tap keezer

 

[Darwin18]

Alright... so I kegged this puppy on Wednesday night, purged the keg of O2 then pumped it with 20 psi of CO2, disconnected the CO2 line and placed the keg in my 34F freezer for a week or so of lagering.

Any reason for not carbing the lager while you're lagering it, besides potential space issues? You can do both and save on some time.

 

[Brulosopher]

Any reason for not carbing the lager while you're lagering it, besides potential space issues? You can do both and save on some time.

That's what I'm doing!

 

[SpeedYellow]

That's what I'm doing!

Not if you disconnected the gas line, you're not. One shot of co2 isn't going to carbonate the entire keg.

 

[Brulosopher]

Not if you disconnected the gas line, you're not. One shot of co2 isn't going to carbonate the entire keg.

Oh, I know this. All of my taps are taken, so I "over-charged" the keg just until one of my faucets is free (soon). I've done this many times with great success. Since it won't be ready for a few more weeks, I figure I have little to worry about regarding carbonation, since it only takes a week. Cheers!

 

[jeffd10]

My 2-6 row with Live ants in the Flaked Corn ....needs another month.. very light in color. tried it tonight after 9 days on gas... Big time Meh.. maybe the Corny/Stella taste will mellow with a tic more time...Brulosopher did I mention the Marzanless Octoberfest at my place??

Soon

 

[Brulosopher]

My 2-6 row with Live ants in the Flaked Corn ....needs another month.. very light in color. tried it tonight after 9 days on gas... Big time Meh.. maybe the Corny/Stella taste will mellow with a tic more time...Brulosopher did I mention the Marzanless Octoberfest at my place??

Soon

Very soon, my friend

I'm thinking my Pils still needs another month or so as well. We can have a lager party... and brew some ale.

 

[osagedr]

I figure I have little to worry about regarding carbonation, since it only takes a week. Cheers!

I now regularly carb stuff up in 36 hours.

 

[Brulosopher]

UPDATE: I finally made some room in my kegerator to squeeze my keg of Pils in there. It's been sitting happily at around 38F and on 12 psi of CO2 for 2 days now. I pulled a few ounces off yesterday just to check the progress. It sure is pale... almost white. This is my first time ever doing a single malt beer, and it was all Pilsner malt, so I guess that's what I expected. And goodness, it really does take much longer for lager beers to condition (duh)- with my ales, they'll usually fall bright within 2 weeks of kegging and cold conditioning. I can tell my Pils is going to need another 2-3 weeks to really clear and crisp up. Either way, the sample is starting to taste more and more like I was hoping, which is exciting!

 

[osagedr]

UPDATE: I finally made some room in my kegerator to squeeze my keg of Pils in there. It's been sitting happily at around 38F and on 12 psi of CO2 for 2 days now. I pulled a few ounces off yesterday just to check the progress. It sure is pale... almost white. This is my first time ever doing a single malt beer, and it was all Pilsner malt, so I guess that's what I expected. And goodness, it really does take much longer for lager beers to condition (duh)- with my ales, they'll usually fall bright within 2 weeks of kegging and cold conditioning. I can tell my Pils is going to need another 2-3 weeks to really clear and crisp up. Either way, the sample is starting to taste more and more like I was hoping, which is exciting!

How long it takes stuff to clear is affected by your brewing process as well as the yeast you use. If you can get it to clear (I mean brilliantly clear) in 2-3 weeks you will be doing really well--I've made Pilsners with less flocculant yeast that still have chill haze after months. I usually just end up using gelatin or biofine.

 

[Yooper]

How long it takes stuff to clear is affected by your brewing process as well as the yeast you use. If you can get it to clear (I mean brilliantly clear) in 2-3 weeks you will be doing really well--I've made Pilsners with less flocculant yeast that still have chill haze after months. I usually just end up using gelatin or biofine.

Mine clear up faster- but I always have super clear wort right after brewing. With pilsner malt, I get crazy hot break and crazy cold break, and a clear wort right from the beginning. But I do notice that many lager strains take a lot longer to clear the beer than ale yeast strains do!

I never use finings (want my beer "vegetarian friendly") and it does clear up a lot during lagering, to where it looks like it's been filtered by the time I serve it.

 

[osagedr]

Mine clear up faster- but I always have super clear wort right after brewing. With pilsner malt, I get crazy hot break and crazy cold break, and a clear wort right from the beginning. But I do notice that many lager strains take a lot longer to clear the beer than ale yeast strains do!

I never use finings (want my beer "vegetarian friendly") and it does clear up a lot during lagering, to where it looks like it's been filtered by the time I serve it.

I usually end up with really clear wort out of the kettle as well. I'm going to try a few more flocculant yeasts on my lighter lagers this fall and see what happens. I'd prefer not to use finings but will do it if it gets my beer really clear. Definitely lean toward Biofine for beers I really care about since it's a small addition.

 

[kombat]

So ... how did this Pilsner Lager turn out in the end?

 

[Brulosopher]

So ... how did this Pilsner Lager turn out in the end?

Amazingly delicious. Took a tad long, so I'm working on building up my pipeline before brewing another one.

 

[kombat]

Looks delicious! Is that haze, or carbonation, or condensation on the glass? Did you use any fining agents on this beer (Irish moss, gelatine)? What are you planning to brew to fill your pipeline?

 

[Brulosopher]

Looks delicious! Is that haze, or carbonation, or condensation on the glass? Did you use any fining agents on this beer (Irish moss, gelatine)? What are you planning to brew to fill your pipeline?

That's condensation, the beer WAS crystal clear- cold beer, 105F day. It's gone now. Check out my signature to see what's brewing... I'm in the middle of chilling starter wort for a Dry Stout and Oirish Mild I'm making this weekend using WLP004.