SSBrewtech Fermenter pitting

[dmcman73]

Did I ever mention anything about beer stone?? I don't know what you're trying to argue. My original post said that StarSan doesn't passivate stainless steel. That is still true. I did not mention anything about StarSan and beer stone.

Again I'm trying to get across the misnomer that StarSan passivates stainless and that it needs to be done before use; it does not.

If you go back to my post, #8, I said at the end: "To me it doesn't look pitted, it looks like beer stone which is common on non-passivated stainless steel."

OP posted his chonical was pitted and posted a picture. I said, and a few others agreed, that it did not look pitted but it looked like, in my opinion, it had beer stone. I went on to describe how to "passivate" it to prevent beer stone in where you jumped in arguing that passivating stainless to prevent oxidation (which was not the topic) was not necessary, I was discussing....beer stone remediation and prevention.

The term to "passivate" in the home brew community is used loosely. Lets see if we can get equipment manufacturers and others in the industry to stop calling it passivation and start calling it something else for beer stone cleaning and prevention.

I am not discussing Oxidation. Everything you stated in regards to OXIDATION in stainless is correct, I am NOT saying it is not correct.

Here are some posts with pictures of Beer stone, which is what the OP's conical looks to have:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=241048

http://www.thebruery.com/fermenters-new-or-old/

http://www.brewersfriend.com/2013/08/16/dude-your-beer-line-stinks-wash-it-out/

 

[WrQth]

If you go back to my post, #8, I said at the end: "To me it doesn't look pitted, it looks like beer stone which is common on non-passivated stainless steel."

OP posted his chonical was pitted and posted a picture. I said, and a few others agreed, that it did not look pitted but it looked like, in my opinion, it had beer stone. I went on to describe how to "passivate" it to prevent beer stone in where you jumped in arguing that passivating stainless to prevent oxidation (which was not the topic) was not necessary, I was discussing....beer stone remediation and prevention.

The term to "passivate" in the home brew community is used loosely. Lets see if we can get equipment manufacturers and others in the industry to stop calling it passivation and start calling it something else for beer stone cleaning and prevention.

I am not discussing Oxidation. Everything you stated in regards to OXIDATION in stainless is correct, I am NOT saying it is not correct.

Here are some posts with pictures of Beer stone, which is what the OP's conical looks to have:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=241048

http://www.thebruery.com/fermenters-new-or-old/

http://www.brewersfriend.com/2013/08/16/dude-your-beer-line-stinks-wash-it-out/

Passivation of stainless steel is oxidation, that is what makes the oxide layer that protects the stainless steel and aids in inhibiting beer stone.

 

[dmcman73]

Passivation of stainless steel is oxidation, that is what makes the oxide layer that protects the stainless steel and aids in inhibiting beer stone.

I'll quote what I wrote in my last post: "The term to "passivate" in the home brew community is used loosely. Lets see if we can get equipment manufacturers and others in the industry to stop calling it passivation and start calling it something else for beer stone cleaning and prevention"

 

[steveoatley]

Here's the link to the chapter:
http://howtobrew.com/book/appendices/appendix-b/passivating-stainless-steel

After reading the whole thread, I would say the best course of action for the OP would be to clean his Brew Bucket with an oxalic based cleaner, let it air dry and see what happens.

I agree.......

Quote from Bar Keepers Friend's own website
"BKF Cleanser & Polish Ingredients

The Bar Keepers Friend Cleanser & Polish are: mineral abrasive, oxalic acid, surfactant, and a water softening agent "

just saying...... we don't have to re invent the wheel each day

my 2 cents, and i'll get out of the flame war..

S

 

[Redlantern]

The idea of stainless steel passivation is not simply formation of an oxide layer. It is the creation of chromium oxide, which is the actual protective oxide when the steel is passivated.

If you sufficiently abrade the surface and expose free iron, or introduce free iron by your method of grinding or materials used to do it (steel wool for example), you will have iron oxide on the surface and that is the oxide you do not want. That is not protective - it is rust.

Simply stating that stainless steel exposed to the air creates an adequate chromium oxide layer to protect the steel is incorrect. Free iron must be removed. If you are not comfortable with the barkeepers friend option, perform a copper sulfate test to see if passivation is adequate.

 

[Meckhart]

Good news, I used barkeepers friend and a **** ton of scrubbing with the non scratch scotch spong/scurbber part and it is beer stone. I have a couple spots I missed so I'm going to scrub it more tonight. Does anybody know how long it takes to get passivated because I need to use this tonight for a brew night. Maybe I'll just use it then give it another good scrubbing after this batch ferments.

 

[YeastMode]

So, is there a final answer as to how to properly care for a stainless steel vessel such as the brew bucket? I read all the posts in this thread closely, as I have just ordered a Brew Bucket, and now I am curious.

From the best I can gather, I should use StarSan to "passivate" the bucket for warranty purposes because that is what the instructions say to do, with the understanding that I am basically doing nothing to create an oxidation layer in the bucket any faster or better than I would by giving it a good cleaning and letting it remain exposed to air. Is this correct?

 

[Sconnie12]

Good news, I used barkeepers friend and a **** ton of scrubbing with the non scratch scotch spong/scurbber part and it is beer stone. I have a couple spots I missed so I'm going to scrub it more tonight. Does anybody know how long it takes to get passivated because I need to use this tonight for a brew night. Maybe I'll just use it then give it another good scrubbing after this batch ferments.

Stainless passivates instantly with the oxygen in the atmosphere

 

[Sconnie12]

So, is there a final answer as to how to properly care for a stainless steel vessel such as the brew bucket? I read all the posts in this thread closely, as I have just ordered a Brew Bucket, and now I am curious.

From the best I can gather, I should use StarSan to "passivate" the bucket for warranty purposes because that is what the instructions say to do, with the understanding that I am basically doing nothing to create an oxidation layer in the bucket any faster or better than I would by giving it a good cleaning and letting it remain exposed to air. Is this correct?

Although SS Brew recommends "passivating" with StarSan in reality StarSan does not passivate stainless steel. The welds are polished and should be passivated from the factory. There is nothing you can do (or need to do) from home other than giving it a good clean with either dish soap (I like this as it cuts any machining oils) or Bar Keepers Friend.

Don't take my word for it. Listen to John Palmer (Godfather of homebrewing) who's background is metallurgy. He reiterates what I'm saying.

http://howtobrew.com/book/appendices/appendix-b/passivating-stainless-steel

Side note: This is why I get so heated when misinformation is spread. Guys like YeastMode are just looking for a simple answer and they need to weed through post after post of mis-information.

 

[YeastMode]

I'm cool, I understood what was going on. From a warranty standpoint, I am going to follow the instructions and document that I did so, knowing that I am wasting my time. Why? Because (a) that's the kind of person I am and I like to follow rules, and more importantly (b) I usually keep some StarSan around in a couple kegs for a week or so, transferring keg to keg from time to time. I find that it helps keep my equipment clean and ready to use, especially if it has been sitting around for a while.

That said, I understand what everyone is saying. Traditionally, I have cleaned all my stainless steel products with mild soap and a non-abrasive scrubber such as a green pad or even a paper towel. If I don't have to remove any gunk, then I use a cheap microfiber towel. Its a bit labor intensive, but I think its better practice. Sounds like that's what I should continue to do.

Off topic, but man are plastic buckets expensive to have shipped. I decided to just bite the bullet and buy stainless fermenting buckets. I hope I do not regret my decision.

 

[PGEduardo]

following...

 

[dmcman73]

Good news, I used barkeepers friend and a **** ton of scrubbing with the non scratch scotch spong/scurbber part and it is beer stone. I have a couple spots I missed so I'm going to scrub it more tonight. Does anybody know how long it takes to get passivated because I need to use this tonight for a brew night. Maybe I'll just use it then give it another good scrubbing after this batch ferments.

I had a feeling it would be beer stone, glad you were able to clean it up. Polishing up the inside of the fermenter with barkeepers friend is enough to help with the beer stone, no need to do any other steps. Just make sure you clean it up good before transferring beer into it.

I had the same thing happen to me years ago before I started following the manufacturers recommendation of what they refer to as "passivization". Since then, I've never had an issue.

 

[Natdavis777]

Although SS Brew recommends "passivating" with StarSan in reality StarSan does not passivate stainless steel. The welds are polished and should be passivated from the factory. There is nothing you can do (or need to do) from home other than giving it a good clean with either dish soap (I like this as it cuts any machining oils) or Bar Keepers Friend.

Don't take my word for it. Listen to John Palmer (Godfather of homebrewing) who's background is metallurgy. He reiterates what I'm saying.

http://howtobrew.com/book/appendices/appendix-b/passivating-stainless-steel

Side note: This is why I get so heated when misinformation is spread. Guys like YeastMode are just looking for a simple answer and they need to weed through post after post of mis-information.

Literally BKF my keggles last night after posting here (they had a little beer stone at the bottom and a small rust spot at one of the creases) and they look brand new again.

I do this every 3-4 months (I usually brew every 2-3 weeks) and they look just as good as the day I bought them.

2nd following Palmer's instructions.

 

[Meckhart]

I have two SS BrewTech Chronicals, one that I got over two years ago, and the second just 4 months ago, and both still look like brand new.



Stainless does pit from chlorinated cleaners, so they are correct that if that's what you are experiencing. Yet to me it looks more like poor cleaning and care practices all around. If you passivate stainless correctly, then clean using the prescribed methods you shouldn't ever have any issues.



I'm also pretty sure that if it was a problem with the material itself, this would not be an isolated incident. Think about it, they likely purchase the sheet metal in huge quantities mill-direct. Like others have said, to keep the cost down. If there was a bad lot of steel, we would likely see tons of posts everywhere about inferior material, since it would infect hundreds of units. I did a quick google search and the fact that you are the only one with a pitting issue, kind of isolates the issue to something you are doing. When I have beerstone or some other stuck on stain, I use bar keepers friend, its awesome stuff, have you given something like that a try?



I know their support is well regarded here, so if they thought you were exploiting them for a free Chronical, I could see why they put the brakes on that. I would try to give it a good polishing with Bar Keepers, and see what that does...

Thanks for the input, are you related to Michael Fabian the Ssbrew tech support guy?

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

Nice call Meckhart .. the post history, product launches (glycol chiller) and pro SSBT bias supports your ascertion. SSBT announced a new product in coming in december. I'd bet my chronicals it's the CIP pump assemble Mfabe recently posted. The pics of his stuff are so clean, only thing missing is super model ....

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

I still like SSBT stuff, i own a lot of it.... just would rather folks were upfront about there affiliations

 

[PGEduardo]

I still like SSBT stuff, i own a lot of it.... just would rather folks were upfront about there affiliations

Can't give likes on the mobile app, but I like this.