Spunding mistake, oxidized wort?

[dtashmore547]

Did you just make that part up?

no it is quite correct, like many bacteria they have to defend themselves against other organisms, do some research if you don't believe.

 

[Vale71]

You must have gotten yeast mixed up with penicillun. Either that or you're just making stuff up to appear knowledgeable.

 

[dtashmore547]

You must have gotten yeast mixed up with penicillun. Either that or you're just making stuff up to appear knowledgeable.

where do you think penicillin comes from? it originated in a form of mould, which is also a fungi as is yeast, do a bit of research you may learn a bit, there are many types of antibiotics most are deliver from either fungi or bacteria.

 

[Vale71]

Nonsense. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. May I suggest you try and learn something before you start posting. Unless trolling is what you're really after...

 

[dtashmore547]

Nonsense. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. May I suggest you try and learn something before you start posting. Unless trolling is what you're really after...

definitely have no intention of trolling, read this article, I could find a dozen on the same subject.
https://scholar.google.co.za/schola...vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&u=#p=H0oQlkxR-QIJI have worked on this principle all my brewing life, never bothered to sterilise my equipment during vigorous yeast activity and scrape of the brown protein scum off the top with a kitchen spoon, if I was wrong I would have plenty of failures.

 

[VikeMan]

where do you think penicillin comes from? it originated in a form of mould, which is also a fungi as is yeast, do a bit of research you may learn a bit, there are many types of antibiotics most are deliver from either fungi or bacteria.

Saccharomyces cerevisiae and Penicillium are not closely related. They are roughly as close to each other as humans are to rainbow trout. By your logic, we should be able to secrete glycoprotein slimes to thwart parasites.

A few strains of Sacch c., not ones typically used in brewing beer, are killer strains that produce a protein that's toxic to susceptible yeast strains. Even if we were to use those strains in beer brewing, they wouldn't protect a fermentation from contamination by bacteria.

definitely have no intention of trolling, read this article, I could find a dozen on the same subject.
https://scholar.google.co.za/schola...vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&u=#p=H0oQlkxR-QIJ

You didn't link an article. You linked a search results page. Which paper did you have in mind? Please be sure it's one that shows that a brewer's yeast strain makes antibiotics that are effective against brewhouse contaminants.

 

[dtashmore547]

Saccharomyces cerevisiae and Penicillium are not closely related. They are roughly as close to each other as humans are to rainbow trout. By your logic, we should be able to secrete glycoprotein slimes to thwart parasites.

A few strains of Sacch c., not ones typically used in brewing beer, are killer strains that produce a protein that's toxic to susceptible yeast strains. Even if we were to use those strains in beer brewing, they wouldn't protect a fermentation from contamination by bacteria.



You didn't link an article. You linked a search results page. Which paper did you have in mind? Please be sure it's one that shows that a brewer's yeast strain makes antibiotics that are effective against brewhouse contaminants.

I see you doing be convinced, but just as a last update here is a paper about the subject. it only mentions bakers yeast but most folk would except that as a close relative to our brewing stains.

 

[VikeMan]

I see you doing be convinced, but just as a last update here is a paper about the subject. it only mentions bakers yeast but most folk would except that as a close relative to our brewing stains.

Just two problems with that paper:
- Not a brewers yeast strain
- None of the pathogens tested are common brewhouse contaminants

You do realize that many, many people intentionally make sour and funky beers by co-pitching Lactobacillus (or other bacteria) and/or Brett yeast strains along with Sacch brewing strains, right? And at the end of those fermentations, the yeast(s) and the bacteria are still perfectly viable.

And countless beers intended to be clean have been ruined by unwanted microbes, in spite of the presence of healthy, live brewers yeast strains.

 

[dtashmore547]

at the end is the operative word, I mentioned that the yeast activity is high when the protective nature of yeast is operative, when the yeast activity dies down there will be no protection that is usually when ales get contaminated. the other period of contamination risk is before the ferment.

 

[VikeMan]

at the end is the operative word, I mentioned that the yeast activity is high when the protective nature of yeast is operative, when the yeast activity dies down there will be no protection that is usually when ales get contaminated. the other period of contamination risk is before the ferment.

When people make sour beers with a co-pitch, the pH reduction due to the bacteria is progressively evident. It doesn't just begin after the Brewers Yeast has finished. Even if the co-pitched bacteria somehow only became active after the Sacch yeast was finished, how would they have survived your claimed antibiotic in the first place?

 

[moorejl57]

Having worked in a microbiology lab in college (not trained in the science), I am leery about contamination having seen some really wicked stuff grow in less than sterile medium that wasn't autoclaved correctly. I won't even risk dry hopping, I use hop tea made in my aeropress with 180 degree sugar syrup at bottling time. The idea of pressurized fermentation has my curiosity piqued, since you end up with carbonated beer and could be bottled without the priming sugar and the wait time. I have not let beer sit on the yeast cake for more than 2 weeks, but my primaries are not well filtered and have a lot of trub.

 

[DTrain24]

I have let several beers sit on yeast cakes for 4-5 months and the beer tasted great. I have also just thrown the wort on top of the yeast cake many times, even once 4 times in a row without noticing any off flavors. I was too scared to try a 5th. I am not sure what the big worry is about however, my pallet may not be as refined to pick out the off flavors, but so far a lot of the things I have seen on forums to be worried about never turn out to be a problem. I BIAB and use the no chill method for the most part (my issue starting this thread was because I thought I could try a method of chilling my wort down that did not work well and caused me to be up too late!).

In 3 years of experimenting with brewing the only "bad" tasting one I have had was due to over hopping with a mix of hops that did not go well together, and early on brewing at high temperatures and causing the beer to taste a bit like the wort. However maybe in time I will start to notice the subtle differences like letting it sit on the yeast cake for months and what that does to the beer. I live in constant fear of the day I will get an infection in a brew but still not had any worries, knock on wood.

The idea of pressurized fermentation has my curiosity piqued, since you end up with carbonated beer and could be bottled without the priming sugar and the wait time

This is what I was after, why waste the Co2 from the fermentation? 2 processes at once, and reduced time overall. You just would not do a true yeasty ale like this. There is also fermenting and then attaching a spunding valve when it is a certain percentage away from completing, allowing the last bit of CO2 made to carbonate the beer. I have not tried this however, this was my first attempt at pressurized fermentation and spunding.

I will see how it tastes over the weekend and report back.

 

[moorejl57]

I have let several beers sit on yeast cakes for 4-5 months and the beer tasted great. I have also just thrown the wort on top of the yeast cake many times, even once 4 times in a row without noticing any off flavors. I was too scared to try a 5th. I am not sure what the big worry is about however, my pallet may not be as refined to pick out the off flavors, but so far a lot of the things I have seen on forums to be worried about never turn out to be a problem. I BIAB and use the no chill method for the most part (my issue starting this thread was because I thought I could try a method of chilling my wort down that did not work well and caused me to be up too late!).

In 3 years of experimenting with brewing the only "bad" tasting one I have had was due to over hopping with a mix of hops that did not go well together, and early on brewing at high temperatures and causing the beer to taste a bit like the wort. However maybe in time I will start to notice the subtle differences like letting it sit on the yeast cake for months and what that does to the beer. I live in constant fear of the day I will get an infection in a brew but still not had any worries, knock on wood.



This is what I was after, why waste the Co2 from the fermentation? 2 processes at once, and reduced time overall. You just would not do a true yeasty ale like this. There is also fermenting and then attaching a spunding valve when it is a certain percentage away from completing, allowing the last bit of CO2 made to carbonate the beer. I have not tried this however, this was my first attempt at pressurized fermentation and spunding.

I will see how it tastes over the weekend and report back.

If you take a look at some DrHans videos, he ferments at 35 psi without issue and the carbonation level is at 2.5 volumes at room temp. The only thing holding me back is temp control, so time to try out that Omega Yeast Lutra Kveik.

 

[DTrain24]

Those look like great videos... looks like I know what I will be watching for the next month.

Update on the brew. I cold crashed it yesterday, although the beer sample was only 50f, so not fully cold crashed. But it was drinkable although green tasting that I usually notice before cold crashing and carbing. So overall i think it just needs a day or 2 more in the cold and it should be good to go. I will report back when I try it again.

But overall my process was as follows
Brewed wort Sunday night BIAB, let cool down in fridge.
Transferred to corny keg (2.5 gallon sized)
Pitched dry packet of 34/70 lager yeast at 3am Monday morning. Pressurized to 22psi and set spunding valve.
Cold crashed Thursday night at 5pm, set psi to 12.
Sampled friday 5pm - carbed, drinkable but green.

 

[DTrain24]

Follow up. After two days of cold crashing the beer tasted great (first day only got the beer to 50f). I don't know for sure that it isn't contaminated and slowly getting soured, but so far it is good.

Pressurized fermentation worked great. I saw Dr. Hans videos, he did one in 3 days. I am not in a rush to do that now that I have tried this out, but it is interesting that it is possible.

thanks for the replies