Spike conical cold crash

[bcrawfo2]

I got a new 14g Spike conical with their coil. I built a glycol chiller out of a 5000 BTU AC and have about 6 gallons of ~33% glycol mix in a cooler reservoir that I keep at 25F.
I ran 3/8" ID silicone tubing between my cooler/coil and back. I insulated my cooling lines with pipe insulation and finally I custom cut reflectix to tightly fit the cone and side walls of the conical (hopefully Spike will offer something soon).
My pump is currently the weak link in the system. It's about 260 gph and has a max 6' head. Since i have the extension legs...that puts me about 4 foot of head between pump and the input of the coil. This slows my flow down to about 2 cups per minute.
So...the reason I'm posting...I max/min out cooling 12g of water at about 45 degrees with my 25F glycol mix. I can get it to go to about 38 if I push glycol down to about 15 degrees, but I think that's a pretty hard load on my AC.
I've ordered another pump...higher flow and better head specs.
What #s are other people getting? Glycol temp vs min crash temp.

Thanks for any input on my system or stats on yours.

 

[Drumminguy81]

I don't have a spike but im using an identical coil in my brewhemoth fermenters. In my garage with no insulation at ~85 ambient im able to crash 20 gallons down to about 40f not as low as I would like but I just give it a couple days. Im using 650 gpm sump pumps in my diy glycol chiller with 12 gallons water/4 gallons glycol in the reservoir set at 25* I use 1/2" tubing to supply the coil with about 3' head lift to the top of the fermenters. Im running 2 fermenters at a time off this setup though I have never tried to cold crash both at the same time. My fermenters sweat like crazy too. Im currently looking into insulating them to try and get the temp down a bit.

 

[bcrawfo2]

Thanks
Forgot to post my ambient. It's in my ~70 degree basement. I think my problem now is my flow rate
Pump from amazon due Sunday. Will report back

 

[pennengr]

I'll be cold crashing next weekend - will try to remember to report back.

 

[bcrawfo2]

An update. New pump and slightly improved flow rate...but not what i expected. I get about 1/2 gpm. Expect this due to the head height i created by adding the legs. I will look at lifting the glycol cooler a few feet to counteract this
In the attached graph you will see it level off around 40 degrees. On a hunch, i wrapped a blanket around the dump valve elbow and that is what got it moving again. Not a permanent solution, but a reminder of significant loss there
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1502675396.886681.jpg

 

[NeoBrew]

If you are in a closed loop the head height will not have as big an effect as you think. The full head will be exerted on the pump as you begin to flow, but once the coil is full and it starts to flow back down the return tube it will "pull" on the fluid and reduce your head pressure.

Your real obstacle is all the head created by the tubing and that cooling coil. You could try moving the reservoir up, but you will probably experience a minimal improvement in flow.

 

[bigdawg86]

I don't have experience with your application, but the link below is a 20 dollar pump I use for my wort chiller. It pushes H20 through a 50' 1/2 inch wort chiller, plus the 6 feet of hose, and about 3 feet of lift without a problem. For the price it's worth looking into.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017R709UE/ref=twister_B017R7081E?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[bcrawfo2]

An update...patience is key. In my environment, my conical filled with ~12g of water will "pause" at about 40F no matter the glycol temperature. Really odd to me. But after about an hour or so in the "pause" it starts going down again and will hit my target temp. My wrapping the 2" dump elbow/valve above was a red herring. I just had to wait. I'm working on some more tests with higher glycol mix temps to save some $.

 

[Mordhaus]

An update...patience is key. In my environment, my conical filled with ~12g of water will "pause" at about 40F no matter the glycol temperature. Really odd to me. But after about an hour or so in the "pause" it starts going down again and will hit my target temp. My wrapping the 2" dump elbow/valve above was a red herring. I just had to wait. I'm working on some more tests with higher glycol mix temps to save some $.

I'm heavily eyeballing the new CF10 from Spike. It will be my first conical. I'm curious if you did anything special when crashing. PRV, crash under positive co2 pressure?

 

[bcrawfo2]

I'm heavily eyeballing the new CF10 from Spike. It will be my first conical. I'm curious if you did anything special when crashing. PRV, crash under positive co2 pressure?

For now I'm just working with water and open to the atmosphere for now.
I built a fitting for the 1 1/2" fitting on the top that has a pressure gauge, a 15psi PRV, and a gas fitting. I expect I will use that under ~1psi to counteract the crash suckback.

 

[PenguinChillers]

An update...patience is key. In my environment, my conical filled with ~12g of water will "pause" at about 40F no matter the glycol temperature. Really odd to me. But after about an hour or so in the "pause" it starts going down again and will hit my target temp. My wrapping the 2" dump elbow/valve above was a red herring. I just had to wait. I'm working on some more tests with higher glycol mix temps to save some $.

Try starting with glycol at 32-35F or so, then step down slowly keeping the glycol a degree or two colder than the fermenter until you hit your desired temp in the fermenter. At 25F glycol temp you are likely icing up the coils in the fermenter which will then act as a bit of an insulator and slow the heat exchange process.

 

[Mordhaus]

For now I'm just working with water and open to the atmosphere for now.
I built a fitting for the 1 1/2" fitting on the top that has a pressure gauge, a 15psi PRV, and a gas fitting. I expect I will use that under ~1psi to counteract the crash suckback.

Keep me posted on what you find works best. I'm a few months out from the CF10. Building my diy ac unit glycol chiller now.

 

[bcrawfo2]

Keep me posted on what you find works best. I'm a few months out from the CF10. Building my diy ac unit glycol chiller now.

Glycol build was easy. Don't be afraid. Just bend the copper coils and get it where you need them to be. Buy rust inhibitor glycol.

 

[bcrawfo2]

Try starting with glycol at 32-35F or so, then step down slowly keeping the glycol a degree or two colder than the fermenter until you hit your desired temp in the fermenter. At 25F glycol temp you are likely icing up the coils in the fermenter which will then act as a bit of an insulator and slow the heat exchange process.

Thsnms. I will check whats happening in the "stall".
So you think the "beer" temp is low enough to allow it to freeze on the coil but eventually it will thaw and pick back up cooling? I don't get why this doesn't happen over and over as the temp drops

 

[bcrawfo2]

My run today. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1502927442.448533.jpg

 

[PenguinChillers]

Thsnms. I will check whats happening in the "stall".
So you think the "beer" temp is low enough to allow it to freeze on the coil but eventually it will thaw and pick back up cooling? I don't get why this doesn't happen over and over as the temp drops

Yes, if the glycol is too cold the beer will begin to freeze around the coils as the batch as a whole gets closer to the freezing point. It'll then act as a bit of an insulator. If you assume the ice forming around the coil is 32F, now the batch is in contact with 32F coils instead of 25F coils. This is way over simplification for purposes of the example, but gets the point across. This is why most recommend glycol temps you'll find are +/- 28F. Cold enough to provide a temperature differential for cooling purposes but not so cold that it will create freezing issues.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Beer will behave differently than water in regards to a cold crash but I run at 28-32 degrees to crash my beer. At 28 I can get the beer to 32 degrees in 20 hours but I rarely go that low or fast anymore unless I'm lagering. I find 40 degrees is a nice temp to drop hop and yeast for ale yeasts. I usually do that over 24-30 hours with a slow temp drop. This limits suck back on my set up.

You can attach a co2 line to limit the suck back as needed, it's worked nicely at a 1-2 lbs of co2 for me.

 

[pennengr]

Crashing now - about 6 hours in and down from 68 to 34.5 with a 33 F set point.

 

[homebrewdude76]

Where does one purchase glycol with rust inhibitor?
Or do I need to add rust inhibitor to glycol? I was looking at Glycol from Tractor Supply

 

[bcrawfo2]

Where does one purchase glycol with rust inhibitor?
Or do I need to add rust inhibitor to glycol? I was looking at Glycol from Tractor Supply

http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=propylene
They have it with or without
If you already have glycol, i can find a link for the additive

 

[homebrewdude76]

I saw it, and a full gallon of additive is expensive and probably too much. I see small bottles for $18. Would that be good enough?

 

[bcrawfo2]

I saw it, and a full gallon of additive is expensive and probably too much. I see small bottles for $18. Would that be good enough?

We (a friend and I) bought from here. https://www.chemworld.com/Food-Grade-Propylene-Glycol-Corrosion-Inhibitor-s/792273.htm
I think you need about 1 oz of inhibotor per gallon of glycol/water mix. So..that $18 bottle isn't enough probably

I have over half of the 64 oz bottle here, but not sure it's worth shipping.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I doubt you need rust inhibitor on these types of set ups. Save your money for hops

 

[homebrewdude76]

The DIY chiller needs the inhibitor. I think it is the frame of the cooling coil.