Speidel Braumeister (brewmaster)

[sebring96hbg]

I have the 20L version. Does anyone run a therminator with this unit?

If so...gravity or with a pump?
Do you have something in the kettle to help from picking up the trub to avoid gunk in the chiller?

I currently run an immersion chiller, but thinking of an upgrade.

I have a HopRocket and a Therminator relying on gravity which works. I lose about a liter; however, the HopRocket will need to be picked up (carefully as it is really hot) and the kettle valve turned off and on to transfer what's trapped in the lines and the HopRocket through the Therminator and into the fermenter.

The HopRocket acts as my trub filter. A pump would simplify the process; but, gravity does work.

 

[Soviet]

Hi Soviet,

Are you perhaps using a good deal of adjuncts - like oats or rye?

They tend to cloudy up the beer quite a fair bit.

By the way - BioFine works very well as a fining; gotta watch out for the expiration date though.

Progress update on my clarity problems: this was a simple yeast in suspension problem. Protein rests didn't seem to help. I went through just about every fining agent (polyclar/diverganF, gelatin, both combined, filtration with various nominal micron ratings) Here's the verdict:

1. Gelatin sucks (unless you use some high grade bloom 200+ or something). Here's why: you have to prepare it in a "sweet spot" of temperature so you don't denature the collagen. You have to wait for it to bloom. It's hard to keep it totally sanitized under these conditions. It doesn't resettle if disturbed in the keg. Results/clarity have been very inconsistent. If you haven't used things better than gelatin, please don't defend it.

2. Homebrew filtration sucks (so far). I still haven't tried the absolute-rated filter cartridges (super expensive), but the results of the nominal poly spun ones has been dysmal. They let through a ton of yeast even at the 1 micron rating, unless I'm doing it wrong. Which I could be. But I don't think I am.

3. Polyclar might be good at fixing chill haze caused by polyphenols, but it doesn't affect my yeast/colloidal haze.

4. Cold conditioning will get my beer clear but at 4+ weeks of cold conditioning, I don't want to wait that long.

5. Sparkalloid powder—only slightly clears yeast if added to fermenter. It might be effective for wine, I can't say the same for my beer.

6. Isinglass—WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE?!?!?! If you have access to isinglass at your local homebrew store, and it comes in the the liquid/gel form, buy it. Chill your beer to below serving temp, add the isinglass (no blooming/preparation necessary), shake your keg. Place directly in kegerator. 3 days or so later, your beer will pour brilliantly clear. And I'm talking virtually any beer. My hoppy red was pouring brilliant after multiple stage dry-hop additions. This is how finings should work. And your beer will taste so much better too.

7. I'll also be testing Clarity Ferm or Brewer's Clarex (goes in the fermenter when you pitch your yeast) to see if that might be the perfect 1-2 punch combined with isinglass for my crystal clear pilsners and kolsch beers.

 

[lylo]

Soviet, are you addin liquid isinglass? How much?

 

[bach]

Check out John Palmer's book, Chapter 6 - Yeast 6.9.3 Aeration is Good, Oxidation is Bad. I try to minimize the aeration after the boil until the wort is below 80F.

Sprouthog,

Big John says, what we all know that HOT SIDE aeration is bad.
What he means is that there should be as minimal as possible aeration or oxygen exposure of hot wort.
That is exactly what is happening when we mash in BM - the wort overflows the malt pipe and drips down the edge onto the metal pegs, from them it drops down to the wort level outside of maltpipe - can you guys hear it ?!
That is different from a regular home mash, which sits in the picnic cooler and gets stirred couple of times...

My only reassurance is the BREW Strong talk with CH. Bamforth, where he essentially says - "yeah, it happens, but as long as you store it cold you should be ok"
Anybody else has done anything to their BM to avoid dripping from the top of the malt pipe ?
I was thinking about unscrewing the top pegs, to enable the wort to rather flow down on the outside wall of the malt pipe...
Then, you have to grab it by hand to lift at the end of mash.

I have used mine for 2 years and it does a good job, even won a few medals.
One other thing apart from replacing the faucet (in on of my previous posts)
I also use additional heating coil, in order to be able to boil uncovered,when I brew lagers, because couple of master BJCP judges detected hint of DMS

 

[seefish]

Sprouthog,

Big John says, what we all know that HOT SIDE aeration is bad.
What he means is that there should be as minimal as possible aeration or oxygen exposure of hot wort.
That is exactly what is happening when we mash in BM - the wort overflows the malt pipe and drips down the edge onto the metal pegs, from them it drops down to the wort level outside of maltpipe - can you guys hear it ?!
That is different from a regular home mash, which sits in the picnic cooler and gets stirred couple of times...

My only reassurance is the BREW Strong talk with CH. Bamforth, where he essentially says - "yeah, it happens, but as long as you store it cold you should be ok"
Anybody else has done anything to their BM to avoid dripping from the top of the malt pipe ?
I was thinking about unscrewing the top pegs, to enable the wort to rather flow down on the outside wall of the malt pipe...
Then, you have to grab it by hand to lift at the end of mash.

I have used mine for 2 years and it does a good job, even won a few medals.
One other thing apart from replacing the faucet (in on of my previous posts)
I also use additional heating coil, in order to be able to boil uncovered,when I brew lagers, because couple of master BJCP judges detected hint of DMS

I'm not an expert but everything I've heard/read says that HSA is only a factor post boil, you don't need to worry about it during your mash. The oxygen will be driven out during the boil. The HSA that bamforth is talking about being unavoidable is that which happens after flameout and during the chilling process, whatever your process is, it usually involves moving the wort in some way and mixing with some oxygen.

 

[sebring96hbg]

bach,

DMS should boil off sufficiently given enough time. How long are your lager boil times on the BM? Are they at least 90 minutes? And is the kettle insulated to facilitate a more vigorous boil?

I have read that a diacetyl rest helps not only to conclude the primary fermentation but also the extra CO2 produced to during the rest serves to scrub the DMS. I would guess that a diacetyl rest is part of your lager process already.

 

[Sprouthog]

Sprouthog,

Big John says, what we all know that HOT SIDE aeration is bad.
What he means is that there should be as minimal as possible aeration or oxygen exposure of hot wort.
That is exactly what is happening when we mash in BM - the wort overflows the malt pipe and drips down the edge onto the metal pegs, from them it drops down to the wort level outside of maltpipe - can you guys hear it ?!
That is different from a regular home mash, which sits in the picnic cooler and gets stirred couple of times...

My only reassurance is the BREW Strong talk with CH. Bamforth, where he essentially says - "yeah, it happens, but as long as you store it cold you should be ok"
Anybody else has done anything to their BM to avoid dripping from the top of the malt pipe ?
I was thinking about unscrewing the top pegs, to enable the wort to rather flow down on the outside wall of the malt pipe...
Then, you have to grab it by hand to lift at the end of mash.

I have used mine for 2 years and it does a good job, even won a few medals.
One other thing apart from replacing the faucet (in on of my previous posts)
I also use additional heating coil, in order to be able to boil uncovered,when I brew lagers, because couple of master BJCP judges detected hint of DMS

Hot side aeration is not an issue during the mash or boil. As the water/wort is heated the dissolved oxygen is forced out of solution. It's during the cool down to 80F that oxygen tries to force it's way back into the solution. Cooling the wort quickly with minimal aeration to that point reduces the likelihood of oxidation.

 

[bach]

again, I do not think, that it is a big deal for us.
I was just wondering, if anybody noticed the dripping.
HSA is a recognized problem more on a commercial level,
where the beer should remain fresh on shelves after having survived
all kind of stress.
here are couple of links for info on HSA, it can happen during mashing too:
http://books.google.com/books?id=gY...v=onepage&q=hot side aeration of wort&f=false
https://byo.com/stories/item/861-hot-side-aeration--storing-hops-mr-wizard

For lager brewing I do 90 min boil, but found that even with insulation jacket
the boil is not vigorous enough when uncovered.
I have been using the copper hood, but am worried that the DMS condenses and drips back down to the kettle.
DA and acetalaldehyde can be taken care of by fresh yeast or kreusening,but from my experience DMS is harder to scrub even with CO2 bubbling through.

I think I am worrying too much

 

[cpa4ny]

Progress update on my clarity problems: this was a simple yeast in suspension problem. Protein rests didn't seem to help. I went through just about every fining agent (polyclar/diverganF, gelatin, both combined, filtration with various nominal micron ratings) Here's the verdict:

1. Gelatin sucks (unless you use some high grade bloom 200+ or something). Here's why: you have to prepare it in a "sweet spot" of temperature so you don't denature the collagen. You have to wait for it to bloom. It's hard to keep it totally sanitized under these conditions. It doesn't resettle if disturbed in the keg. Results/clarity have been very inconsistent. If you haven't used things better than gelatin, please don't defend it.

2. Homebrew filtration sucks (so far). I still haven't tried the absolute-rated filter cartridges (super expensive), but the results of the nominal poly spun ones has been dysmal. They let through a ton of yeast even at the 1 micron rating, unless I'm doing it wrong. Which I could be. But I don't think I am.

3. Polyclar might be good at fixing chill haze caused by polyphenols, but it doesn't affect my yeast/colloidal haze.

4. Cold conditioning will get my beer clear but at 4+ weeks of cold conditioning, I don't want to wait that long.

5. Sparkalloid powder—only slightly clears yeast if added to fermenter. It might be effective for wine, I can't say the same for my beer.

6. Isinglass—WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE?!?!?! If you have access to isinglass at your local homebrew store, and it comes in the the liquid/gel form, buy it. Chill your beer to below serving temp, add the isinglass (no blooming/preparation necessary), shake your keg. Place directly in kegerator. 3 days or so later, your beer will pour brilliantly clear. And I'm talking virtually any beer. My hoppy red was pouring brilliant after multiple stage dry-hop additions. This is how finings should work. And your beer will taste so much better too.

7. I'll also be testing Clarity Ferm or Brewer's Clarex (goes in the fermenter when you pitch your yeast) to see if that might be the perfect 1-2 punch combined with isinglass for my crystal clear pilsners and kolsch beers.

Interesting observations.

Unfortunately, isinglass is not available in my neck of the woods.

I typically use whirfloc in the kettle and BioFine post-fermentation.

I am tempted to try agar-agar. Apparently, unlike gelatin it doesn't require cold temperatures to "jelly-fy".

Clarity Ferm somehow didn't give me good results, despite being fairly expensive.

 

[Sprouthog]

again, I do not think, that it is a big deal for us.
I was just wondering, if anybody noticed the dripping.
HSA is a recognized problem more on a commercial level,
where the beer should remain fresh on shelves after having survived
all kind of stress.
here are couple of links for info on HSA, it can happen during mashing too:
http://books.google.com/books?id=gY...v=onepage&q=hot side aeration of wort&f=false
https://byo.com/stories/item/861-hot-side-aeration--storing-hops-mr-wizard

For lager brewing I do 90 min boil, but found that even with insulation jacket
the boil is not vigorous enough when uncovered.
I have been using the copper hood, but am worried that the DMS condenses and drips back down to the kettle.
DA and acetalaldehyde can be taken care of by fresh yeast or kreusening,but from my experience DMS is harder to scrub even with CO2 bubbling through.

I think I am worrying too much

Ok, I understand what you're saying. I haven't noticed dripping but will pay attention to it in the future. I haven't noticed any dms but I'm at sea level so I don't have problems with the boil. I boil over if left covered.

Worry is good that means you care about your process and product. That's what makes your beer good. Cheers.

 

[ShakaZuluXI]

Well, my first brew day with the 20L is done. Started at 10 am, and just finished with final cleanup at 4pm. So 6 hours total for my first run...not too shabby. This thing is amazing. I decided to go with a Northern Brewer all grain kit for my first brew. Used their Rye Stout kit. A very simple recipe with about 9.5lbs of grain and a single addition of warrior hops at 60 min. Ended up with about 23L and OG of 1.050. I am also trying out the Speidel 30L fermenter for the first time instead of a standard carboy, so we will see how that goes. I can't thank all the previous contributors to this thread enough...as your wealth of knowledge made using this Braumeister a piece of cake. Even though it was my first brew day....it actually didn't feel like it, as it seems like I already have all of this experience I have obtained vicariously through you Braumeister pioneers here. Cheers!

 

[IL1kebeer]

Im sure that this has probably been answered, but can you use a non-Speidel airlock in their stopper. Their oversized airlock would make it impossible for me to fit in my fermentation chamber by a an inch or two.

 

[pjk49202]

Has anyone replaced the fine sieve screens on their 50l BM? The edges of my screens are getting very frayed and I would like to change them out before they get too bad. Thanks!

 

[Soviet]

Soviet, are you addin liquid isinglass? How much?

Yes, liquid form. It comes in single dose packets for a 5 gallon batch. They cost about $1.50 american at my local shop.

For lager brewing I do 90 min boil, but found that even with insulation jacket
the boil is not vigorous enough when uncovered.
I have been using the copper hood, but am worried that the DMS condenses and drips back down to the kettle.
DA and acetalaldehyde can be taken care of by fresh yeast or kreusening,but from my experience DMS is harder to scrub even with CO2 bubbling through.

I think I am worrying too much

Bach, I certainly don't think you are worrying too much. This is our craft, and we seek ever elusive perfection! I too have found that the boil is not vigorous even with the jacket, and I have been penalized for DMS by judges as well as tasted it myself. I even noticed DMS in a recent Oktoberfest that I brewed, which didn't contain as much pilsner (usually highest in SMM precursor) as some other lagers I've brewed. I've concluded that a 90 minute boil is the absolute minimum boil time for most beers on this system. As for lager beers, especially those with lots of pilsner malt should be boiled even longer. I'm experimenting with boil times as long as 120 minutes to see if I can eradicate the issue. If you think that's a long time, you're wrong. Several major commercial beers are brewed with longer boil times than two hours. However, you do need to factor in a slight color impact and melanoiden flavor impact.

Yeast itself produces DMS as part of the fermentation process, so the best remedy for DMS problems is eliminating as much SMM precursor/DMS as possible in the boil. The second best thing to do in theory is ferment at higher temperatures (I've been starting my Lagers at 46F and letting them rise to 52), but since the DMS problem remains, I will experiment with slightly higher lager temps, starting at 50F and rising to 55 or so. A more vigorous, faster fermentation is said to off-gas all sorts of byproducts like sulfur and DMS. This is why Ales rarely have the DMS issues Lagers have. Hopefully I can find the right balance of clean, esterless lager fermentation that also scrubs more sulfur and DMS out of my beer. I'll report back on my findings as I do. Brew strong everybody.

 

[rbdanley]

Im sure that this has probably been answered, but can you use a non-Speidel airlock in their stopper. Their oversized airlock would make it impossible for me to fit in my fermentation chamber by a an inch or two.

Somewhere in this thread I remember seeing someone who put the spigot that comes with the fermenter on top and attached a blow off tube to the open spigot. You might give that a try.

 

[rbdanley]

For lager brewing I do 90 min boil, but found that even with insulation jacket
the boil is not vigorous enough when uncovered.

I think I am worrying too much

I use a water bucket heater, also called a heat stick, during my boils. I got it on Amazon. Query "heat stick". The boil becomes quite vigorous.

 

[pfgonzo]

Im sure that this has probably been answered, but can you use a non-Speidel airlock in their stopper. Their oversized airlock would make it impossible for me to fit in my fermentation chamber by a an inch or two.

Go to your LHBS and get a DRILLED No. 9 stopper. Fits the top of the Speidel and a standard 3-piece airlock. I find the drilling on Speidel's stock red stopper was too big for a standard airlock, hence the replacement.

Shaves an inch off the height.

 

[IL1kebeer]

Go to your LHBS and get a DRILLED No. 9 stopper. Fits the top of the Speidel and a standard 3-piece airlock. I find the drilling on Speidel's stock red stopper was too big for a standard airlock, hence the replacement. Shaves an inch off the height.

Thanks

 

[brewbush]

Question for you all,
Has anyone tried putting a stainless scrub pad between the coils and the outflow at the bottom of their BM?

I would leave it in for the entire mash/boil cycle....would that work?

I am thinking of ways to try to eliminate more trub from getting into the bucket.

 

[Sprouthog]

Question for you all,
Has anyone tried putting a stainless scrub pad between the coils and the outflow at the bottom of their BM?

I would leave it in for the entire mash/boil cycle....would that work?

I am thinking of ways to try to eliminate more trub from getting into the bucket.

I use pellet hops, whirlpool and strain through a double ss strainer set over primary. Strainer catches any hops and hops seem to catch a lot of the other stuff. You could add a cheese cloth or something else with smaller mesh but it does clog quicker. Very little trub in the primary.

 

[fy0d0r]

Hello fellow homebrewers !
I've been reading this thread a lot and own 50L Braumeister now.
While having vast experience in Igloo/Stainless Pot setup, I have couple of questions/concerns around Braumeister, which I hope to address with your help:

1. Efficiency.
I've done a few brews with the Braumeister and was unable to reach anything higher than 65% (Actual Mash System Efficiency calculated by ProMash), while I was always getting around 80% in Igloo.

As the ingredients are the same, I can only blame the mill gap setup.
I have Crankandstein 2D mill and was always using 0.6 millimeters gap (0.025") for Igloo brews.
After trying the same gap for Braumeister I've got bad circulation and low efficiency.
After reading this thread I've noted that Braumeister require more coarse mill for better efficiency.
Then I've tried to set 1.1 mm (0.043") during the next brew. The circulation was fine, but efficiency still around 65%.

What would be the best Crankandstein 2D mill gap to set up for Braumeister ?

2. Minimal Brew Volume in 50L
My Fermenter fits 30L of wort, so ideally I'd like to end up with somewhat around 32-35L of finished wort after boiling (to save some for starter and carbonation).
While I have an optional 20L tube, it won't fit more than 6kg malt which will only allow to brew around 23L (assuming 65% efficiency)

What is the minimal size of the brew that can be done in 50L (without 20L tube) not to have significant level wort level difference inside and outside the inner tube (limiting the flow and efficiency) ?

Thanks

 

[Sprouthog]

Hello fellow homebrewers !
I've been reading this thread a lot and own 50L Braumeister now.
While having vast experience in Igloo/Stainless Pot setup, I have couple of questions/concerns around Braumeister, which I hope to address with your help:

1. Efficiency.
I've done a few brews with the Braumeister and was unable to reach anything higher than 65% (Actual Mash System Efficiency calculated by ProMash), while I was always getting around 80% in Igloo.

As the ingredients are the same, I can only blame the mill gap setup.
I have Crankandstein 2D mill and was always using 0.6 millimeters gap (0.025") for Igloo brews.
After trying the same gap for Braumeister I've got bad circulation and low efficiency.
After reading this thread I've noted that Braumeister require more coarse mill for better efficiency.
Then I've tried to set 1.1 mm (0.043") during the next brew. The circulation was fine, but efficiency still around 65%.

What would be the best Crankandstein 2D mill gap to set up for Braumeister ?

2. Minimal Brew Volume in 50L
My Fermenter fits 30L of wort, so ideally I'd like to end up with somewhat around 32-35L of finished wort after boiling (to save some for starter and carbonation).
While I have an optional 20L tube, it won't fit more than 6kg malt which will only allow to brew around 23L (assuming 65% efficiency)

What is the minimal size of the brew that can be done in 50L (without 20L tube) not to have significant level wort level difference inside and outside the inner tube (limiting the flow and efficiency) ?

Thanks

I have a 20L, my lowest efficiency was 73% on a day I had circulation problems. Geysers and multiple high spots in the wort rising through the mash. Water is always the same with 5.2ph and a grind of .45. The only difference was circulation. Have you tried rice hulls? Can you see high stops in the wort even if you don't have geysers?

I've never had low efficiency with a smooth wort surface while mashing.

 

[fy0d0r]

and a grind of .45. The only difference was circulation. Have you tried rice hulls? Can you see high stops in the wort even if you don't have geysers?

Thanks, do you mean 0.045" ?
I was planning to do Hefeweizen with 51% wheat malt this weekend so will try adding some rice hulls to check.

Haven't seen any high spots nor geysers except for the first try when I've packed too much malt to the short tube.

Will also try to add 5.2 stabilizer to ensure right PH (was not using it in Igloo though)

 

[Sprouthog]

Thanks, do you mean 0.045" ?
I was planning to do Hefeweizen with 51% wheat malt this weekend so will try adding some rice hulls to check.

Haven't seen any high spots nor geysers except for the first try when I've packed too much malt to the short tube.

Will also try to add 5.2 stabilizer to ensure right PH (was not using it in Igloo though)

You're right, .045.

"I always use rice hulls in every batch. A small amount 1/4 pound for all grains - 1/2 to 3/4 pound when using wheat, rye, corn, or rice. It only takes one session with the fountain to teach that lesson!" Quoted from Makomachine post #1590.

I've had no problems when using his guideline and he uses a 20L. You'll need to double the amounts making 50L.

Hope that helps.

 

[brautim]

What is the minimal size of the brew that can be done in 50L (without 20L tube) not to have significant level wort level difference inside and outside the inner tube (limiting the flow and efficiency) ?

Thanks

All you would have to do to determine this would be to pump water around the system with the 50L malt pipe in place, then top up until the water flows over the tube and the elements are covered, then adjust for malt absorbtion, then measure the amount of water in there.

You don't state what OG your wort is for the short malt pipe, the biggest I've done so far is 24L @ 1.057 with just over 6Kg of grain at my 80% mash efficiency, this produces a ~5.5% beer . If you shoot for a lower abv beer you could either sparge with more or top up the boil to get more volume.

Using my figures a water top-up to 32L without sparge would give me OG 1.043 and with a sparge you could probably extract a few more points, so it would depend on how big you want the beer to be.

The alternative method would be to mash with the 50L pipe and maybe boil down to volume to get a higher OG, but then that would also depend on the amount of minimum mash water you could use

Let us know how you get on.

 

[Malloy]

Couple of quick questions.

1: I don't have my own mill (my local store grinds for ~5$), but what gap would you Guys suggest?

2: Rice hulls, I've run 6kg (20L) brews with no geysers, but I'm considering trying out hulls to see if I can get better flow. How would one distribute them with the rest of the grains?

Cheers,

 

[fy0d0r]

Guys,

Thanks a lot for your comments.

I'm planning to do Hefeweizen with 51% wheat malt this weekend.

I'll set up the mill at 0.04" (1mm) gap and will add 45L water per 9KG (20lbs) malt plus about 3/4 lbs rice hulls (don't have any more) plus some 5.2 stabilizer to ensure proper PH.

Assuming adsorbtion rate of 1:1 (Liters per kilogramm) I should end up with 36L of pre-boil wort, will do some sparging depending on the actual gravity.

Mixing rice hulls with milled malt should't be an issue while they are dry.

 

[leosardinha]

First of all I would like to thank all that has contributed over this 228 page thread.

I've know this thread for about 6 months and it definitely made me make my decision into buying this amazing system. And now I've finally read it since the start.

I have a direct fire 3 vessel Keg system in Brazil but as I brew alone, I was getting tired or lazy to wash a ton of things(Specially the heavy kegs) after a 8 hour brewday.

So I took advantage of being living temporally in Europe to buy it for about 30% the price I would pay in Brazil.

I've been also in contact with DeGarre for some tips!

I still have some long months until I go back home for good and will be finally able to brew on it, but this thread has helped me to control my anxiety hehe

I have a couple questions:

1) I bought the 50L version and I am planning to brew mostly with the shorter malt pipe, has anyone videos or pictures of their brews with the shorter malt pipe? I haven't found it anywhere...

2) What is the height between the top of the kettle to the heating rod on the 50L braumeister, the reason is I am planning to get a custom made hop spider from arbor fabricating.

thanks to all!

 

[Sprouthog]

Couple of quick questions.

1: I don't have my own mill (my local store grinds for ~5$), but what gap would you Guys suggest?

2: Rice hulls, I've run 6kg (20L) brews with no geysers, but I'm considering trying out hulls to see if I can get better flow. How would one distribute them with the rest of the grains?

Cheers,

1. Gaps are being set between .035 to .045 as long as you get good circulation.

2. Mix rice hulls into crushed grains prior to adding it to the water.

 

[dinnerstick]

2. Mix rice hulls into crushed grains prior to adding it to the water.

can i ask everyone something i've been wondering for a while but have never got around to asking... i have never seen rice hulls anywhere in europe so i have never used them, but i can get oat hulls (/husks), which i use as you would rice hulls in a high wheat % mash. they are really big and floaty, and when i dough in they bob up to the surface no matter how well i mix them in with the grains. i'm sure they do a fine job of keeping the mash very loose in the top few cm of the malt tube during circulation, but the rest...?? are rice hulls similar or do they behave better in the BM??