Split wort saison/sour saison

[bigbeer]

So I had a small 2 part question.
1. Can I just take any Saison recipe (10gallon), split it and put saison yeast in one and sour the second half or do I need a specific grain build for sour?

2. Anyone have a recipe for this?

 

[beergolf]

The grain bill for a sour is not really that important.

The only problem with your plan is that lacto does not work well in a higher IBU wort. So where a saison may have more IBU's a sour usually has less than 10 IBU's so it does not inhibit the lacto.

A saison with less than 10 IBU's would be too sweet.

If you want you could just split the batch and add brett to half. That would not sour it but add a nice funk to the saison. I do it all the time. Brett works just fine in a higher IBU brew.

 

[Quaker]

You could boil for 30 minutes with a 5-10 IBU hop addition, run off the half to be soured. Then proceed with the other half with appropriate hopping for the saison yeast.

 

[m00ps]

Ive split a number of saison batches between clean and brett'd/soured variants. Turns out great and its cool to compare the two. Just try to minimize headspace in your secondary for the non-clean version

any saison grain bill would work fine. As @beergolf said, with a sour, the bugs really take over the entire beer. The starting grain bill is almost secondary to the sour character in the overall flavor. But I would want a good saison grain bill for the clean portion

 

[TAK]

I will sometimes mash and collect two batches worth of wort, but boil each separately to control IBUs for the clean and the sour versions. It's a longer day for sure, especially if you're doing 90 minute boils because you may have pilsner in your saison grist, but it's a good way to get two beers from the same batch, and give each the attention they deserve to be done well.

 

[chefchris]

I will sometimes mash and collect two batches worth of wort, but boil each separately to control IBUs for the clean and the sour versions. It's a longer day for sure, especially if you're doing 90 minute boils because you may have pilsner in your saison grist, but it's a good way to get two beers from the same batch, and give each the attention they deserve to be done well.

Not to get off topic but have you ever tried a 60 minute with Pils? I switched years ago and haven't looked back. I also do plenty of no boil beers with mostly Pils with no problems. Save you some time and propane.

 

[TAK]

I haven't, but I don't mind the extra boil time to err on the safe side. Actually, I've been considering taking all my boils to 90 min, just for consistent process, regardless of grist.

I believe that no boils with pils is theoretically okay. I don't know the science off the top of my head, but the DMS precursor requires a boil (or a certain high temp) to essentially activate. Without that "activation," you're in the clear. But if you boil at all, then you need to continue boiling to drive off the DMS. 60 min may be fine, but it also probably depends on the maltster, cultivar, etc., of the specific pilsner malt being used.

 

[chefchris]

I haven't, but I don't mind the extra boil time to err on the safe side. Actually, I've been considering taking all my boils to 90 min, just for consistent process, regardless of grist.

I believe that no boils with pils is theoretically okay. I don't know the science off the top of my head, but the DMS precursor requires a boil (or a certain high temp) to essentially activate. Without that "activation," you're in the clear. But if you boil at all, then you need to continue boiling to drive off the DMS. 60 min may be fine, but it also probably depends on the maltster, cultivar, etc., of the specific pilsner malt being used.

I've done 0, 5, 10, 20, and 30 minute boils with Pils. I use to use Weyermann a lot but now I mostly use Rahr. I've read all that too about the precursors but after doing it for a few years it is completely out of my mind. Not that I don't believe it, it just does not happen to me or my brewing buds.

 

[TAK]

Hey, whatever works. If shortening the brewday is valuable to you and you don't perceive any detriment in you're beer as a result, no reason not to.

 

[m00ps]

Not to get off topic but have you ever tried a 60 minute with Pils? I switched years ago and haven't looked back. I also do plenty of no boil beers with mostly Pils with no problems. Save you some time and propane.

I have done 1 90 minute boil with pilsner malt (weyermann if i remember right) and +70 60minute boils with various pilsner malts (rahr, briess, weyermann, bestmalz, great western). I have found no discernable difference in flavor between the 60 and 90 min boils. No DMS