Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[TheMadKing]

I think of you are trying to chill with just a freezer like you said above, wpuldnt pure glycol be faster/ bettter? I coukd be way wrong here
For my penguin i went 50/50 but i hear 30 glycol/79 distilled water is fine

Oh I have a few inkbirds laying around. I would keep it chilled down to 25 or so, not just running the freezer at full throttle

 

[Tom R]

I'd actually though about some way of wrapping additional coils around the outside of the fermenter through which I'd run chilling solution, to give it a boost. I couldn't figure out an elegant way to do that since the fermenter has a neoprene jacket on it.

I agree that external cooling coils with an insulating jacket would enable much more effective chilling.

How about copper tubing wrapped around, held firmly in place with bands of rubber cut from punctured bicycle inner tubes (free from repair shops)? Wrap with some reflectix or similar insulation, then cover all with a custom thin neoprene wrap. Have the seams on the cover overlap, and use Velcro for an adjustable fit. The velcro and the stretchy rubber could make a less-then-perfect fit less noticeable...

 

[TheMadKing]

So I don't think the heat source matters, whether it's the ambient temp, or a heater, as long as your dissipation capacity is higher than your heat addition rate you should be able to cool until you hit one of 2 limitations: your chiller isn't able to dissipate heat as rapidly as its being dumped in, or you can't deliver the heat to your chiller faster than its being dumped in.

I think you can find the weakness in your system if you plot the temperature of your glycol reservoir inlet and outlet and the temperature of your beer every 10 min over a couple hours.

If your glycol outlet is steadily rising and doesn't plateau, then your chiller can't keep up with the amount of heat being dumped in

If your glycol outlet is steady and close to the set point and your glycol inlet also plateaus at some level higher than the glycol outlet temp and it just holds there, then your flow rate isn't high enough

If your glycol outlet and your beer are the same temperate, accounting for hose loss, your glycol isn't cold enough

If you've already done all this and I'm chasing my tail, I apologize and don't mean to insult your intelligence at all. I just can't understand how a 1/2 HP glycol chiller can't drop a beer to any temperature you want

 

[mongoose33]

So it's a heat balance equation, so it's a balance between the heat transfer between the beer and the glycol through the coils, the flow rate of the glycol, and the heat dissipation capability of the chiller

IMO, that's exactly what it is. The problem with the fermenter is it has about....11 things sticking out of it, all of which act as heat sinks....the legs, dump port, racking port, sampling port, handles, blowoff port in lid, top of the lid where the coil sits, the band that tightens the lid on.....

Can't you just boost the flow rate? Or are you already at the maximum flow rate that the heat transfer to the glycol through the coils can support?

Well, it's not clear there's a pump out there that would increase the flow rate. Maybe there is. I think, also, that we're not getting the kind of convection inside you might expect. That coil chills down the beer next to it, and therefore there's....well, it's not stratification but incomplete mixing.

[I have a Jaded Hydra immersion chiller. If you just put it in a kettle of boiling wort and turn on the water, you chill the wort much slower than if you use a spoon to stir the wort past the coils of the chiller. The wort next to the coils chills, and then the temp differential between the coils and wort shrinks. Don't stir, it's slow. Stir, and it's amazing. I think the same thing goes on inside the fermenter with the chilling coils.]

And what about wetting the neoprene with a swamp cooler fan to add some evaporative cooling to it?

Never tried it. It couldn't hurt. It would have a similar effect to wrapping coils around the outside, though less so.

My biggest reason for wanting to get down to 30 or so was that beer absorbs CO2 more readily the colder it is. Since I finish fermentation under pressure, I want as much of that pure CO2 in my beer as possible. I'm doing LODO things so that was why I went that way.

 

[TheMadKing]

IMO, that's exactly what it is. The problem with the fermenter is it has about....11 things sticking out of it, all of which act as heat sinks....the legs, dump port, racking port, sampling port, handles, blowoff port in lid, top of the lid where the coil sits, the band that tightens the lid on.....



Well, it's not clear there's a pump out there that would increase the flow rate. Maybe there is. I think, also, that we're not getting the kind of convection inside you might expect. That coil chills down the beer next to it, and therefore there's....well, it's not stratification but incomplete mixing.

[I have a Jaded Hydra immersion chiller. If you just put it in a kettle of boiling wort and turn on the water, you chill the wort much slower than if you use a spoon to stir the wort past the coils of the chiller. The wort next to the coils chills, and then the temp differential between the coils and wort shrinks. Don't stir, it's slow. Stir, and it's amazing. I think the same thing goes on inside the fermenter with the chilling coils.]



Never tried it. It couldn't hurt. It would have a similar effect to wrapping coils around the outside, though less so.

My biggest reason for wanting to get down to 30 or so was that beer absorbs CO2 more readily the colder it is. Since I finish fermentation under pressure, I want as much of that pure CO2 in my beer as possible. I'm doing LODO things so that was why I went that way.

I was thinking about the convective issues as well. Working in an industrial setting, it's always better to have counterflow.

So I just finished reading a (heated) thread on penguin chillers Ss Brewtech 1/5 hp glycol chiller

The Penguin rep said that icing on your coils is causing the bulk of issues. Have you tried warming your reservoir up to 35 and then slowly cooling it back down?

I suspect Penguin's small reservoir is causing this issue, because a smaller reservoir in a more efficient chiller results in faster rate of temperature drops around the coils which causes ice since convection within the beer can't keep up.

A larger reservoir would result in a more gentle cooling cycle which would probably help.

Sorry mongoose I didn't mean to rehash everything you've been through. I read this entire thread at one point so I got the full blow by blow.

 

[TheMadKing]

I agree that external cooling coils with an insulating jacket would enable much more effective chilling.

How about copper tubing wrapped around, held firmly in place with bands of rubber cut from punctured bicycle inner tubes (free from repair shops)? Wrap with some reflectix or similar insulation, then cover all with a custom thin neoprene wrap. Have the seams on the cover overlap, and use Velcro for an adjustable fit. The velcro and the stretchy rubber could make a less-then-perfect fit less noticeable...

http://www.gotta-brew.com/products/conical-cooling-jacket.html
Have you guys seen this?

 

[Yesfan]

Looks good.....Is there an added performance if someone already had the temp kit from Spike? Wonder if there is a benefit with cooling inside AND outside of a conical and if it would be worth the extra cost.

Then there's using something like that along with an immersion chiller when running ice water to bring the wort temp down even further.

 

[Yesfan]

I have the mason jar brink and don’t care for it. I launched a jar off under about 6 psi.

Settles it for me then. I went ahead and ordered a sight glass off Amazon along with a couple of clamps and gaskets. I guess I'll get the brink from NorCal later on.

 

[eric19312]

Are you talking about their manway gaskets? Have you tried one for the CF lid?

I think he was only talking about the Tri-clamp gaskets. I am really curious to know if the lid gasket is actually a manway gasket and could be swapped out for something made from something other than silicone. Fit is really critical on that gasket. Maybe Spike will start offering if they are now offering other gaskets in EPDM.

 

[mongoose33]

I was thinking about the convective issues as well. Working in an industrial setting, it's always better to have counterflow.

So I just finished reading a (heated) thread on penguin chillers Ss Brewtech 1/5 hp glycol chiller

The Penguin rep said that icing on your coils is causing the bulk of issues. Have you tried warming your reservoir up to 35 and then slowly cooling it back down?

I suspect Penguin's small reservoir is causing this issue, because a smaller reservoir in a more efficient chiller results in faster rate of temperature drops around the coils which causes ice since convection within the beer can't keep up.

A larger reservoir would result in a more gentle cooling cycle which would probably help.

Sorry mongoose I didn't mean to rehash everything you've been through. I read this entire thread at one point so I got the full blow by blow.

Here's the thing: the freezing point of beer drops about .8 degrees fahrenheit for every 1 percent ABV. So, a 5% beer will have a freezing point of 28 degrees (.8 x 5 = 4 degrees).

I have my penguin set at 28 degrees for that reason; I don't want beersicle forming on the cooling coils and since I never brew a beer whose ABV is less than 5%, a 28-degree temp of the glycol solution works.

As far as the recovery time of the Penguin, you have to see this thing to believe it. Fast doesn't beging to describe it. The cooling coils in the chiller (not the fermenter) are massive in proportion to the solution it's chilling. Mine's set on, I think, a 3-degree differential meaning when the solution rises to 31, the chiller kicks on and drives that temp right back down. I might time it today, seeing how long it takes to send room temperature (or garage-temperature ) solution down to 28 degrees. I'll report back if I remember to do this.

I'm planning on brewing today; I can play with the temp of the Penguin when it comes time to crash. Maybe I'll put it at 32 degrees and see if that makes any difference. If there's no icing, it shouldn't be as effective, but who knows? Maybe there's some icing I'm not aware of.

Having said that, many has been the time when I've taken a crashed fermenter, racked the beer from it into a keg, and then shortly thereafter opened it up for cleaning. Never, not ever, have I seen any beersicle on the chilling coils. So I'm doubtful that's the culprit here.

 

[specialkayme]

Settles it for me then. I went ahead and ordered a sight glass off Amazon along with a couple of clamps and gaskets. I guess I'll get the brink from NorCal later on.

Ditto. Went ahead and ordered the Amazon sight glass and NorCal 2"x2" brink (plus a thermowell, as it was cheaper than Spike's).

 

[TheMadKing]

Here's the thing: the freezing point of beer drops about .8 degrees fahrenheit for every 1 percent ABV. So, a 5% beer will have a freezing point of 28 degrees (.8 x 5 = 4 degrees).

I have my penguin set at 28 degrees for that reason; I don't want beersicle forming on the cooling coils and since I never brew a beer whose ABV is less than 5%, a 28-degree temp of the glycol solution works.

As far as the recovery time of the Penguin, you have to see this thing to believe it. Fast doesn't beging to describe it. The cooling coils in the chiller (not the fermenter) are massive in proportion to the solution it's chilling. Mine's set on, I think, a 3-degree differential meaning when the solution rises to 31, the chiller kicks on and drives that temp right back down. I might time it today, seeing how long it takes to send room temperature (or garage-temperature ) solution down to 28 degrees. I'll report back if I remember to do this.

I'm planning on brewing today; I can play with the temp of the Penguin when it comes time to crash. Maybe I'll put it at 32 degrees and see if that makes any difference. If there's no icing, it shouldn't be as effective, but who knows? Maybe there's some icing I'm not aware of.

Having said that, many has been the time when I've taken a crashed fermenter, racked the beer from it into a keg, and then shortly thereafter opened it up for cleaning. Never, not ever, have I seen any beersicle on the chilling coils. So I'm doubtful that's the culprit here.

I have doubts as well, but first rule of troubleshooting is don't assume you know anything, so I thought I would ask.

I'm bringing this up because I am making the decision of how I want to cool my CF5, and I'm still pretty split between glycol and a freezer. The glycol is winning by a slight margin because I already have the whole TC-100 bundle from Spike and paid pennies on the dollar for it, so from a cost perspective that negates one of the downsides of glycol. At the end of the day I'm more concerned with performance and reliability than price as the final deciding factor. I will probably also add another conical at some point in the future which also points toward glycol.

Just had another thought, where is the Penguin measuring the glycol reservoir temp? It could be overcooling the resevoir when the compressor kicks on, creating a thin layer of ice on the outside of the fermenter coil, which then insulates the coil the more you cool, and then melts a few minutes later.. So when you try to chill the beer below a certain point, that ice forms and then melts very quickly. That would explain why you had never noticed it before.

 

[NeoBrew]

I have doubts as well, but first rule of troubleshooting is don't assume you know anything, so I thought I would ask.

I'm bringing this up because I am making the decision of how I want to cool my CF5, and I'm still pretty split between glycol and a freezer. The glycol is winning by a slight margin because I already have the whole TC-100 bundle from Spike and paid pennies on the dollar for it, so from a cost perspective that negates one of the downsides of glycol. At the end of the day I'm more concerned with performance and reliability than price as the final deciding factor. I will probably also add another conical at some point in the future which also points toward glycol.

Just had another thought, where is the Penguin measuring the glycol reservoir temp? It could be overcooling the resevoir when the compressor kicks on, creating a thin layer of ice on the outside of the fermenter coil, which then insulates the coil the more you cool, and then melts a few minutes later.. So when you try to chill the beer below a certain point, that ice forms and then melts very quickly. That would explain why you had never noticed it before.

I started my cooling adventure trying to use glycol like setups. It started when I was still using carboys. I built a peltier cooler that circulated water that ran around the outside of the carboy, then switched to just putting the carboy in a chest freezer, then bought a conical and tried using the chest freezer as a glycol reservoir. Finally got sick of all the tinkering and bought a glass front refrigerator to ferment in.

The problem with glycol systems is that the conical is still in ambient temps. No matter what the outside of that conical, and the beer just inside that edge want to be at ambient temps. You are fighting that with whatever power the glycol system has. I skipped the step of buying a dedicated glycol system, so I can't speak too much about their performance. When I was ready to invest this last time it seemed most people have problems cold crashing, so I went with a refrigerator on a custom temp controller.

The advantages of this setup are that the conical is in a temp controlled chamber, there is less dust and critters that can get at the conical, I have no problem cooling down to 32 degrees. I also don't need to spend any time on fidgeting with glycol levels, dealing with hoses, or otherwise tweaking the thing to work correctly. (Which I did with all my DIY versions.)

The disadvantages are that it is pretty large and I can never run two conicals off of it.

 

[TheMadKing]

I started my cooling adventure trying to use glycol like setups. It started when I was still using carboys. I built a peltier cooler that circulated water that ran around the outside of the carboy, then switched to just putting the carboy in a chest freezer, then bought a conical and tried using the chest freezer as a glycol reservoir. Finally got sick of all the tinkering and bought a glass front refrigerator to ferment in.

The problem with glycol systems is that the conical is still in ambient temps. No matter what the outside of that conical, and the beer just inside that edge want to be at ambient temps. You are fighting that with whatever power the glycol system has. I skipped the step of buying a dedicated glycol system, so I can't speak too much about their performance. When I was ready to invest this last time it seemed most people have problems cold crashing, so I went with a refrigerator on a custom temp controller.

The advantages of this setup are that the conical is in a temp controlled chamber, there is less dust and critters that can get at the conical, I have no problem cooling down to 32 degrees. I also don't need to spend any time on fidgeting with glycol levels, dealing with hoses, or otherwise tweaking the thing to work correctly. (Which I did with all my DIY versions.)

The disadvantages are that it is pretty large and I can never run two conicals off of it.

Thanks! A glass front refrigerator was definitely on my mind for the bling factor, but I thought it would have trouble cold crashing compared to an insulated freezer door.

Based on what Mongoose has experienced, I've actually just asked my wife (who is very crafty with sewing projects and has made all our hammock camping gear and bug nets) to see how hard it would be to make a heavily insulated jacket that slides down over the top of my CF5, like this

FastFerment Conical Fermenter Fermentation Jacket fits up to 8 Gallons. Fermentation Cool Brewing Cooler Bag for Fermentation Temperature Control - Fermentation Accessories https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IQ0MF30/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_72uWEbMJ5KPRZ

I don't think that one is quite big enough to fit over all the TC protrusions.

That should provide a hefty efficiency boost, especially if it mates to an insulated floor plate (think foamboard sandwiched between two pieces of plywood.

I also want it to have a very high R value so she's going to use oven insulation, which we happen to have a bunch of

 

[Nagorg]

Sooo.... Now I'm thinking I might want to pony up and buy the CF15 instead. I'd then sell my Chronical to recoup costs. I'm thinking that I might use the funds from selling the Chronical to then get a CF5 possibly.

But along this line I have two questions.

1) The SB website mentions that the CF15 can do 5G batches. I know there's nothing keeping you from simply putting a smaller amount of wort in it but the sample valve and thermowell would need to be low enough in the cone for this. I'm assuming the racking arm would be fine.
If I can truly do 5G batches in the CF15 then this could negate the need for the CF5 completely.
Can anyone speak to that?

2) We already discussed how I wouldn't need the bracing shelf if I didn't plan on using casters to move it when full. But the SB site recommends the brace when using the extension legs. I would be getting the shorty legs just for use with the sight glass. The conical would still never move once full.
Do I really need the bracing shelf in this situation? If the answer is yes or that its a good idea, then what about the extended bracing shelf? Are these things really so unstable?? My Chronical has 4 legs and the SB conicals have 3. Not sure how big of a difference that really makes for stability.

 

[CodeSection]

While I have the CF10 and only brew 10 gal batches; @mongoose33 has a CF10 and brews 5 gal batches; these links may help since they give detail...... Heights, widths, depths and volumes of our conical lines and https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.freshdesk.com/data/helpdesk/attachments/production/35019548652/original/Conical Cutaway Drawings 7-10-18.PDF?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAS6FNSMY2WD6T3JNC/20200517/us-east-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20200517T154202Z&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Signature=cc7d2b4a65917a0de35179ae55a7bd86f89ec055d1a8b67a53b80d48d85dcf41&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=Host&response-content-type=application/pdf and Coil dimensions.

If you are using shorter legs and are not planning on moving/rolling the CF10 or CF15, there is no need for a bracing shelf, though I bought one for my CF10 because I wasn't sure. The extended bracing shelf is really for when one is using the caster kit and plans on rolling the conical since it is top heavy. The extended brace widens the the footprint of the casters and thus provides more stability. You can always later buy either bracing shelf depending upon your situation if you find you want or need it.

If you are buying any extension legs, it might be beneficial to buy a bracing shelf. If you do buy a bracing shelf, perhaps buying the extended shelf may be wise in case your situation ever changes and someday you may have to move a full conical.

 

[Nagorg]

@CodeSection , thanks for that link. If I read it correctly then it looks like I could do 5G batches as long as I planned to put 6+ gallons of wort in it. I always plan for larger volumes than my desired packaging size to allow for volume loss from dumping yeast so that shouldnt be a problem. But it is cutting it a little close IMO but certainly not impossible.

The CF15 thermowell sits 1" higher in the tank than the CF10 it seems while everything else looks to be the same except for the capacity of course.

 

[CodeSection]

@CodeSection , thanks for that link. If I read it correctly then it looks like I could do 5G batches as long as I planned to put 6+ gallons of wort in it. I always plan for larger volumes than my desired packaging size to allow for volume loss from dumping yeast so that shouldnt be a problem. But it is cutting it a little close IMO but certainly not impossible.

The CF15 thermowell sits 1" higher in the tank than the CF10 it seems while everything else looks to be the same except for the capacity of course.
View attachment 680841

Correct, the thermowell in the CF15 shows at a height of 5.7 gallon mark per Spike's drawing. Depending upon your recipe and processes, I'm guessing one would be starting with at least six gallons of wort (probably more like 6.25 gallons) in the fermenter.

 

[CodeSection]

@Nagorg, if you are considering the CF15, just how large of kettles do you have and can you end up brewing and transferring 15.5-16.5 gallons of wort into the CF15? If not, then why buy the CF15?

 

[specialkayme]

If I read it correctly then it looks like I could do 5G batches as long as I planned to put 6+ gallons of wort in it.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.freshd...rs=Host&response-content-type=application/pdf
You'd need 5.7 gal in order for the thermowell port on the CF15 to be submerged. But there's nothing saying you can't put the thermowell on the sample port, which would sit at the 2.9 gal mark. Then put the sample port on the outside of the butterfly valve on the raking port. That way you can switch out the sample valve for the carb stone, or racking, when ready.

The bigger issue is if you plan on using the chiller coil. Spike doesn't recommend going below half batch marks I believe (7.75 gal on the CF15).

 

[Nate R]

http://www.gotta-brew.com/products/conical-cooling-jacket.html
Have you guys seen this?

Hey @TheMadKing... cool post! Thanks for this! I have a fermenter that is not temp controlled... This would be a relatively inexpensive way for me cool it. Appreciate it!

 

[Nagorg]

@Nagorg, if you are considering the CF15, just how large of kettles do you have and can you end up brewing and transferring 15.5-16.5 gallons of wort into the CF15? If not, then why buy the CF15?

I have 30G, 20G and 11G kettles. I transfer into my half barrel Chronical via my Chugger pump. I mostly do 10G batches but will do 15G on occasion.

But I do like to experiment with recipe's and I'd rather do that with smaller batches so I was initially looking at the CF5 for just that reason. I've been mostly lucky but I wence when brewing a new recipie for the first time and I'm making 10 gallons of it. But when I put everything for the CF5 in the shopping cart and saw the actual cost, it made me stop and reconsider a few things.

Replacing my half barrel chronical with the CF15 would give me more batch size flexibility and give me a full TC fermenter. The SSBrewTech Chronical is sort of a hybrid which as always bugged me. It also has holes for a chiller coil that I bought plugs for since I never use it. Bottom line, I like the design of the SB conicals better for those things.

 

[CodeSection]

I have 30G, 20G and 11G kettles. I transfer into my half barrel Chronical via my Chugger pump. I mostly do 10G batches but will do 15G on occasion.

But I do like to experiment with recipe's and I'd rather do that with smaller batches so I was initially looking at the CF5 for just that reason. I've been mostly lucky but I wence when brewing a new recipie for the first time and I'm making 10 gallons of it. But when I put everything for the CF5 in the shopping cart and saw the actual cost, it made me stop any reconsider a few things.

Replacing my half barrel chronical with the CF15 would give me more batch size flexibility and give me a full TC fermenter. The SSBrewTech Chronical is sort of a hybrid which as always bugged me. It also has holes for a chiller coil that I bought plugs for since I never use it. Bottom line, I like the design of the SB conicals better for those things.

View attachment 680845

Very nice. So, you can brew larger batches which then the CF15 makes since. After all, it is only $125 more than the CF10 initial cost. While it appears you will not be buying the TC-100 bundle, the increase in cost for that ranges only $5-$15 depending upon if the heater option is selected.

 

[Nagorg]

Very nice. So, you can brew larger batches which then the CF15 makes since.

Yes... I've brewed 20G batches but only when my brother wants to take 5G of it!

I'll make sure that I review the TC-100 bundle for any value add before pulling the trigger. I just have no intention of going Glycol even though the thought of that is cool. My "beer barn" is not climate controlled and despite what several have told me about Glycol and chiller coils, I have a hard time believing it would perform well during the peak Texas summer temps in there. It approaches 120 in there easily at times.

 

[specialkayme]

My "beer barn" is not climate controlled and despite what several have told me about Glycol and chiller coils, I have a hard time believing it would perform well during the peak Texas summer temps in there. It approaches 120 in there easily at times.

Ditto. I feel bad enough for my chest freezer in there. I couldn't imagine a glycol chiller trying to handle those kind of temps.

 

[CodeSection]

Yes... I've brewed 20G batches but only when my brother wants to take 5G of it!

I'll make sure that I review the TC-100 bundle for any value add before pulling the trigger. I just have no intention of going Glycol even though the thought of that is cool. My "beer barn" is not climate controlled and despite what several have told me about Glycol and chiller coils, I have a hard time believing it would perform well during the peak Texas summer temps in there. It approaches 120 in there easily at times.

Ouch! In that heat I would simply melt! Plus, you have that higher humidity!

I am fortunate in that my brew room is in my game room which maintains roughly 70F-76F depending upon the time of the year and how it is being used. I agree with you at your ambient temp, any glycol chiller would be running all the time and would struggle in crashing to a low temp.

It sounds like you are in no rush so you can plan out the purchases.....

 

[V-Twin]

There's a lot of things that I dont understand with these and many other products. It's almost like an engineered lack of features. In some cases this can be fixed with add-on accessories but in others your just kinda stuck.

For example, I'd almost buy a Flex+. Its soooo close to what I'm looking for. But, I've only got 2 ports; one for racking and the other is "flexible" so I'm forced to choose between using it with a thermowell or sample valve. But I want BOTH of those!
Thats what pushes me to the CF5 which is an actual conical with all the bells and whistles. BUT... It's lacking basic items (racking arm, thermowell) so you are pushed to a cart full of accessories that elevate its overall price.

I guess if I really dont care about dumping yeast (I do care) and want the cheapest option then the Flex+ with a sample valve would be the way to go. I could always just tape my temp probe to the side of it just like I did with my PET carboys for years. It comes down to a ~$344.00 decision point!

I have been debating the same things you point out. Here is a solution I have come across so you don't waste the 1.5" port above the racking arm for a thermowell. It combines blow-off and thermowell via a 1.5" tri clover. 1.5" Combo Thermowell & Blow-off tube

 

[TheMadKing]

I have been debating the same things you point out. Here is a solution I have come across so you don't waste the 1.5" port above the racking arm for a thermowell. It combines blow-off and thermowell via a 1.5" tri clover. 1.5" Combo Thermowell & Blow-off tube

That's pretty cool, I just wish it had a triclover fitting in the end of the blowoff tube so I could attach my spunding valve

 

[TheMadKing]

I have a hard time believing it would perform well during the peak Texas summer temps in there. It approaches 120 in there easily at times.

That's part if what holding me back on glycol since it would be in my ununsulated garage in Georgia.. It gets to 120 in there too

 

[Yesfan]

I have been debating the same things you point out. Here is a solution I have come across so you don't waste the 1.5" port above the racking arm for a thermowell. It combines blow-off and thermowell via a 1.5" tri clover. 1.5" Combo Thermowell & Blow-off tube

^^^ That might be a good idea for some of us Flex owners!

 

[V-Twin]

Here ya go! Add one of these at the end of the 1/2" SS pipe and connect the spunding valve at the end. 1/2" compression to 1.5" Tri clover I've been trying to figure out how to work around this.

 

[Yesfan]

Here ya go! Add one of these at the end of the 1/2" SS pipe and connect the spunding valve at the end. 1/2" compression to 1.5" Tri clover I've been trying to figure out how to work around this.

In the description.....

"Please note that while the fitting include compression ferrules for a permanent connection to a 1/2" tube, it is NOT designed to be a high-pressure fitting."

 

[mongoose33]

Thanks! A glass front refrigerator was definitely on my mind for the bling factor, but I thought it would have trouble cold crashing compared to an insulated freezer door.

Based on what Mongoose has experienced, I've actually just asked my wife (who is very crafty with sewing projects and has made all our hammock camping gear and bug nets) to see how hard it would be to make a heavily insulated jacket that slides down over the top of my CF5, like this

FastFerment Conical Fermenter Fermentation Jacket fits up to 8 Gallons. Fermentation Cool Brewing Cooler Bag for Fermentation Temperature Control - Fermentation Accessories https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IQ0MF30/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_72uWEbMJ5KPRZ

I don't think that one is quite big enough to fit over all the TC protrusions.

That should provide a hefty efficiency boost, especially if it mates to an insulated floor plate (think foamboard sandwiched between two pieces of plywood.

I also want it to have a very high R value so she's going to use oven insulation, which we happen to have a bunch of

It's certainly not going to hurt to try, and while my moving blanket approach (which is essentially the heavy insulated jacket you speak of above) is quite similar and helped somewhat, it's not the overall answer.

Here's what mine looked like; the quilt thing on top (it's a print, not a real quilt) was to help cover the top since the blanket was wrapped around the sides and held in place with hand clamps.

BTW, that was back when I was chilling with the reservoir in the freezer compartment; you can see the hoses coming out of the top of the freezer.

 

[TheMadKing]

It's certainly not going to hurt to try, and while my moving blanket approach (which is essentially the heavy insulated jacket you speak of above) is quite similar and helped somewhat, it's not the overall answer.

Here's what mine looked like; the quilt thing on top (it's a print, not a real quilt) was to help cover the top since the blanket was wrapped around the sides and held in place with hand clamps.

BTW, that was back when I was chilling with the reservoir in the freezer compartment; you can see the hoses coming out of the top of the freezer.

View attachment 680856

A couple problems I have with the moving blanket are: relatively low R value when compared to serious insulation, moisture absorbent, and no seal at the bottom

I don't see why making a small flexible fermentation chamber could be any less effective than a refrigerator if you can get the bottom to seal, and if it is lined with a non absorbent interior.

I think a more efficient enclosure coupled with more powerful heat dissipation should solve the issue.

Many people on here have reported getting their beer temperatures down into the low 30's easily, so its clearly not an unsolvable problem.

 

[V-Twin]

In the description.....

"Please note that while the fitting include compression ferrules for a permanent connection to a 1/2" tube, it is NOT designed to be a high-pressure fitting."

Good catch. Wonder if it could at least handle the 15 PSI supported by the Flex+?

 

[mongoose33]

A couple problems I have with the moving blanket are: relatively low R value when compared to serious insulation, moisture absorbent, and no seal at the bottom

I don't see why making a small flexible fermentation chamber could be any less effective than a refrigerator if you can get the bottom to seal, and if it is lined with a non absorbent interior.

I think a more efficient enclosure coupled with more powerful heat dissipation should solve the issue.

Many people on here have reported getting their beer temperatures down into the low 30's easily, so its clearly not an unsolvable problem.

That's not hard to do in a dedicated refrigerator or freezer, but I've yet to see someone report that with the Spike Fermenters.

And yes, the moving blanket isn't particularly effective in terms of R-Value; it just creates a space inside that is isolated from ambient. I'd drape it down to the floor so there was no convection as cold air fell to the floor and was replaced by warmer ambient.

On my list of things to try is to get some 2" foamboard, cut it to 2x4' pieces and then build a box with that. I can hold it together with bungee cords or straps. I believe that if I can do that, I'll eventually get it down to the low 30s.

I'm retiring literally at the end of this week; so many projects to try and now I'll have all the time needed to do them.

 

[TheMadKing]

That's not hard to do in a dedicated refrigerator or freezer, but I've yet to see someone report that with the Spike Fermenters.

And yes, the moving blanket isn't particularly effective in terms of R-Value; it just creates a space inside that is isolated from ambient. I'd drape it down to the floor so there was no convection as cold air fell to the floor and was replaced by warmer ambient.

On my list of things to try is to get some 2" foamboard, cut it to 2x4' pieces and then build a box with that. I can hold it together with bungee cords or straps. I believe that if I can do that, I'll eventually get it down to the low 30s.

I'm retiring literally at the end of this week; so many projects to try and now I'll have all the time needed to do them.

Well congratulations! I'm many years from that, so I hope you enjoy it

So you're saying to your knowledge, nobody with a Spike CF is able to get chilling down below ~35 with glycol? I just did a forum search and couldn't find anything specific.

 

[CodeSection]

Well congratulations! I'm many years from that, so I hope you enjoy it

So you're saying to your knowledge, nobody with a Spike CF is able to get chilling down below ~35 with glycol? I just did a forum search and couldn't find anything specific.

I easily crash to 28F in my 10 gallon batches with my CF10 and IceMaster 100 glycol chiller.....

 

[TheMadKing]

I easily crash to 28F in my 10 gallon batches with my CF10 and IceMaster 100 glycol chiller.....

Awesome! Are you doing anything special?

I was looking at their Max2 chiller that's supposed to be out soon and it looks like a great option for CF5's

 

[CodeSection]

Awesome! Are you doing anything special?

I was looking at their Max2 chiller that's supposed to be out soon and it looks like a great option for CF5's

Nothing special. The CF10 only has the neopreme jacket that came with it on it. From what I understand, the Max2 and Max4 both have the same internal guts and reservoir size as in the Icemaster 100. My mix is 25% glycol and 75% water.

The only thing I do not like about the Max2 and Max4 are the built in controllers that do NOT have WIFI capability.

Lastly, my ambient temp is no where near your posted 120F in Georgia. My game room is so much cooler....