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Splitting smack pack over two 1 gal batches (Hefeweizen and weizenbock)

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Roobiedoobiedoo

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So I'm about to order my next batch of grains. I'm planning to do a weizenbock and hefeweizen after that. There's a lot of similar ingredients, so I figured I'd order them together and brew them consecutively.
I'm wondering if I should save half the smack pack (Weihenstephan) for the second batch? I know that 1 smackpack for a 1 gallon batch is probably overkill and I've heard overpitching can reduce esters (I'd like to keep a nice balance, clove, banana etc)
I could also just pitch on whatever kind of yeast cake remains (don't know how much there would be, this will be my first low-flocculant weizen yeast).
Also, should I pitch more for the weizenbock since it'll have more work to do? Is this yeast gonna be able to stand up to the 7.5-8% alcohol? So many questions!

Any help would be great, I apologize for the rambling.
 
Given that one smack pack is typically sufficient for a 5 gallon batch, I don't see why splitting one pack over 2 1 gallon batches should give you any problems, even if one is a bit higher in alcohol. Worst case, and technically better practice, make a starter and split between the two batches and shouldn't have any issues. What yeast are you planning to use?
 
There will be plenty of yeast cake from the batch don't worry. It's just that it takes longer for the rest of it to settle out.

The yeast is good up to 10% according to Wyeast http://www.wyeastlab.com/com_b_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=135 so you should be all set there.

I don't see any problem splitting the pack as long as you keep the remaining part as sanity as possible before pitching it. Maybe a small mason jar or a small flask or something.

Also, be warned that this yeast needs a bunch of head space as the krausen is quite "invasive" lets say hahahah. So don't try to ferment a whole gallon in a 1 gal wine jug without some blowoff tube hooked up.

Good Luck!
 
So even split it's not too much yeast? That would have been my thought. I would have suggested making an additional batch or increasing the volume.
 
If we assume 100% vitality and that the Hef will be 1.050: Yeastcalc.com says for 1 gal of 1.050 wort you need 35billion cells. Half the pack is 50billion which is "overpitching" but not by a big enough amount to really matter. I believe it really only becomes a problem at 4x overpitch. If we assume the dunkelweizen is 1.070 then you need 48 billion cells.

Really a smack pack in 5 gallons of beer is almost always underpitching. The recommended pitching rate for 5 gallons of even 1.040 beer is 140Billion cells.
 
Maybe he ought to pour it into a jar and try to use 2/5 in the heffe?
 
Maybe he ought to pour it into a jar and try to use 2/5 in the heffe?

That'd also work. But since neither batch would be severely over or under pitched I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make in the end. If it were me I would probably make a small starter of like 500ml the day before, or even morning of, in a flask just to make it easy to try to split in half at pitching time. If I was doing this then yeah I'd probably try to save a bit more of it for the dunkelweizen too. It's hard to tell how much is "half" when you cant see inside those smack packs.
 
That's why I considered pouring it into a jar. Mark ~2/5 and pour.
 
I'm somewhat of a perfectionist who has tried to calm down and let things be. So there's the part of me that'd go to that extreme, but maybe not make a starter.
 
or use white labs and use the vial as the "jar" for marking. It would have to be a tiny jar to measure 2/5 without adding any volume. I don't imagine there's more than 50-100ml in a smack pack to begin with, though I've never measured it either.
 
I'm planning to use Wyeast Weihenstephan Weizen 3068.
I saw a video on YouTube detailing how to harvest and store the yeast (in a mason jar under pre-boiled water) so I'm leaning toward doing the 2/5 hefe, 3/5 weizenbock (as rodwha suggested) and storing it that way. It would only be for 2-3 weeks.
On a bit of a tangent from the original question, I sampled a Schneider Weisse Tap 6 Unser Aventinus, and found it has much more liquorice taste then I'm after. I'm aiming for something closer to Weihenstephaner Vitus, with the more farmiliar clove/banana flavour. Any tips to achieve this?
Also, thanks for all the advice. I try to research as much as I can, but some of these things are too in depth for google to be of much use. This has been a great resource for a noob like myself.
 
If you haven't already, you should listen to the Jamil Show Podcasts for the Hef Episode and the Dunkelweizen episode. It certainly won't hurt and he might have some tidbits of info for you on what to do to achieve different flavor profiles with that yeast. I seem to remember them talking about that sort of thing in those episodes. http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show
 
Funny you mention that, I was listening to an episode of their's while I read your reply. I'll look for those specific episodes, thanks.
 
If you are wanting to save (harvest) yeast you might want to, instead of washing, make a larger starter (1.5 the size) and decant the 1/2 bit for a nice clean strain of yeast without the mess and hassle of washing. It seems there's much less chance for it to get contaminated or for it to mutate any where near as much.
 
I meant to store the remaining 2/5 for the hefe, from the smack pack. The starter is a good idea tho. I haven't done one before, so it's time to learn I guess. I found the weizenbock Jamil/brewing with style episode (buried deep in the back catalogue) so that's helping.
 
A typical starter is 4 oz of DME to about 1 qt of water. That's close enough for me.
 
You can also use 1g of DME for every 10ml if water and scale to whatever size you want. I believe this gives you 1.037 wort.
 
I don't really understand the need for a starter over two gallons. What is the advantage over just a smack pack?
 
You don't. I was just suggesting it to make splitting the volume easier. There isn't much liquid to begin with in those smack packs so measuring could be difficult. Plus if you made a starter in a smaller flask, you'd have a bit of "beer" protecting the yeast for a week or two, which is arguably a bit safer for the yeast than just saving the few ML of smack pack liquid for the next batch.

The other reason would be if your smack pack is on the older side you could be looking at low vitality. If your pack is a month or two old it could be down towards the 50% viable range. A starter would help build back up the yeast counts.
 
My thoughts on making a starter was so that you could save some clean yeast for another day instead of washing it later.
 
Smacked the smack pack of Wyeast weihenstephaner 3068 when I started my brew. I forgot to order DME so I pre boiled some water and sanitized a mason jar and measuring cup. When it came time to pitch I measured the yeast. I estimated 3/5 of the pack to be 1/4 cup. I poured the 2/5 into about half a mason jar of off boiled water @ 65F and pitched the 3/5 into my weizenbock.
 
So the experiment was successful. The weizenbock I brewed on jan 12th is bottled 1.092-1.013 from 3/5 a smackpack of yeast. Last night (feb 1st) I brewed a hefeweizen and pitched the remaining 2/5 of yeast I saved. 10 hours later and we have lift off. Krausen is just starting to form. The OG was 1.056. I pitched the yeast @ 56F
 
So the experiment was successful. The weizenbock I brewed on jan 12th is bottled 1.092-1.013 from 3/5 a smackpack of yeast. Last night (feb 1st) I brewed a hefeweizen and pitched the remaining 2/5 of yeast I saved. 10 hours later and we have lift off. Krausen is just starting to form. The OG was 1.056. I pitched the yeast @ 56F

Im going to revive this thread! :tank: How big of a batch of hef was it and how big is the fermenter? Im planning on brewing a hef and really want some nice banana flavors but not sure if id be able to ferment in my 1.5 gallon bucket or if i should wait for my 5 gallon big mouth bubbler to open up.
 
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