Splash racking cider to get rid of hydrogen sulfide?!?

[dallasdb]

So this has me confused.

After beer is fermented you are supposed to be careful when transferring because if you disturb it too much it could get oxygenated.

But I've read that for cider, one way to help get rid or hydrogen sulfide (rhino farts) is that you can splash rack it even after fermentation?!?!?

Do you not have to worry about oxygenation with ciders?

I guess cider is more closely related to wine but hearing about splash racking after fermentation blew my mind!

 

[bernardsmith]

Splash racking helps remove the presence of hydrogen sulfide. Hydrogen sulfide is a problem that can make your cider undrinkable. So you have a choice - you can risk oxidation by splash racking or you can avoid all risk but have a cider that smells like rotten eggs. The best option is to avoid the production of hydrogen sulfide by ensuring the yeast has all the nutrients the yeast needs.
But all that said, if your cider is still fermenting then splash racking will add oxygen and the yeast need oxygen. If the fermentation has ceased because there is no residual sugar then adding oxygen may result in oxidation but wine (cider) is not the same as ale or beer. Oxidation of fruit is similar to rust in metal in the length of time it takes to become noticeable - and with wines and cider oxidation does not make the liquor undrinkable - it makes grape wine , for example, taste like sherry.

 

[mwilcox]

I would take a sample and add an old copper penny (pre-1981 or thereabouts if I remember? Obviously clean the penny first, mkay?!) to the glass and see if that helps remove some or all of the off aroma you are getting.

if you keg and the amount isn't too high you can try the ol' stinky lager method of scrubbing by bubbling CO2 through it.

 

[bernardsmith]

I would take a sample and add an old copper penny (pre-1981 or thereabouts if I remember? Obviously clean the penny first, mkay?!) to the glass and see if that helps remove some or all of the off aroma you are getting.

if you keg and the amount isn't too high you can try the ol' stinky lager method of scrubbing by bubbling CO2 through it.

Rather than drop a penny in the carboy you might also rack through a filter of copper scrubbing "wool" - Never had to try this - and I have some concerns because the idea is to allow the sulfur in the hydrogen sulfide bind with the copper to produce copper sulfate (and water) but isn't copper sulfate a poison that affects the kidneys and other organs - and while a lethal dose is quite large (10g) I am not sure how much copper sulfate is produced and ingested if - IF - one routinely produces hydrogen sulfide and routinely uses copper to remove the smell - and then drinks that wine in quantity over time.

 

[mwilcox]

Rather than drop a penny in the carboy you might also rack through a filter of copper scrubbing "wool" - Never had to try this - and I have some concerns because the idea is to allow the sulfur in the hydrogen sulfide bind with the copper to produce copper sulfate (and water) but isn't copper sulfate a poison that affects the kidneys and other organs - and while a lethal dose is quite large (10g) I am not sure how much copper sulfate is produced and ingested if - IF - one routinely produces hydrogen sulfide and routinely uses copper to remove the smell - and then drinks that wine in quantity over time.

well, I did say to take a sample and add the penny to that. Basically, let's make sure what they are dealing with, and that it's going to work, before treating the whole thing. I've seen it work before, have had it work before on my own on limited basis, but I don't have experience with high levels of sulfur.

 

[ten80]

I just had some oxidized cider that I had left fermenting in a growler for a year... mmmm, cardboard.

I have experience with two alternatives to splash-racking using CO2 to strip out the H2S:

1. Bubble CO2 through fermenter, using diffusion stone, if possible. Alternatively, keg the cider and purge the keg using the liquid dip tube while periodically venting. This is a common method used for lagers.

2. Swirl fermenter to off-gas CO2 and strip out H2S. This is only really viable if some fermentation is still underway.

As for the use of copper, it appears that the addition of copper sulfate can be used to remove sulfides as described in this publication by Morebeer:

https://www.morebeer.com/public/wine/Product%20Directions/CuSO4.pdf

and also this research paper from 1970:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1971.tb03367.x/pdf

The result of copper sulfate additions is an insoluble copper sulfide precipitate.

The use of elemental copper is not the best idea because you cannot control how much copper enters the solution, particularly in a lower-pH environment. Elemental copper is toxic.

 

[dallasdb]

I've read that the copper can also give off flavors and can be difficult to get it right.

I transferred to secondary and the smell was pretty faint. I'm just used to beer fermentation smelling better!

I didn't splash rack. I figure the smell will fade.

At this point the cider is done fermenting. It's been about 10 days and the hydrometer reading was 1.06 which I'm shocked because I think the lowest I've seen in my beer brewing is 1.09.

EDIT:

Crap... I didn't realize that ciders can ferment down to 1.00?!?!?

The stupid kit didn't have SG or FG listed.

UGH... last night I transferred it to secondary and cold crashed it to 50 degrees.

Oh well. It is what it is. I'm going to add the mixed berry flavor and 1/2 the sweetener tonight and keg on Thursday night.

 

[ten80]

Ciders can ferment down to below 1.000, but keep your keg cold and you can even use a fining agent such as gelatin to reduce the amount of yeast in suspension and slow any re-fermentation.

 

[BILTIT]

Taste it before you add any sweetener, at 1.060 fg that is dang sweet already! (unless you meant 1.006)

 

[dallasdb]

Taste it before you add any sweetener, at 1.060 fg that is dang sweet already! (unless you meant 1.006)

Yes I meant 1.006

1.060 is a higher gravity than the OG.

I tasted it and it tastes pretty sweet to me but it's for SWMBO.

I'm probably only going to add 1/3 of the sweetener.

 

[BILTIT]

ok , i wasn't sure. I have some apple based ferm's that start at 1.140 or higher (not sure if these would classify as a cider though, except ice cider) so 1.060 could have been possible.