SSBrewTech Announced a New Insulated Mash Tun!

[augiedoggy]

Yes and no...
With RIMS, probably not. With HERMS, depends upon efficiency.

With HERMS we're going to be using our HLT water later for sparging AND of course, IDEALLY you don't want to raise the temp of the wort coming out your HEX/RIMS tube up into the mashout / enzyme denaturing temp ranges as it will hurt our precious enzymes. When you tweak a recirculating mash system this way you will get slower temperature ramps; the speed is also dependant upon the efficiency of the HEX in a HERMS system -with many people using stainless steel coils in HLTs now after the example of Kal's theelectricbrewery.com system, the efficiency can be pretty low ESPECIALLY if you're not stirring or whirlpooling the water in your HLT.

-Combine all these factors with a completely uninsulated keg-based mashtun and you can end up with very slow temperature steps that many people are seeing the purpose of temperature steps is to have MORE control over the process and the enzyme activation times; when you can't move quickly enough from one temperature to another you end up resting too long and the whole brewday takes longer.

Insulation can definitely help increase your temp ramp speed and give you more control which is the purpose of HERMS/RIMS in the first place. An insulated mashtun (which is a standard in the British brewing tradition) also means that you can do super simple infusion mashes that don't REQUIRE any application of heat to hold temp for the entire hour or 90 minute mash time.

Insulation also means increased energy efficiency and decreased costs (although I admit that electricity is a very minor contributor to costs at home brew scale).


Adam

But all I keep hearing from herms users is how they perform just as well and have all these advantages over rims that make them superior

Agreed though... and thats why I switched from herms to RIMS...I built my rims for $100...so no need for $200-400 insulated stainless mashtuns just to get the cleanability and bling factor of stainless. (and overcome the herms weaknesses) .
Truth be told though A lot of people use herms fine without insulated tuns like kal I believe...

 

[biertourist]

BTW when I was looking I did a search on the german ones and many people tried to find a way to distribute them to the states but the company who markets them was very rude and completely un interested in distributing or working with us distributors... theres many threads here about these.

-I know that was me in that thread back in 2012 / 2013. ;-)

 

[biertourist]

But all I keep hearing from herms users is how they perform just as well and have all these advantages over rims that make them superior

Agreed though... and thats why I switched from herms to RIMS...I built my rims for $100...so no need for $200-400 insulated stainless mashtuns just to get the cleanability and bling factor of stainless. (and overcome the herms weaknesses) .
Truth be told though A lot of people use herms fine without insulated tuns like kal I believe...

I did a HUGE study of the pros and cons of HERMS and RIMS and tried to come up with a design that was the best of both without the downsides of both. For me that meant a mashtun that is purpose-built with recirculation mashing in mind: insulated, 1:1 height to width, with a false bottom material with a large %open area to reduce struck mash risk, and a heat exchanger for HERMS that is also designed for efficiency: a high flow counter-flow chiller-also means nothing else in the HLT to clean or deal with.


The counterflow chiller doubles as both the HERMS HEX and the chiller post boil (with boiling wort recirculated through it at the end of the boil to sanitize it post mash use).

It is insanely efficient and fully uses the very expensive counterflow chiller. It makes temp ramps VERY fast, enables me to only raise and hold the HLT at sparge temps (185F), reduces the risk of a stuck mash, doesn't require any pipe-bomb like RIMS tubes, is very easy to clean, and it doesn't damage our precious enzymes.


Adam

 

[augiedoggy]

I did a HUGE study of the pros and cons of HERMS and RIMS and tried to come up with a design that was the best of both without the downsides of both. For me that meant a mashtun that is purpose-built with recirculation mashing in mind: insulated, 1:1 height to width, with a false bottom material with a large %open area to reduce struck mash risk, and a heat exchanger for HERMS that is also designed for efficiency: a high flow counter-flow chiller-also means nothing else in the HLT to clean or deal with.


The counterflow chiller doubles as both the HERMS HEX and the chiller post boil (with boiling wort recirculated through it at the end of the boil to sanitize it post mash use).

It is insanely efficient and fully uses the very expensive counterflow chiller. It makes temp ramps VERY fast, enables me to only raise and hold the HLT at sparge temps (185F), reduces the risk of a stuck mash, doesn't require any pipe-bomb like RIMS tubes, is very easy to clean, and it doesn't damage our precious enzymes.


Adam

I believe I accomplished the same thing on my budget build with good prefiltering (which completely removes any possible pressure issues with my rims (besides theres no way any grain could get past my 24v dc pumps without plugging them and the fact that I have over 40 brew sessions on my rig with no stuck sparges can attest to that. I use low heat with a ultra low watt density long rims tube and low (1.5gpm) flow. (I have still yet to see a real world example of this mythical pipe bomb issue)... My rims is easy to clean also plus I have the added ability to pop the camlock and open my rims up and actually physically clean the inside if I dont want to do the flush cleaning like you have to rely on with herms... every different setup has different strong points and I'll leave it at that ..(I didnt intend this to turn into a pissing match) I just meant to say if someone is using a rims, (and possibly a herms )they dont really need an insulated tun to hold or increase temps and make great beer...

 

[biertourist]

I believe I accomplished the same thing on my budget build with good prefiltering (which completely removes any possible pressure issues with my rims (besides theres no way any grain could get past my 24v dc pumps without plugging them and the fact that I have over 40 brew sessions on my rig with no stuck sparges can attest to that. I use low heat with a ultra low watt density long rims tube and low (1.5gpm) flow. (I have still yet to see a real world example of this mythical pipe bomb issue)... My rims is easy to clean also plus I have the added ability to pop the camlock and open my rims up and actually physically clean the inside if I dont want to do the flush cleaning like you have to rely on with herms... every different setup has different strong points and I'll leave it at that ..(I didnt intend this to turn into a pissing match) I just meant to say if someone is using a rims, (and possibly a herms )they dont really need an insulated tun to hold or increase temps and make great beer...

I agree. Sounds like you have a well-designed RIMS setup that avoids many of the issues.

I agree that you don't NEED an insulated tun, but it does help especially if you don't use the HERMS/ RIMS every batch and want simple infusion mashing support.

I'd still go so far as to say that a well-designed HERMS has less downside and certainly less cost than a well-designed RIMS, though. -If you've already got a counterflow chiller and 2 pumps it just takes moving some hoses around and you can HERMS mash.


Adam

 

[biertourist]

I believe I accomplished the same thing on my budget build with good prefiltering (which completely removes any possible pressure issues with my rims

If you have a ball valve anywhere along the output of the RIMS Tube and leave it closed while the liquid in is open you can get steam and be back into "pipe bomb" territory.

There's also the risk of dry firing and burning up the element.


No "pissing contest" intended. I'm just hoping to have a discussion on pros and cons of each setup for anyone who's trying to make the same evaluation themselves.

Poorly designed HERMS are worse than infusion mashing, poorly designed RIMS can be downright dangerous and huge pains to clean; well designed HERMS and RIMS systems help to get rid of many of the weaknesses, but there are still differences between well designed HERMS and RIMS that people should be aware of and evaluate before pulling the trigger.

(Especially when you realize just how few mashes can even benefit from stepped mashes with modern malts. -They're definitely "last mile" brewery enhancements.)



Adam

 

[augiedoggy]

If you have a ball valve anywhere along the output of the RIMS Tube and leave it closed while the liquid in is open you can get steam and be back into "pipe bomb" territory.

There's also the risk of dry firing and burning up the element.


No "pissing contest" intended. I'm just hoping to have a discussion on pros and cons of each setup for anyone who's trying to make the same evaluation themselves.

Poorly designed HERMS are worse than infusion mashing, poorly designed RIMS can be downright dangerous and huge pains to clean; well designed HERMS and RIMS systems help to get rid of many of the weaknesses, but there are still differences between well designed HERMS and RIMS that people should be aware of and evaluate before pulling the trigger.

(Especially when you realize just how few mashes can even benefit from stepped mashes with modern malts. -They're definitely "last mile" brewery enhancements.)



Adam

I can respect your valid points,
I have two things to stop that from happening... first I have a silicone washer with my temp probe in it at the end of my rims and any pressure would simply pop it out... Second I have just incorporated a $10 stainless flow switch that kills the power to my rims heater if the flow stops..

Ive read that any beer with oats or wheat can benefit from step mashes as well as the ones that use the less modified malts... Isnt the popular "Maris Otter one of these less modified malts?

 

[biertourist]

I can respect your valid points,
I have two things to stop that from happening... first I have a silicone washer with my temp probe in it at the end of my rims and any pressure would simply pop it out... Second I have just incorporated a $10 stainless flow switch that kills the power to my rims heater if the flow stops..

Ive read that any beer with oats or wheat can benefit from step mashes as well as the ones that use the less modified malts... Isnt the popular "Maris Otter one of these less modified malts?

Awesome! Wow, you really DID think of everything in your RIMS design. Love it.

Oats and Wheat benefit from step mashing; Maris Otter is ALWAYS a highly modified malt as far as I know, though.

The entire British tradition is very much focused on single infusion mashing; that's actually where it origina. Interestingly enough, they also almost always have insulated mashtuns for that reason, too.

There are a few intentionally low modification pilsner malts but that's really about it.

 

[aangel]

So what I'm wondering is whether truly insulated mash tuns perform any differently than the non-insulated recirculating setups. I've noticed in my own HERMS setup, for example, that the temperature of my recirculating mash water is ~4-6 degrees warmer than my mash tun itself. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar temperature gradients in the mash tun, from central to the periphery. This means that my mash isn't really at say 150 degrees; it's 150 in some parts, and 156 in others. I wonder if anyone with access to a spectrum analyzer might step up and compare resultant wort?

 

[sandyeggoxj]

So what I'm wondering is whether truly insulated mash tuns perform any differently than the non-insulated recirculating setups. I've noticed in my own HERMS setup, for example, that the temperature of my recirculating mash water is ~4-6 degrees warmer than my mash tun itself. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar temperature gradients in the mash tun, from central to the periphery. This means that my mash isn't really at say 150 degrees; it's 150 in some parts, and 156 in others. I wonder if anyone with access to a spectrum analyzer might step up and compare resultant wort?

In my herms I see about 2-3° difference between hlt and mlt. When I probe the Grain bed with a calibrated digital thermometer I see about 1 degree of temperature shift depending where I test.

An insulated tun would change temperature much faster because the heat source doesn't have to overcome the heat loss to the environment.

Fwiw, I have 30 gallon tanks.

 

[nitz146]

I think I might wait for this.

Ill wait till they add a second bulkhead.

 

[Joe_CraftBeerTraders]

Great news guys! The InfuSsion Mash Tuns are getting ready to ship within the next few days. They have also announced some new optional extras like a sparge arm and a heating pad that can be controlled by the FTSs. Heres some of the

Heres some info i wrote up about it.

http://blog.craftbeertraders.com/ssbrewtech-mash-tun-shipping-soon-new-features/

Also bigger news. They have announced they are doing a 20gal version that will be available in sept/oct. The 20gal will have a manometer too!


I will have the 10gal version in the first shipment and will be getting the 20gal as well when that releases. So ill post up pictures when i get it

 

[augiedoggy]

All this conversation makes me wonder if anyone's done a DIY version of an insulated SS mashtun by basically sandwiching two brew pots together with welded-through fittings.

I thought of doing this after seeing these were availiable for years in europe from a german distributor there. https://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/49-litre-stainless-steel-insulated-mash-tun.html
(They are only about $300 US there BTW but no one imports them it seems.) if you do a search you will see this is an old topic. some even ripped out the liner of an igloo cooler and installed a stainless liner but in reality you need to mash at over 170 degrees for any plastic to possibly leech and be an issue. the plastic used in coolers is tested and foodgrade to 170 degrees from the research I did...

That said I fell victim to the "Bling" bug myself and bought a 16 gallon stainless kettle with false bottom I use as a mash tun with my rims setup so insulation is not worth the extra $230 it would cost over my current larger stainless mash tun costs.

They are pretty though and if I was looking to blow an extra $400 on another toy I could see this being a big hit for those who dont use herms or rims setups..

 

[AfroHopster]

anyone get one yet?

 

[Joe_CraftBeerTraders]

I just got my InfuSsion Mash Tun in and completed a brew day with it. This thing is pretty sweet. The wall thickness and insulation is amazing and the conical bottom works awesome. Here are a couple photos and I did a full write up of my brew day on my blog. I brewed a 12gal batch of my Berliner Weisse.

http://blog.craftbeertraders.com/first-look-ssbrewtech-infussion-mash-tun-brew-day/

 

[Joe_CraftBeerTraders]

**Duplicate Post**

 

[pvpeacock]

Mine arrives today according to FedEx tracking. Can't wait. thanks for the write up, but one question. In your top photo, what is the disc with a few holes in it just down from the lid/instructions?

 

[Joe_CraftBeerTraders]

Mine arrives today according to FedEx tracking. Can't wait. thanks for the write up, but one question. In your top photo, what is the disc with a few holes in it just down from the lid/instructions?

Its actually a cover that is on the bottom of the conical. from what SsBrewTech told me the shipment you receive will already have that installed so you dont have to worry about it

 

[normonster]

Weldless valve and thermo port?

 

[Joe_CraftBeerTraders]

Weldless valve and thermo port?

The valve thread is welded on but the thermo port is weld less to mount their thermo well

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1436401400.787405.jpg

 

[njpatg]

While it looks nice I dont see the point in spending the money . My 10 gallon igloo mash tun will loose no more than 1 or 2 degrees in an hour provided i preheat

 

[madscientist451]

Yeah, I'm sticking with my cooler set up as well, but I don't see anything wrong with those who have the $ and want nice things.
It is very tempting.....

 

[pvpeacock]

Unlike an Igloo, it's nice and shiny. I actually received mine yesterday and I love it. It is very well made and is beefier than I expected. I cleaned it and passivated it last night and hope to get to use it this weekend. I particularly like the fact that there is a slight concave (not really a conical bottom like you would think of in a fermenter) on the bottom with the drain hole in the middle. That means there is no wort lost under the false bottom like in my current igloo set up.

 

[normonster]

Unlike an Igloo, it's nice and shiny. I actually received mine yesterday and I love it. It is very well made and is beefier than I expected. I cleaned it and passivated it last night and hope to get to use it this weekend. I particularly like the fact that there is a slight concave (not really a conical bottom like you would think of in a fermenter) on the bottom with the drain hole in the middle. That means there is no wort lost under the false bottom like in my current igloo set up.

What do you mean? Valve on side. Dip tube or second port on bottom?

 

[pvpeacock]

Inside the mash tun, the bottom is slightly concave. In the middle is a drain hole which goes down and then has a 90 degree bend in it which goes to the valve on the side of the mash tun. See attached.

 

[NervousDad]

The bottom is bowl shaped and it has a hole in the center. The value looks like it's coming out of the side but it's really below the base. They use the same design as stout tanks.

 

[Gameface]

If I upgrade from my 15g mash tun to a 20 I might strongly consider one of these. I'm wondering, though, for those of you that have them, how well do you think it would work to place the sparge port where the themo currently mounts and use a 90 degree elbow to bring it to the top then attach a lockline setup as a sparge arm?

I know my question is a little confusing, but basically I want to use the existing hole for the thermometer to pump in my strike and sparge water. Obviously I don't want to add it at the same level the hole is at so it would be routed to the top from inside the mash tun. If not done that way I'd have to go through the lid, which wouldn't be preferable for me as it would make checking the flow visually more of a PITA.

Really surprised they haven't added a port specifically for sparging, but whatever.

 

[Joe_CraftBeerTraders]

If I upgrade from my 15g mash tun to a 20 I might strongly consider one of these. I'm wondering, though, for those of you that have them, how well do you think it would work to place the sparge port where the themo currently mounts and use a 90 degree elbow to bring it to the top then attach a lockline setup as a sparge arm?

I know my question is a little confusing, but basically I want to use the existing hole for the thermometer to pump in my strike and sparge water. Obviously I don't want to add it at the same level the hole is at so it would be routed to the top from inside the mash tun. If not done that way I'd have to go through the lid, which wouldn't be preferable for me as it would make checking the flow visually more of a PITA.

Really surprised they haven't added a port specifically for sparging, but whatever.

The thermo port hole is designed for the 17mm thermowell they have. I havent experimented with putting a 1/2" coupling in there for using other hardware. Id have to check the fitment.

But to answer your question they have designed a sparge arm to work with the mash tun. Its actually a really cool design. Its a gravity designed system that mounts to the handle of the mash tun. It also has interchangeable "sparge gaskets" which change the spray pattern of the sparge water. It looks pretty sweet. Im hoping to have my hands on one of these in the coming weeks.

 

[Joe_CraftBeerTraders]

Here is the link for it

http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collections/accessories/products/sparge-arm-for-10-gal-infussion-mash-tun

 

[augiedoggy]

but then you have to recirculate and sparge with the top off of the mashtun right?