Stalled at 1024 *recipe says 1013

[Bubbles2]

Hi All,
So I am about ready to bottle I believe, here is a run down on the brew and what the steps have been...
I bought the AHS XMas Milk Stout (13b)
I did add 8oz of Hershey plain unsweetened Chocolate at Hop (last 15min)


12-28-17
Started at 1068 -OG - Instructions/recipe. State OG @ 1.063 - I'm 5 points higher at start "for a heads up"

01-02-18
Aaron (over at AHS) told me; "best at 1020 to avoid bottle burst."
Brewing at 68º - Test @ 60º for 1025-24
Gave a Vigorous Stir

01-05-18
Transfer to Secondary to help clear
Brew at 66º -no check gravity
Zero activity for air lock for two days (so "I think" as I did not sit and watch for 30hrs straight LOL But did not push the water in the 2 stage to the other side from C02 build up)

01-09-18
Brew @ 67º Tested @60º 1024 Gravity "kinda stalled" (pic attached, because pics are cool)
Total time brewing-13 days

01-10-18
Beer looks good and clear, did not thief yet another 7oz's to measure FG since it has kinda been sitting at 1024 for 8 days now... No airlock activity... Beer is dark and clean looking.

Running out of beer testing it....hahaha.

Am I being impatient or did that Chocolate I added create a higher FG ?
Does it matter if I wait too long to bottle?
Thanks for the help

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

You should finish slightly higher with a higher than anticipated OG, so there's that.

Also, what yeast did you use - did you pitch the appropriate amount of cells?

How does it taste? 1.024 you should be able to taste some inappropriate residual body as well as quite a bit of sweetness.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Low 1.020s seems about right to me. I can't see a milk stout finishing anywhere near 1.013 if you added lactose (since it's a milk stout, I'm assuming lactose was added). How much lactose was in the recipe?

Edit: I just looked online at the recipe instructions and saw that there is indeed 1 lb of lactose in this recipe. Given the higher than expected OG, I'm pretty sure it's done.

 

[Bubbles2]

@Maple Ale WYeast I think it is, not getting up for the spelling. Liquid pack.
Actually, If I had some lactose sugar I'd add a bit more to sweeten it up, just a touch. So No to too sweet. Kinda has an Anchor Stout bite to it.

@LLBeanJ - I was concerned about being over 1020 due to a warning about bottle breakage from priming the bottles.

I am going to wait till tomorrow eve and waste, yet another 7oz of beer checking the FG.... If it did not move anymore I gotta think it is done... But the wait is what I am concerned about.

Does it matter if I were to wait another few days and if I still see no move off the 1024, is that a problem with the beer?

Thanks for the help on this
B.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Does it matter if I were to wait another few days and if I still see no move off the 1024, is that a problem with the beer?

No, it should be fine to give it a little more time.

Is this an extract recipe? The directions I found online for were for an extract version, but I assume there's an all grain version as well. If extract, along with the lactose, I would not at all be surprised to see it stall out at 1.024.

 

[Smellyglove]

You're oxidizing the beer even more every time you take the lid/cap off. Stop doing it. If it haven't moved for a few days it's done, especially since you're not using a belgian strain.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Yeah, you're done...

One of your first beers?

Generally most novice extract homebrew batches finish a little high. Extract can sometimes have difficulty fully fermenting, especially since it's pale and munich extract. And if you just pitched a smack pack without a starter you might not have had great yeast viability. I'd expect it to finish above the target of 1.013. Then you add in a pound of lactose, and you're definitely going to finish high.

So I wouldn't worry about it. Obviously keep an eye on the bottles as you are going through bottle conditioning, and if you find them becoming gushers, get them into a fridge and drink them quickly before you start getting bottle bombs. But based on what I've read in this thread, I doubt that'll be an issue.

In the future, I'd recommend 2 things with extract batches.

1) Use extra-light malt extract rather than pale, and perhaps even use the "late extract" addition method. You want to keep that extract as fermentable as possible. If you need more color, that can be made up through your steeping grains.
2) Use either a dry yeast or make a starter with extract. Heck, you can get away with just buying two packs of dry yeast if you like. Overpitching isn't a concern. Yeast health is hugely important for all beers, and IMHO even slightly more so with extract than all-grain batches.

 

[Bubbles2]

@LLBeanJ Yes Extract...I would assume in the instructions as well as the Brewer I chatted with over there was the one who told me to wait till 1020.. Would've taken that into consideration.. FWIW.

@Smellyglove I think I am doing better with the IPA I have in the Primary. Whereas measuring and checking the stout indeed had me popping the lid off to thief some 7oz to check. However when you mention it has'nt moved in a couple days, to what are you referring? Airlock or Gravity? IF gravity well then a lid must come off if one does not have a spigot.

@Bwiarba.... (the names... or handles we used to call em on the ol'd CB LOL) I do not understand why a Novice finishes high? If I follow the Recipe...I'll take your word for it. I wonder why the brewer of help desk at AHS would not take the Lactose into consideration.

All in all good to know about the time to leave it in the secondary.... without a problem.

My IPA also was a 'Pitch' and the thing took off fine for a few days and now on it's 4th and seems to be mellowing, I will wait a full 7 before moving it to the Secondary to clear. Yet the Stout I am inquiring about did have a challenge getting going.. I had to vigorously stir to get it going on the 5th day..but in Retro that is the typical of Yeast.. I read this:
http://www.brewgeeks.com/the-life-cycle-of-yeast.html

Thanks again for the advice/help

 

[Smellyglove]

@LLBeanJ Yes Extract...I would assume in the instructions as well as the Brewer I chatted with over there was the one who told me to wait till 1020.. Would've taken that into consideration.. FWIW.

@Smellyglove I think I am doing better with the IPA I have in the Primary. Whereas measuring and checking the stout indeed had me popping the lid off to thief some 7oz to check. However when you mention it has'nt moved in a couple days, to what are you referring? Airlock or Gravity? IF gravity well then a lid must come off if one does not have a spigot.

@Bwiarba.... (the names... or handles we used to call em on the ol'd CB LOL) I do not understand why a Novice finishes high? If I follow the Recipe...I'll take your word for it. I wonder why the brewer of help desk at AHS would not take the Lactose into consideration.

All in all good to know about the time to leave it in the secondary.... without a problem.

My IPA also was a 'Pitch' and the thing took off fine for a few days and now on it's 4th and seems to be mellowing, I will wait a full 7 before moving it to the Secondary to clear. Yet the Stout I am inquiring about did have a challenge getting going.. I had to vigorously stir to get it going on the 5th day..but in Retro that is the typical of Yeast.. I read this:
http://www.brewgeeks.com/the-life-cycle-of-yeast.html

Thanks again for the advice/help

Gravity. Airlock is of zero importance. Activity in the airlock only confirms that gas is travelling through it, it does not say anything about the reason it does. But right after pitch you'd say it confirms that active fermentation has started, after that, it doesn't mean anything.

For instance, I had a customer once who said he didn't bottle because he had slight airlock activity for several weeks. This was in spring.. he had 0 temp-control and it was getting warmer for each day.. The beer was most probably done fermenting after a week, but the rising temps let gas slowly out of solution, so he could observe movement in the airlock.

Just leave the beers for almost two weeks before sampling. Almost two weeks, until you get some more brews under your belt (experience). When you know your yeasts and wort you can cut that short if you want to.

 

[Bubbles2]

@Smellyglove Ok Gravity, yep gotta pop the lid. There again learning to wait. The instructions state 5-7 days (Measure) but it reads 14 days from your advice... Good to know.
I am aware of the brew temp, as my GF is a master baker... AMF she takes the grains from the Sparge bag and creates the best bread... We waste nothing here, if I don't eat it, the chickens do.
I can certainly observed that there is ZERO airlock activity, and 14 days in now... including a transfer to a secondary that should have oxygenated if anything, with the temp(s) pretty consistent.

I am just worried about bottle burst and was not sure about leaving it and IF it can go stale doing so.
Great help thanks.

 

[Smellyglove]

@Smellyglove Ok Gravity, yep gotta pop the lid. There again learning to wait. The instructions state 5-7 days (Measure) but it reads 14 days from your advice... Good to know.
I am aware of the brew temp, as my GF is a master baker... AMF she takes the grains from the Sparge bag and creates the best bread... We waste nothing here, if I don't eat it, the chickens do.
I can certainly observed that there is ZERO airlock activity, and 14 days in now... including a transfer to a secondary that should have oxygenated if anything, with the temp(s) pretty consistent.

I am just worried about bottle burst and was not sure about leaving it and IF it can go stale doing so.
Great help thanks.

14 days is to let stuff clean up. If you have good tempcontrol you can short this by maybe a week and bottle then. But it's better to leave the beer on the cake if you'd end up with VDKs or other stuff which is off.

It will stale quicker if you transfer to secondary, or pop the lid once in a while. You're introducing oxygen to a not fermenting beer. Brew, pitch yeast, let sit for 12 days, measure once, wait till day 14, measure again. If it's same reading go a head and bottle. Except for some belgian strains or other strains which are known to be slow, or maybe the 1.100+ beer.

If the reading is stable the bottles will not burst if you use undamaged bottles, proper amount of priming agent and don't have a contamination. Even if the SG is high and you know you'va had a good fermentation.

 

[Bubbles2]

Yeppers still at 1024, gonna bottle it tomorrow.

 

[Bubbles2]

Update on this one...The weather forced a cold front to come in. I wanted to see what would happen if I were to force flocculate the brew, as in 'cold crash' seen in this article
http://www.brewgeeks.com/the-life-cycle-of-yeast.html
(last two paragraphs at the bottom).
So we had it go 29º which brought the beer down to 44º in the garage. (Not sure if an overnight is long enough for this kind of science) Which when brought in to the house to check it out, warm it up to room temp, to add priming sugar; I had real good activity in the air lock.
I am going to see if it subsides this afternoon before bottling.. Wondering if that brought that 1024 down any???

 

[LLBeanJ]

When you cold crashed it, the liquid contracted and took in oxygen to fill the growing headspace in the fermenter. Conversely, when you brought it back inside, the liquid expanded as it warmed, pushing out gas from the headspace, which is most likely the source of your air lock activity.

 

[Bubbles2]

If there is a air lock... how did it draw oxygen? If indeed it drew 02 would it not have drawn the H20 out of the two stage air lock as shown in the pic? Whereas the draw would have dumped the lock's h2o into the vessel? As it does if you open the spigot while that is atop..

Edit addt'l info: Along the lines of cold and hot, expansion contraction. I went over and pulled the air lock off, used the spigot to pull a shot to measure temp. Put airlock back in. The ambient temp and the brew are 2º difference... 58 and 60º and I waited to see if the airlock began to bubble, and indeed it has....

 

[LLBeanJ]

From what I understand, S-type air locks will not draw the liquid back into the fermenter if there is contraction due to temp drop the way a 3-piece will, so the fact that there is still liquid in the air lock is normal.

With that said, it is certainly possible that the temp change prompted the yeast to re-start fermentation, albeit the likelihood is pretty low.

 

[Bubbles2]

I think that is the point the crash, the article about yeast and forced flocculate If you have a stall, and a tall enough freezer or "cold front" in my case, you can roust the yeast.

The two way INDEED will dump in once the spigot is opened, as it will if pushing down on the BmB lid too...I keep star san in it for liquid.
As far as design the 02 has to come from somewhere... IF contracting and the plastic jug is not 'sucked-in' and the air lock does not allow counter flow... Then, it is yeast activation and not contraction.

I am going to wait till tomorrow or the next, before bottling to make sure it is not active anymore, then I will pull for FG and see if that did anything.

I already whipped up the priming sugar with H20 as I thought I was going to bottle today and wanted that water to come down to room temp. I just Starsan a mason jar and lid and put it in there, I THINK it will be fine for a couple of days...?