Spike's upcoming eBIAB system

[IanMC]

I had an email conversation with someone at Spike about 2 weeks ago, where they stated:

We'll be introducing a line of steam condenser lids for our kettles in the near future (before summer)! Stay tuned on social media for updates regarding this as well.

Something to the same effect was also said in a comment reply on their Facebook. I can't wait!

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I had an email conversation with someone at Spike about 2 weeks ago, where they stated:

Something to the same effect was also said in a comment reply on their Facebook. I can't wait!

YESSSSS!

 

[IanMC]

YESSSSS!

I know! I am planning an upgrade on my system which includes replacing my BIAB bag with the Spike basket and adding the steam condenser. I've got a 10 gal Spike kettle that I use on an induction cooktop. I'm hoping that these upgrades will make for the ultimate indoor small scale brewing system.

Please, Spike Brewing, DON'T MAKE US WAIT ANY LONGER!

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I know! I am planning an upgrade on my system which includes replacing my BIAB bag with the Spike basket and adding the steam condenser. I've got a 10 gal Spike kettle that I use on an induction cooktop. I'm hoping that these upgrades will make for the ultimate indoor small scale brewing system.

Please, Spike Brewing, DON'T MAKE US WAIT ANY LONGER!

Sitting in front of this right now!

 

[IanMC]

Sitting in front of this right now!
View attachment 669794

Nice! Is that the 120v or 208v Adcraft? I've had my eye on the 208v for a long time, but I'm always worried about overvolting it on a 240v outlet, and 240-to-208 stepdown transformers are stupidly expensive.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

208. I ran it at 240 for one brew (no cube) and it worked great. Today was test run of a step mash with the cube....it didn't like what the cube was doing while holding temp.

 

[IanMC]

208. I ran it at 240 for one brew (no cube) and it worked great. Today was test run of a step mash with the cube....it didn't like what the cube was doing while holding temp.

Sorry, what's the cube?

 

[McKnuckle]

Auber Cube, as shown in the picture to the left of the Adcraft.

 

[IanMC]

I see. Thanks

So you used the cube to control mash temps by cycling your Adcraft on and off, and you weren't happy with the results? Could you elaborate on that? I've been looking to do the exact same thing

 

[Jsmith2154]

I know! I am planning an upgrade on my system which includes replacing my BIAB bag with the Spike basket and adding the steam condenser. I've got a 10 gal Spike kettle that I use on an induction cooktop. I'm hoping that these upgrades will make for the ultimate indoor small scale brewing system.

Please, Spike Brewing, DON'T MAKE US WAIT ANY LONGER!

Sitting in front of this right now!
View attachment 669794

Not to thread jack but do either of you have links to more details on your system? I’ve been thinking about going electric and wondering if I could manage with an induction hot plate or go the full electric kettle route.

 

[IanMC]

Not to thread jack but do either of you have links to more details on your system? I’ve been thinking about going electric and wondering if I could manage with an induction hot plate or go the full electric kettle route.

I don't have a link, but I can describe my system for you, and provide a picture.

Firstly, I mostly do 3 gallon batches. I have a 10 gal custom Spike kettle with TC ports for the drain, thermowell, whirlpool, and a recirculation return. I use a Blichmann Riptide pump. I have a cheapy Duxtop 1800w ($50), which has been adequate for my needs, if a little slow to ramp up. I use a Wilserbrewer bag with a cutout for the upper TC port. Even though the cooktop is a little weak, once I've mashed in and am recirculating, I just keep it set to the lowest power setting to provide some extra heat, and the temperature stays fairly constant.

The Duxtop has a cheap plastic chassis, and I don't trust it to hold the weight of the kettle + contents, so I built a support for the kettle out of 2x4s and 4x4s, with a lab jack to raise the cooktop up to the kettle. I just raise it until it's firmly pressed against the kettle, but not holding any actual weight. One day I'll get a nice induction plate - an Adcraft or Avantco - and will ditch the support system then, but in the meantime it works well and is kind of cool I guess.

The boil is not very energetic, but it moves the wort around and gets hot enough. I don't have an easy way to hook up a 240v unit at the moment, but for now, this unit is getting me by. Still, if you have 240v convenient, definitely go with a better, all stainless option like the Adcraft C208V or Avantco IC3500.

Let me know if you have any questions about the specifics. Like with any brew system, there are a lot of extra components and calibration that isn't immediately obvious.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Not to thread jack but do either of you have links to more details on your system? I’ve been thinking about going electric and wondering if I could manage with an induction hot plate or go the full electric kettle route.

OK....so You've seen the picture of mine above. It's an Adcraft 208v manual induction burner but I'm running it at 240v. I was concerned about this and literally debated for several years, but I've read a number of threads about others doing this with no issues. I've done two manual brews (just the induction burner replacing my propane, mash in a cooler) with great success. I really like the burner. Ramp times are fast and I get a nice boil of 7g of wort at about 75% power.

This last weekend I tried to add an Auber cube to the system. Others have had luck controlling the Adcraft with a controller, so I wasn't expecting issues, but my water only test run on Saturday was a failure. Ramp to initial strike temp was fine, but as soon as it got to hold mode, the Adcraft started alarming and had an error code on the display. The manual said that it was an overvoltage alarm, but that makes no sense given that I've run it at full output without the cube with zero issues. I think the Auber was cycling power and wigging it out.

I have a thread in the electric brewing forum asking for advice. If you're thinking about running a controller with an induction burner, you have to go manual induction,which pretty much means Adcraft. You might want to follow that thread to see what transpires.

I'll try to post back here if/when I get it working. Worst case, I switch to a ripple element, but I'm pretty committed to getting the induction working if at all possible.

 

[applescrap]

Meh. At 460 the anvil foundry seems like a good option.

 

[matt_m]

Both have their place (and are sitting side by side in my brewery.) An average 1.050 OG beer in the Foundry, you are pretty maxed out on capacity on a 5 gallon batch doing a full volume mash. Also with a lot of hops, if you don't use a hop spider you are going to get a lot of hop matter in the fermenter because of the narrow cylinder. My other system is almost exactly what they are going to sell with a 15 gallon kettle except I'm using a bag. I like what I see so far on the basket though and might consider buying one. After whirlpool even a highly hopped NEIPA I get very little trub in 5.5 gallons transferred to the fermenter. The Foundry is way easier to clean up though so if I want a quicker brew day, I tend to use that.

 

[IanMC]

OK....so You've seen the picture of mine above. It's an Adcraft 208v manual induction burner but I'm running it at 240v. I was concerned about this and literally debated for several years, but I've read a number of threads about others doing this with no issues. I've done two manual brews (just the induction burner replacing my propane, mash in a cooler) with great success. I really like the burner. Ramp times are fast and I get a nice boil of 7g of wort at about 75% power.

This last weekend I tried to add an Auber cube to the system. Others have had luck controlling the Adcraft with a controller, so I wasn't expecting issues, but my water only test run on Saturday was a failure. Ramp to initial strike temp was fine, but as soon as it got to hold mode, the Adcraft started alarming and had an error code on the display. The manual said that it was an overvoltage alarm, but that makes no sense given that I've run it at full output without the cube with zero issues. I think the Auber was cycling power and wigging it out.

I have a thread in the electric brewing forum asking for advice. If you're thinking about running a controller with an induction burner, you have to go manual induction,which pretty much means Adcraft. You might want to follow that thread to see what transpires.

I'll try to post back here if/when I get it working. Worst case, I switch to a ripple element, but I'm pretty committed to getting the induction working if at all possible.

I've gone through a similar journey as you. I've been considering getting the C208V for years, as it seems like the best option for a fully controllable induction mashing system, but am always afraid to use it on 240v. I keep checking here every few months to see what the verdict is from those braver than me, and have indeed seen several people who've used it successfully. Still... it worries me. I actually contacted Adcraft and asked if it could be used on 240v, hoping that there would be some input tolerance that would make it okay, but was informed that it could be 208 only. Now... that's the company's official "safe" stance on things, so I understand there is likely a lot of gray area around the truth from an actual engineering perspective.

Another option I've considered is to modify a 240v induction plate in some way to allow for external control. The most hardcore way would be to bypass the control circuit entirely and strike the induction coil directly... but that seems like way too much work and quite dangerous/likely to fail. The second, safer option would be to augment/modify the control panel to simulate keypresses externally. Even "on/off" should be sufficient, as most induction plates will start up at 50% power when turned on. That's fine if all you need to do is inject some heat for a minute or so. Finally, what might actually be the best option IMO, because it doesn't involve modifying the device at all, but is a little clumsier, would be to build something which mechanically controls the control panel from a computer source. Something like a servo or stepper motor. With the Adcraft, it actually wouldn't be too difficult to attach a motor to the shaft of the power knob on the front, and then just calibrate its position across the power spectrum. Another benefit of these control-panel-intercept solutions is that, since the main cooktop circuit is never completely cut (as in a traditional on/off control circuit), the fan keeps running. I've noticed that on most cooktops, the fan keeps running for some time after the coil is de-energized, which helps to cool the unit down.

On another note, with your Auber, was it configured to power the Adcraft as a simple on/off switch, or is it trying to modulate the voltage/power output as you would with an actual PID controller hooked up to an immersion element? I ask because resistive heating elements are modulated by varying the power applied to them as a function of their voltage/current, but an induction plate requires full power all the time which is then further modulated by the internal circuitry. If your Cube was setup for an immersion element, it would probably cause the kind of error you described, with the Adcraft freaking out over the input power being unstable.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I've gone through a similar journey as you. I've been considering getting the C208V for years, as it seems like the best option for a fully controllable induction mashing system, but am always afraid to use it on 240v. I keep checking here every few months to see what the verdict is from those braver than me, and have indeed seen several people who've used it successfully. Still... it worries me. I actually contacted Adcraft and asked if it could be used on 240v, hoping that there would be some input tolerance that would make it okay, but was informed that it could be 208 only. Now... that's the company's official "safe" stance on things, so I understand there is likely a lot of gray area around the truth from an actual engineering perspective.

Another option I've considered is to modify a 240v induction plate in some way to allow for external control. The most hardcore way would be to bypass the control circuit entirely and strike the induction coil directly... but that seems like way too much work and quite dangerous/likely to fail. The second, safer option would be to augment/modify the control panel to simulate keypresses externally. Even "on/off" should be sufficient, as most induction plates will start up at 50% power when turned on. That's fine if all you need to do is inject some heat for a minute or so. Finally, what might actually be the best option IMO, because it doesn't involve modifying the device at all, but is a little clumsier, would be to build something which mechanically controls the control panel from a computer source. Something like a servo or stepper motor. With the Adcraft, it actually wouldn't be too difficult to attach a motor to the shaft of the power knob on the front, and then just calibrate its position across the power spectrum. Another benefit of these control-panel-intercept solutions is that, since the main cooktop circuit is never completely cut (as in a traditional on/off control circuit), the fan keeps running. I've noticed that on most cooktops, the fan keeps running for some time after the coil is de-energized, which helps to cool the unit down.

On another note, with your Auber, was it configured to power the Adcraft as a simple on/off switch, or is it trying to modulate the voltage/power output as you would with an actual PID controller hooked up to an immersion element? I ask because resistive heating elements are modulated by varying the power applied to them as a function of their voltage/current, but an induction plate requires full power all the time which is then further modulated by the internal circuitry. If your Cube was setup for an immersion element, it would probably cause the kind of error you described, with the Adcraft freaking out over the input power being unstable.

So far, running at 240v does not seem to be a problem. I'm very happy with the way it's working in that regard.

As far as how the cube is set up to regulate the output, my understanding is that the DSPR320 does not use a reduced voltage for lower power, it merely cycles power on/off such that it's energized at full voltage, but only a percentage of the time. It does this with a solid state relay. Given that, you should not see anything but 240v, but it could be cycled on/off.

That being said, I think I have it set to output 100% power when energized, so the behavior I'd expect would be this:

If temp is less than set value +/- allowed range or higher
Power is on to induction unit
else
Power is off to induction unit

So I'd see 240 volts until it got to set temp. Then it would cycle off and stay off until it dropped below the set temp. At that point, it would turn back on until it reached the set temp, then back off.

Always on or off at 240v with no rapid cycling.

I'm guessing that I'm missing something. I'm coming to the conclusion that I may be out of luck with this approach.

 

[LittleRiver]

Have ya'll seen this thread?

 

[IanMC]

Have ya'll seen this thread?

Damn... that's extremely hardcore. Definitely not something I am able to attempt at the moment, but maybe an aspirational goal for the future. Thanks for the tip!

In the meantime, I'm going to quote something I said in Hwk-I-St8's other thread:

Let me just say that it is a totally missed business opportunity that there are, as of yet, no induction plates designed for/marketed to homebrewers. Commercial examples with high-precision built-in temperature control are prohibitively expensive, yet how hard is it really to add an external probe and precise manual temperature control, when most of the tech is already built in, just locked to preset values? All we would need is something like an IC3500, but ditch the internal thermoprobe, add a jack for an external one, and give us an LCD screen with up and down buttons for the temperature. I see no reason why 1* temperature steps should be so difficult to implement. It's just a variable in a PID algorithm.

If someone (Blichmann, Spike, SS, etc.) built this, even at a moderate price premium, we would all go nuts for it and throw money at them. Induction is really the best heating source for anything less than 15 gallons or so. Simple, clean, elegant; no extra ports, protruding elements, things to leak or require cleaning. Please take our money!

 

[Jsmith2154]

Great info all! Now I just need to digest it all and decide how much equipment I want to switch out.

 

[jhnmdahl]

Spike just sent initial pricing on the 20 gallon BIAB basket or system:

20g Basket and 20g Full System Initial Pricing*
[may be subject to change before launch]
Product Price
20g NPT Basket Only
Basket +single NPT fitting on top $300
20g TC Basket Only
Basket +single TC fitting on top $325
20g NPT Full System
Kettle, Basket, Controller, Pump and Hardware, Chiller optional. $1,775
20g TC Full System
Kettle, Basket, Controller, Pump and Hardware. Chiller optional.
$1,975

If the 15 gallon is proportionally cheaper (i.e., under $1500 with the controller, pump, and hardware included), it might be a tempting one-stop, high end solution for my typical 5+ gallon batches.

 

[craigmw]

So far, running at 240v does not seem to be a problem. I'm very happy with the way it's working in that regard.

As far as how the cube is set up to regulate the output, my understanding is that the DSPR320 does not use a reduced voltage for lower power, it merely cycles power on/off such that it's energized at full voltage, but only a percentage of the time. It does this with a solid state relay. Given that, you should not see anything but 240v, but it could be cycled on/off.

That being said, I think I have it set to output 100% power when energized, so the behavior I'd expect would be this:

If temp is less than set value +/- allowed range or higher
Power is on to induction unit
else
Power is off to induction unit

So I'd see 240 volts until it got to set temp. Then it would cycle off and stay off until it dropped below the set temp. At that point, it would turn back on until it reached the set temp, then back off.

Always on or off at 240v with no rapid cycling.

I'm guessing that I'm missing something. I'm coming to the conclusion that I may be out of luck with this approach.

Unlike most PID controllers (of which the DSPR320 is not as it uses a fuzzy logic algorithm to cycle the power at a specific PWM level), the DSPR320 switches power much more quickly. In fact, the DSPR320 detects the AC zero cross and implements its PWM function between each 1/2 cycle of the AC wave. Thus, it is switching much faster than a typical PID controller (including other Auber PID controllers) which switches on and off on the order of about once a second or so instead of 120 times per second as the EZ-Boil controllers do. The advantage to the EZ-Boil's approach is that it approximates analog output, which theoretically could help to reduce burning of the BIAB bag or scorching of wort on the heater coil (though in my experience, it still does when ramping up at 100% output). The main downside is that it wont play nice with the electronics in your induction plate. I don't believe there is a way to disable this feature on the EZ-Boil line of controllers so you may consider purchasing a 1/16 DIN PID controller to replace the EZ-Boil. My bet is that a standard PID controller would work fine with your induction plate.

 

[9Kegs]

I received this email today from SB:

We're excited to pass on the news that Larry, from Beer-N-BBQ by Larry, will be streaming a brew day on a prototype model of the Spike single vessel system. He's done a 1st Look product video already, but now he's going to really put the system to the test. Tune in to see how it works from start to finish and get an early glimpse of the newest Spike product in action!
Click below to go live with Beer-N-BBQ by Larry tomorrow at 12pm CST to see a full brew day on our single vessel brewing system!

 

[craigmw]

Spike just sent initial pricing on the 20 gallon BIAB basket or system:

20g Basket and 20g Full System Initial Pricing*
[may be subject to change before launch]
Product Price
20g NPT Basket Only
Basket +single NPT fitting on top $300
20g TC Basket Only
Basket +single TC fitting on top $325
20g NPT Full System
Kettle, Basket, Controller, Pump and Hardware, Chiller optional. $1,775
20g TC Full System
Kettle, Basket, Controller, Pump and Hardware. Chiller optional.
$1,975

If the 15 gallon is proportionally cheaper (i.e., under $1500 with the controller, pump, and hardware included), it might be a tempting one-stop, high end solution for my typical 5+ gallon batches.

I am very interested in the BIAB basket to fit in my 22 gallon BrewBuilt eKettle. Unfortunately, it looks like it only fits down 16.36 inches into the kettle. Since the inside height of the 22 gallon kettle is about 21 inches, that means that the bottom of the basket would be roughly at the 5 gallon mark in this kettle, limiting its usefulness for typical 5 gallon batches. I wonder if Spike plans to make these for larger kettles? Nevertheless, this looks very interesting!

 

[hezagenius]

For those of you that do 5 gallon batches, are you going with the 15 gallon version? Or are you giving yourself some ability to go big and getting the 20 gallon version?

 

[sleev-les]

For those of you that do 5 gallon batches, are you going with the 15 gallon version? Or are you giving yourself some ability to go big and getting the 20 gallon version?

My plan would be to get the 20G. I already have a Grainfather for 5's. Next system would be to go bigger.

 

[ranchonodinero]

Will there be options for camlock or is it all tri clover?

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

For those of you that do 5 gallon batches, are you going with the 15 gallon version? Or are you giving yourself some ability to go big and getting the 20 gallon version?

I would think the 15 g version would be big enough for pretty much all 5G batches. You'd probably have to sparge for a huge (1.1 + gravity) beer, but I'd want to sparge for that anyway or your efficiency would be in the toilet.

I'd be concerned that the 20G would not be able to do 5G low gravity beers like the 3.5% ordinary bitter I brewed a month ago. I would think there would be too much volume below the basket. I could be wrong, but 20G seems huge for 5G batches.

 

[k-os]

Will there be options for camlock or is it all tri clover?

You can use a tri-clamp to camlock adapter. I use these.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/camtc15.htm

I believe the kit they are selling would ship with their ball-lock style quick-disconnects.

 

[NewJersey]

I LOVE their ball lock QDs!
I switched from all camlock to all QD.

 

[hezagenius]

I'd be concerned that the 20G would not be able to do 5G low gravity beers like the 3.5% ordinary bitter I brewed a month ago. I would think there would be too much volume below the basket. I could be wrong, but 20G seems huge for 5G batches.

That's my big concern. I think the 20 gallon setup might just be too big for 5 gallon batches.