Spike Fermenter users... Lil help?

[ejf063]

Hi all... I am in the market to upgrade my equipment and I think I have settled on Spike. I am looking at the Flex+ vs. the CF10.
In an effort to save money, I think that my purchase will be the flex+. I have a refrigerator which (I according to how I measured....), will fit the flex+. This will allow me to lager and cold crash without having to get a glycol chiller. I love the idea of fermentation under pressure as well doing pressure transfers. And you can minimize oxygen uptake by dry hopping towards the end of fermentation. Hell, I have even seen people create a dry hop dump port with a sight-glass and butterfly valve attached to the top of the unit which seemingly eliminates oxygen uptake altogether.
The only real differences I see in the flex+ vs. the CF 10 is the footprint (smaller for flex+ which allows me to put in the fridge) and no bottom dump port. With the rotating racking cane in the flex+ cant you just rotate the arm before racking to get the clearer beer? I usually harvest yeast by overbuilding a starter anyway so dumping the yeast to reuse isn't an issue. Dry hop particles will be an issue with either unit, so how do you minimize hop burn, which seems to be a constant issue with my hoppy beers. Again, I think the solution would be to turn the racking arm down then rotate it prior to kegging. Though the flex+ has about .22 gallons of cone space, is this big enough to avoid sucking in old yeast/trub/hop particles? How many gallons can the flex+ hold without having to worry about a blow off?
I am concerned about the "Do Not Lift When Full" on both units, though I have also seen many post that this seems more like a legal disclaimer.
Pros and cons would be great. I know people love Spike, and would love to hear from people who have both units.
Currently Spike is out of both options so I have time to poll the forum users and really.... I suppose I am open for suggestions from other manufacturers which can accommodate my needs.

 

[eric19312]

are you comparing flex+ to CF5? The CF10 is for 10 gallon batches...

 

[kxavier_23]

FWIW - I have a CF10 and if you do drain off yeast or trub (I have a sight glass), the racking arm is not very long. So what happens is I end up leaving beer behind because the raking arm won't reach the bottom of the fermenter. I know it is clear all the way to the bottom because I can see clear beer at the top of the sightglass.

To get around this, I added a 1/2" piece of tubing to 'extend' the racking arm to the bottom of the fermenter.

If you aren't draining off the yeast or trub, this really isn't an issue.

 

[ejf063]

are you comparing flex+ to CF5? The CF10 is for 10 gallon batches...

Honestly, I am considering two flex+ vs. one CF10. I guess I forgot to mention that. The reason I like two vessels instead of one is I can use different yeasts and dry hops, etc.

 

[eric19312]

Honestly, I am considering two flex+ vs. one CF10. I guess I forgot to mention that. The reason I like two vessels instead of one is I can use different yeasts and dry hops, etc.

OK if you are inclined to go with multiple fermenters you might want to plan to eventually go with glycol. I have a CF15 in a freezer and really like that style of fermenting but can see the glycol would become more convenient when you are running multiple fermentors and want to run them all at different temperatures. That said one Flex+ in an old fridge would get you started on the path and you could add kit piece by piece as you go.

So yes the main difference between the Flex+ and CF5 is CF5 ability to dump out of the cone vs the Flex+ being shorter (21" vs 29" for CF5 and 35" for CF10). I use the dump valve multiple times during a standard dry hopped ale fermentation.

• If I transfer beer to fermentor at a few degrees above piticing temperature to let my freezer do the rest of the chilling work I will dump a bit of trub before pitching yeast.
• Then once fermentation is pretty much done I soft crash to 50F and drop the yeast. I do harvest and sometimes re-use this yeast but would dump it whether or not I am going to re-use.
• Then I add my dry hops through the dump port using @Jaybird yeast brink.*
• Finally I cold crash and dump the dry hops before kegging

Not saying all or any of these steps are necessary to make good beer but just wanted to point out that having that ability to dump has more uses than simply harvesting yeast for future batches.

Now your question on racking by turning the racking arm. Yes but. This is not as easy as it sounds. You need to be able to see what you are doing and that stainless steel is really hard to see through. Really only way to see is to flow (carbonated) beer from the racking port through either a sight glass or clear tubing, slowly, without foaming, so you can see if you are still in the clear. Using the poppets on your keg to give you same information makes for a long frustrating kegging session. I'm getting better at the dry hop dumping but am still pretty much defaulting to using an inline screen to keep larger particles out of the line in all dry hopped beers.

*I see you have been looking at the other threads and might consider one of the various oxygen free dry hop methods. Consider that these will all add height to your fermentor. I used the extension legs so I could get the yeast brink underneath my fermentor. Others attach dry hop devices on top integrated with the manifold. All of these get more difficult fermenting in a fridge or freezer. Of course if you go to glycol all this gets much easier.

I think the 5 gallon fermentors are probably ok to lift by the handles or just picking up from the bottom. Not sure about the 10 but no way I'd try to move the 15 when full.

 

[stealthfixr]

I increase my batch to 5.15 gallons to account for the CF-5 fermentation & racking losses--no big deal. Even though I dump the yeast after cold crashing, I still find that 2" elbow fitting to be full of debris and junk I don't want in my beer after kegging. I find the Spike tilted/movable racking arm to do a pretty good job. Absolutely love my CF-5, by the way. Huge improvement to the final result, which I did not think would be the case before I bought it.

 

[Jag75]

I agree with Eric. If your gonna have multiple fv id definitely go glycol . I love my cf5 and plan to get another.

 

[ejf063]

I am in the midsts of looking how to make my own glycol chiller. I just bought an air conditioning unit off Facebook. However, if my math is correct, I can fit the two FLex+ in the refrigerator. So glycol today is not going to happen. The Spike line allows me to upgrade as time goes on. I was not planning on buying the cooling coils if I can fit it into the refrigerator. Sure, maybe someday I will.
But I am really struggling with if I should go with the CF10 or Flex+. Are there any pros or cons that I should be aware of?

 

[k-os]

I am in the midsts of looking how to make my own glycol chiller. I just bought an air conditioning unit off Facebook. However, if my math is correct, I can fit the two FLex+ in the refrigerator. So glycol today is not going to happen. The Spike line allows me to upgrade as time goes on. I was not planning on buying the cooling coils if I can fit it into the refrigerator. Sure, maybe someday I will.
But I am really struggling with if I should go with the CF10 or Flex+. Are there any pros or cons that I should be aware of?

I think the real question is whether you want two fermenters that you can then use for two different batches, split batches, yeast/dry hop variations, etc. One CF10 will obviously only let you fermenter one batch of beer at a time. With the pair of Flex+ you can ferment the same batch, but split, or like you said, introduce a variable in once batch to see how it affects the beer.

I use two Flex+ fermenters as my primary fermenters and like you, overbuild starters to save yeast, rather than dumping. I find racking out of the Flex+ works well with the racking arm. I don't have any method to cold crash in mine, so I do get a bit of hop burn on highly dry-hopped beers for the first week or so after kegging. I think with your ability to cold crash you would enjoy them.

 

[ejf063]

@k-os Do you find there is a lot of waste beer in the cone of the Flex, or is it mostly trub? How many gallons of wort can you safely add to the flex+?
Thanks

 

[k-os]

@k-os Do you find there is a lot of waste beer in the cone of the Flex, or is it mostly trub? How many gallons of wort can you safely add to the flex+?
Thanks

I typically fill to around 6 gallons and haven't had an issue with it overflowing while fermenting. With 6 gallons of wort I'll have maybe 0.5 gallon left after racking. Most of it is trub in the cone.

 

[couchsending]

Get the CF10. The ability to dump yeast and trub will be huge for the quality of your beer.

Just cause you can ferment under pressure doesn’t mean you should. And if you do you should really have a legitimate spunding valve not the PRV Spike sells. Some yeasts can handle pressure better than others.

You don’t want all that yeast and trub sitting around in your beer for the entire time it’s in the fermenter. If you have the ability to remove it then do so. Everything that yeast creates is also what kills it. Some yeasts lose viability quickly and some don’t at all. Unless you’re looking under a microscope I’d assume your yeast is starting to die rather quickly. Everyone always says they can’t taste or smell autolysis so keeping beer on a yeast cake is fine. However autolysis can cause a lot of other issues long before it tastes or smells “meaty”.

Especially if you’re making hoppy beers, removing as much of the yeast as possible before dry hopping is a good idea.

If you’re brewing a lot the ability to harvest, save and reuse yeast will save you money in the long run.