Stainless vs. Copper Counterflow (w/ results)

[brewmeister13]

When I was looking to move from my copper counterflow chiller to stainless (thanks a lot LODO brewing guys) I found a lot of hypothetical and mathematical examples comparing the two, but I didn't find any real world results. Well, I got my hands on a stainless counterflow (sold by Williams Brewing) and put it up against my copper counterflow (sold by MoreBeer and named Chills Convolutes).

For this test I added 5.5 gallons of water + the volume of the hoses and added it to my BK. I brought it to a boil and then turned on my hose, which is a balmy 87.3ºF according to my thermapen, started the timer and recorded the results. Then I reheated the same exact pot of water to a boil and switched the connections to the stainless chiller. Once boiling I again started the hose water, the timer and recorded the results. I stirred minimally, only when I was approaching a milestone to equalize the water temp in the pot. Anyways, here are my results:

------------------------Time (Min)
----------------5----------10---------15
Stainless---127.3ºF---102.6ºF----92.7ºF
Copper-----120.0ºF----96.7ºF----89.5ºF

It took Copper 2 min 28 sec to hit 150ºF, while it took stainless 3 min even. Likewise, it took copper 8 min 46 sec to hit 100ºF, while it took stainless 10 min 53 sec.

Now, I usually use ice water to recirculate and cool my wort quicker, but I didn't want to waste a ton of ice and figured it would be harder to get both runs the exact same, so I expect the numbers to be much faster on an actual brew day. I hope others might find this information useful and before anyone asks, no this was not peer reviewed for scientific accuracy :fro:

 

[wilserbrewer]

Interesting, Why the move from copper?

 

[brewmeister13]

Not looking to open a huge bag of worms, but it is recommended by the Low Dissolved Oxygen (or LODO) brewers. It doesn't hurt I picked it up for quite a bit less than I should be able to sell the copper chiller for. Here is a link to a spirited debate on LODO here on HBT. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=580532

 

[Dfitz]

I'm glad to here the copper cools quicker. I pretty much knew it would but seeing your numbers is nice. I worried over the cleanliness of copper vs stainless but I built a copper cfc anyway. I spiraled & soldered a 6 ga copper ground wire around the 25' length before sliding the 7/8" ID x 1-1/4" OD hose over it. That was a chore! A little detergent goes a long way. Testing went well chilling the boil in somewhat the same time frame. I have a dial thermometer at the valve and I was mainly concerned with the temps as it flowed then how fast it chilled. I've yet to use it but will in the next week or so.

 

[Homercidal]

I'm glad to here the copper cools quicker. I pretty much knew it would but seeing your numbers is nice. I worried over the cleanliness of copper vs stainless but I built a copper cfc anyway. I spiraled & soldered a 6 ga copper ground wire around the 25' length before sliding the 7/8" ID x 1-1/4" OD hose over it. That was a chore! A little detergent goes a long way. Testing went well chilling the boil in somewhat the same time frame. I have a dial thermometer at the valve and I was mainly concerned with the temps as it flowed then how fast it chilled. I've yet to use it but will in the next week or so.

Copper should be faster, all things even, but the times and temps aren't significantly different.

30 ish seconds to get to 150F is probably not noticeable in any measurable way. The temp difference at 15 minutes is hardly anything.

 

[brewmeister13]

Copper should be faster, all things even, but the times and temps aren't significantly different.

30 ish seconds to get to 150F is probably not noticeable in any measurable way. The temp difference at 15 minutes is hardly anything.

That was what I thought too. You see a lot of "well copper is 20X more heat conductive than stainless" and "yeah, but the stainless uses thinner walls" so it was nice to see them side by side and know that there really isn't much difference.

As a side note, Williams Brewing has since discontinued their stainless chillers (I contacted them to see why, hopefully I'll hear back and report when I do), but there is another site I found that has some. Not sure of the quality, as I didn't use them, but here is a link for anyone interested. http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20160609113159&SearchText=counterflow+chiller

 

[andrewmaixner]

That was what I thought too. You see a lot of "well copper is 20X more heat conductive than stainless" and "yeah, but the stainless uses thinner walls" so it was nice to see them side by side and know that there really isn't much difference.

As a side note, Williams Brewing has since discontinued their stainless chillers (I contacted them to see why, hopefully I'll hear back and report when I do), but there is another site I found that has some. Not sure of the quality, as I didn't use them, but here is a link for anyone interested. http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20160609113159&SearchText=counterflow+chiller

The prices look good at first, then I realizes that they all want to add 50-80$ shipping, so it's no cheaper and than buying from a US vendor, if we can find one. None of the AliExpress chillers seem to offer a low cost / slow shipping option.

 

[brewmeister13]

Yeah, the shipping kills the price, but I don't know anywhere else selling them. Williams Brewing discontinuing theirs kind of killed the availability of SS counterflows.

 

[BroStefan]

Yeah, the shipping kills the price, but I don't know anywhere else selling them. Williams Brewing discontinuing theirs kind of killed the availability of SS counterflows.

Northern Brewer / MIDWEST supply has them. Get on there mailing list they have frequent deals

 

[BroStefan]

Northern Brewer & MIDWEST have them.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Just checked NB and Midwest, not even listed on their site?

 

[Dfitz]

The prices look good at first, then I realizes that they all want to add 50-80$ shipping, so it's no cheaper and than buying from a US vendor, if we can find one.

I don't recall but I think it was Midwest I saw with them then all of the sudden they were back ordered. I think I might have &35 in SS hardware and a gauge, $30 into the tubing and another $25 into the PVC waterline. It really only took a few hours to solder up and roll into a 14" diameter coil. It does work nice though and I really can't complain about the cost in materials. If I find an issue with it there's always eBay.

 

[milldoggy]

I have both and I find that going from 90 to 70 with stainless takes a lot longer. So when the temp differences are larger, times are equal, it seems when wort to cooling water temps are closer it is slower than copper

 

[Dfitz]

Just checked NB and Midwest, not even listed on their site?

Did the same here. Only Ali seems to have them. I'd never trust solder from an overseas company though. I wonder if I'm not the only one with this mindset.

 

[brewmeister13]

I have both and I find that going from 90 to 70 with stainless takes a lot longer. So when the temp differences are larger, times are equal, it seems when wort to cooling water temps are closer it is slower than copper

Interesting, my tap water was pretty close to 90 though so the temp differential wasn't much. Maybe I should have run an ice water test. Ah, I'll find out next time I brew I guess.

 

[Ian123]

Sorry didn't mean to post this here, but I can't seem to find the delete post button.

View attachment 1465546586231.jpg

 

[milldoggy]

I could be wrong, I have been doing hop stands since switching to stainless, so my process has changed. And ground water is much warmer now.

 

[addled_mind]

Northern Brewer :http://www.northernbrewer.com/silver-serpenttm-stainless-steel-immersion-wort-chiller

Morebeer: https://www.morebeer.com/products/stainless-steel-wort-chiller-25-38-tubing.html

 

[kh54s10]

Did the same here. Only Ali seems to have them. I'd never trust solder from an overseas company though. I wonder if I'm not the only one with this mindset.

If you buy one in the US it was most likely made in CHINA!

 

[kh54s10]

Northern Brewer :http://www.northernbrewer.com/silver-serpenttm-stainless-steel-immersion-wort-chiller

Morebeer: https://www.morebeer.com/products/stainless-steel-wort-chiller-25-38-tubing.html

The OP was comparing counter-flow chillers...

These are immersion chillers.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Northern Brewer :http://www.northernbrewer.com/silver-serpenttm-stainless-steel-immersion-wort-chiller

Morebeer: https://www.morebeer.com/products/stainless-steel-wort-chiller-25-38-tubing.html

Aah, I see the confusion. Those are immersion chillers, while this thread is about counterflow chillers, which look like this: https://www.google.com/search?q=counterflow+chiller&tbm=isch
Counterflow chillers have a internal and external tube. Wort goes through innermost tube, and the cooling liquid is circulated between the inner and outer tubes.

 

[addled_mind]

Aah, I see the confusion. Those are immersion chillers, while this thread is about counterflow chillers, which look like this: https://www.google.com/search?q=counterflow+chiller&tbm=isch
Counterflow chillers have a internal and external tube. Wort goes through innermost tube, and the cooling liquid is circulated between the inner and outer tubes.

My bad - reading comprehension is not what it should be this early in the morning before my coffee. Reading the OP again I clearly see it now.