Stainless steel kettle, Oxiclean free - damaged?

[ILMSTMF]

* FIXED! Kind of. See post 24 here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7224225&postcount=24 *
* UPDATE - Manufacturer states that rivets are aluminum. The end. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7250995&postcount=46 *

Finally traded out PBW for Oxiclean free in my setup. Post-brew, put 3 TBSP of that plus the last 1 TBSP of the remaining PBW I had in the kettle and let it soak with hot water, ~5 gallons. Over 24 hours passed before I dumped and soaked in clear water. I have since soaked it probably 5 more times in clear, hot water. Why? The bolts that secure the handles onto the pot feel rough/gritty. I don’t know if the Oxi/PBW soaking caused it or if it’s even harmful to the state of the kettle. However, with a little scrubbing from soft sponge and bare fingers, the grit has become progressively less with each soak. I can't get the bolts as smooth as the interior walls of the kettle. Not sure if it even matters. The result are some streak-shaped stains near the bolts. See photos.
Have I ruined my kettle? Thanks!

 

[mrgrimm101]

I am going to assume that the bolts are aluminum or a lower grade of steel. Oxiclean is known to oxidize aluminum.

 

[CA_Mouse]

That looks more like the bolts/rivets are not the same grade of stainless steel as the kettle. Most likely they are very low grade stainless or they are chromium steel. A buffing compound and some elbow grease should make them smooth again. Then re-passivate the kettle (boil water above the rivets for at least 20 minutes. If that doesn't work, then you got a bad deal on the kettle. Unless you've had it for a very short time (under 2 weeks), you may be stuck with it.

 

[flars]

Try a paste of Barkeepers Friend with a soft cloth for buffing out the roughness.

 

[ILMSTMF]

Excellent thoughts. And yes. Nearly certain that the handles and bolts are a different material. The brand is Polarware. It has served me well for prob a year and a half or more.
Even if I can't get this fixed, would it be UNSAFE to brew with? Thanks!

 

[CA_Mouse]

Bar Keepers Friend should be able to help (I generally only use BKF every couple of months just to keep the shine on the outside and to shine the inside if I'm going to have a shared brew day - gotta have my stuff looking really nice).

 

[Vandulus]

Have you tried hitting the parts with an acid based product like StarSan? That might help dissolve some of the oxidization.

 

[unionrdr]

That's why I only use a Dobie brand scrubber with a lil PBW to scrub it out with, then rinse. soaking allows it time to eat away at the metal. Starsan would do the same with stainless over time like that. Mine still looks like shiny new from only using PBW for a quick scrub then rinse.

 

[ILMSTMF]

That's why I only use a Dobie brand scrubber with a lil PBW to scrub it out with, then rinse. soaking allows it time to eat away at the metal. Starsan would do the same with stainless over time like that. Mine still looks like shiny new from only using PBW for a quick scrub then rinse.

And here's where I have the conflict. I read of others doing a 24 hour soak in the kettle with Oxiclean and decided to try it. Anyway, if I haven't already said it, I use a soft sponge, no rough surface on it.

As suggested, I'll get the spray bottle of Starsan out and scrub the bolts down. If that doesn't clear it, I'll buy the BKF and try that. Thanks!

 

[ThomasPaine]

Have you tried hitting the parts with an acid based product like StarSan? That might help dissolve some of the oxidization.

Works every time on oxiclean residue

 

[dwhite60]

That actually looks like oxidized zinc. If it is you don't want to be ingesting it. It also means the material under the zinc is not stainless steel.

MOST stainless steel is impervious to corrosion although some of the ferritic 400 series will rust lightly. If what you have is supposed to be food grade it should be 300 series.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[passedpawn]

I'd contact polarware, or at least the disty you got the pot from. Standard cleaning materials for brewing systems are quite acidic (starsan) or alkaline (TSP). Your pot clearly isn't designed for these chemicals. If it was a chili pot from walmart, that's one thing, but it's a fermentor made for brewing. I think you have a valid grievance. Send them the picture.

 

[unionrdr]

That's why I was concerned with soaking. It shouldn't do that do good quality stainless. I just never tempted fate by soaking, but rather scrubbing with PBW then rinsing & drying. T304 stainless is impervious to such things, usually. I have a tuner muffler on my car made from it, & it's some 10 years old & still looks good after all the NE Ohio weather exposure.

 

[dwhite60]

If the thing was manufactured in China and Polarware just branded it, there's no telling what the Chinese did, or will do. It could just be a simple manufacturing mistake where galvanized steel was thought to be stainless.

Good luck with this.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[ILMSTMF]

Thanks everybody for their additional feedback. I'm going to call my LHBS where I bought it a couple years ago to see if they can shed some light. If they play hardball, which they prob won't, I'll write to Polarware. Meanwhile, I hit the spots with a generous spray of starsan solution, scrubbed with sponge, and didn't yield success. Should I still bother with the BKF scrubbing? Thanks!

 

[MandingaBIAB]

That's why I only use a Dobie brand scrubber with a lil PBW to scrub it out with, then rinse. soaking allows it time to eat away at the metal. Starsan would do the same with stainless over time like that. Mine still looks like shiny new from only using PBW for a quick scrub then rinse.

I tell you what..... Back when I was a retired auto worker I read a book called Tappy Toppy Tippy about home brewin'. It said for stainless its best to use the tallow of a bull elk to polish up that stainless and put a good shine on like uncle Jasper did back during the industrial revolution. That tallow really gets down in the grain of the metal for a real good shine and the best passivivation available.

I heard that.... :fro:

 

[passedpawn]

That actually looks like oxidized zinc. If it is you don't want to be ingesting it.

I don't know about that. Actually, I really don't, but I won't let that stop me from commenting Zinc is the primary ingredient in yeast nutrients. It's the one element that yeast needs that isn't provided by normal wort.

So, it would seem that presence of zinc in the wort is actually a benefit? Counterpoint?

 

[ILMSTMF]

I don't know about that. Actually, I really don't, but I won't let that stop me from commenting Zinc is the primary ingredient in yeast nutrients. It's the one element that yeast needs that isn't provided by normal wort.

So, it would seem that presence of zinc in the wort is actually a benefit? Counterpoint?

Interesting point. I'm no expert/genius, thus, I'm basing my next potential brew day on the advice of you, my peers. If the consensus is "unsafe to brew with", my planned Black Friday brew day won't be happening. Keep it coming, folks. I'll report back anything noteworthy from my LHBS rep.

 

[mrgrimm101]

I don't know about that. Actually, I really don't, but I won't let that stop me from commenting Zinc is the primary ingredient in yeast nutrients. It's the one element that yeast needs that isn't provided by normal wort.

So, it would seem that presence of zinc in the wort is actually a benefit? Counterpoint?

I'm no chemist, but I would assume that, while zinc may not be harmful, oxidized zinc is probably a different story.

 

[Queequeg]

I have a cheap 20L kettle and the same thing happens in that, its a calcium deposit, I have hard water and it happens if i just boil towns water in it.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Looks yucky. I wouldn't worry overmuch though. When you boil do you regularly have the liquid line above the rivets/what have you? If not I would just scrub/polish it up to remove anything that may come off, passivate and then go ahead and use it.

A quick google tells me that it is vaporized zinc oxide that is bad for you, didnt say anything about ingestion.

 

[IslandLizard]

Take it up with Polarware directly, not your LHBS or you're gonna get the run around. Leave the tarnished rivets as is for documentation/proof.

It looks like those rivets are galvanized (steel), perhaps Aluminum.
If they stay dullish gray after "polishing" it's more likely to be Aluminum. If they start to shed brown rust after a few rounds of polishing, it was galvanized steel. And if galvanized, hopefully it was done with Zinc and not Cadmium (used in marine applications, and very poisonous).

 

[ILMSTMF]

When you boil do you regularly have the liquid line above the rivets/what have you? If not I would just scrub/polish it up to remove anything that may come off, passivate and then go ahead and use it.

A quick google tells me that it is vaporized zinc oxide that is bad for you, didnt say anything about ingestion.

Thank you. It's a 5 gallon kettle that I typically boil 3 gallons in. The water line doesn't usually get up as high as the rivets from what I can recall.

Anyway, talked to my pals at the LHBS. They're straight shooters, FWIW. They recommended a BKF scrub. They were pretty confident that the kettle isn't ruined so that's encouraging. So, next step will be that BKF scrub. Will keep you posted, thanks!

 

[dwhite60]

I don't know about that. Actually, I really don't, but I won't let that stop me from commenting Zinc is the primary ingredient in yeast nutrients. It's the one element that yeast needs that isn't provided by normal wort.

So, it would seem that presence of zinc in the wort is actually a benefit? Counterpoint?

I agree with you about zinc as a nutrient. Galvanizing alloy probably is not pure zinc. It probably has additive to help it flow and adhere.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[ILMSTMF]

It worked! Sort of. BKF scrub, rinse, and dry. Two rounds of that. First two photos show what that looks like. Last 3 photos show what it looks like post boil and dry. Rivets feel a lot smoother but still a little gritty. Much better!

The new paranoia is over the scorch marks at the bottom of the kettle which line up with the burner tops on my stove. You can't see in photo but part of those marks are kind of white.
Enough! Safe to brew with?!? Thanks!

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1448112932.313209.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1448112963.266182.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1448112979.051803.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1448112991.020736.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1448113009.076339.jpg

 

[Redlantern]

dissimilar metals - galvanic reaction may be a problem. A result is compromised handle strength as rivets are corroded.

The rivets appear to be a bit pitted. While the appearance is considerably better, your situation (sorry to say) will likely not improve.

It also appears as if there is some graying of whatever alloy the rivets are made from - probably not stainless

It may take a while before there is any risk of failure, but you may want to start putting away the $$$ for a good kettle

 

[Redlantern]

marks at bottom of kettle seem to be where it rested on gas stove. Very high heat transfer at those locations - may be heat staining.

Good guess is bottom is single wall. Not a problem, but to help kettle life, do not use high heat for extended periods of time. also danger of scorching hops to bottom of kettle

 

[unionrdr]

My old electric stove coils made marks with the wort in the coil shape on the bottom. I used a Dobie scrubber & PBW to scrub it off, then rinse well & dry. I never let PBW sit in my kettle to avoid such things. A just in case sort of thing...

 

[ILMSTMF]

Not the answers I was hoping for. Thanks to all for your insight. I'm still going to brew with it this Friday...unless someone comes out to say that I'll be brewing something hazardous! Thanks!

 

[Toejam792]

Have you tried to see if the rivits are magnetic. That will tell you real fast if its galvanized.